Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler New Axiom Sub!

Saw the newsletter and the new sub. Very nice! Everytime I try to quell my upgrade-itis, I keep seeing more stuff...

I know exactly what you mean. I have to refrain myself when thumbing through any HT publication. It's like sickness

13Hz!?!

That is "bowel shaking" bass.

How big are these puppies in relation to an M60? Are they taller (obviously somewhat wider)?

And the new "little" guy - its response is surprisingly low for a "cube" model subwoofer isn't it?

Anyway - I love the clean look of the 600. In a horizontal position, it could pass as a mutant center channel (as pictured in the website promo)...

This all begs two questions in my mind...

(1) Exactly how much and how loud does our bass need to be? I ask only because my STF-2 gets too loud and too aggressive at fairly low volumes, making my movie watching unpleasant at times. I have to keep it dialed down a bit to make sure that its calibrated to my desired listening level. I just can't imagine needing more (I can imagine wanting more on the other hand).

(2) Is this what Axiom has been up to for the last year plus? Is this why we haven't seen anything coming out to complement other lines (like in-wall or sattelite/sub systems)? It seems to me like Axiom has finally dug its way out of the hole and will once again be a contender in the quality sub group - of course, you'll still be paying a fairly hefty price for both new models. Their use of the DSP circuitry to ensure that the sub works optimally makes me think that they might be able to do something on the otehr end of teh spectrum using this technology (to compete for our wives' favor and produce a "nearly invisible" home theater) to blow BLOSE out of the water!

Exciting stuff.

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(1) Exactly how much and how loud does our bass need to be?

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Geez, Adrien... where have you been the last 15 years? Bass needs to be at least 40x as powerful as mids and highs. The kids like to have their McDonalds liquified in their colons and their junk jiggled. Bass extension is the new high-water mark for KeWl.

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(2) (like in-wall or sattelite/sub systems)

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I seem to remember Alan covering the in-wall thing earlier in a thread that went off from outdoor speakers to in-wall. I'd hate to misquote him (after he was just complaining about being misquoted)... but I believe he said they found enclosures that fit into 2x4 stud cavities too limiting for fidelity?!?

As for sub/satellite systems... don't make me get a rolled up newspaper! *laughs*

Bren R.

I listened to a Dead Can Dance disc at the local Magnolia (hi-fi shop), and they had a VERY large and pricey Rel subwoofer in the mix. Holy shnikes! A big bad sub pressurizes a room. It's really amazing. Obviously you don't need it to hear a bass guitar. It's for all the sub-level background noise. From my experience, it really can transform a listening experience.

I just need to figure out how 1) I can afford an EP600, and 2) how do I convince Roger we need one.

I hesitate to post this, but there is a thread about the new subs going unraveling over at the AVS forum. I'm amazed at the guy who, having never heard the 600, is convinced that either an SVS PB2 Ultra or 3 HSU VTF-3s (for the same price) will "clobber" it.

Now, I'm ASKING. PLEASE don't go over there and start shooting flames. What will benefit Axiom the most is the thread staying up, and the subs being discussed rationally, and calmly. If you feel your hackles going up, that's the time to NOT post.

I hear you. Start saving now, that's what I'm starting to do. It makes it less painful in the long run.
Convincing Roger may be more difficult, I don't know. This is where I would have an honest talk and explain how much you really really need and want it. I would try to have some imaginative and witty answers prepared for the questions that will come up.

Good Luck!

Tom

Yes, they did slam Axiom. But these are just regular non-technical posters that are speculating or assuming. We all know what it means to “assume” .Without hearing one of these subs, it would be wise for them to shut their mouths and go on with their lives.

End Rant

Tom

Jack,
I saw that thread and was tempted to post only because he starts with


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For the record... Axiom speakers sound awful



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Odd he thinks that way for 2 reasons. Has he ever heard Axioms full line? I also find it odd based on the fact that this is his system:

Mains: Monitor Audio GR-60s
Rears: Monitor Audio GR-10s
Center: Monitor Audio Gold Center
Subwoofer: Velodyne DD-18
DVD Player: Pioneer Elite 59Ai
Receiver: Pioneer Elite 59TXi
Conditioner: PS Audio P-1000
TV: Sony XBR-950 LCD Projection
Cables: Nordost Flatline

I can rip apart a few things in his system but I won't. What got me was the Monitor's.......yes even the Gold's (Awesome speaker by the way!) don't sound that different then the Axioms. I'm not saying there the same at all and yes I would take the Golds over the Axioms to, but I don't think there is enough of a difference to rule one as junk and the other not. Hell I run MA's to now and would never say the Axioms sound awful.

Yeah, when I saw "For the record... Axiom speakers sound awful," I was a little irritated, but at least he finished that sentence with "IMHO," which diffused my ire (or should that be de-fused). He wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way if he'd just said "I don't like the Axiom sound."

It was nice that two other guys, including an AVS moderator, stepped in and said, "For the Record I love the way the Axioms Sound."

I agree with NH.
From the Monitor Audios i've heard, they share some similar character sound with Axiom. Oddly enough i actually preferred the Monitors myself, but not enough so to change my Axioms out and pay the extra premium.

I like the approach the last poster presented:
"While it would be nice if they toned down some of the hype, I wish more manufacturers would post response curves with details of the measurement condition."
He must not know much about the type of work Axiom does on their speakers at the NRC, let alone the measurements posted by Soundstage.
As for the hype, well, they have to sell their products somehow. Nothing wrong with a couple of adjectives here and there.

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I like the approach the last poster presented:

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That was Mark Seaton of Contrabass fame. He's a "heavy hitter" in the sub world. He posts just about everywhere, and I've always found him straightforward, knowledgeable, and accurate.

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I agree with NH.

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Ok what's going on here? First BrenR agrees with me on something and now you!!!!! If you guy's keep this up it's going to go to my head!

NH, I don't agree!
Happy now?

Don't burst my bubble there buddy! :-)

That was Brian "Bighead8che" on AVS... Based on the port size and cabinet volume, the "600" could be QUITE formidable. It will have an upper teens tuning frequency with a minimum of EQ. required... It may well match a PB2-Ultra in performance, and is enough to ALMOST make me wish I had not quit reviewing...

... and you spelled ingenious wrong.

Bren R.

Smart$ss!!!!! ....but your right! I will fix!

Capn',
For a picture of the prototype standing next to the M80, see this link.

Oh, and you spelled "your" wrong.

Grammar was never a strength. That is why I'm so thankful that I have 2 proof readers that work for me.

I don't think they would appreciate me making them proof my posts in here however! :-)

John, continuing the main topic, you used "Monitor's" and "Gold's" as possessive instead of plural Monitors and Golds as was intended. You also wrote "to" instead of too. Just trying to help you with the unhappiness.

Now, on a secondary issue, Alan's report on the new subs in the newsletter certainly made for interesting reading. If Alan could describe the function and adjustment procedure for the "Boost" control on the amp panel(remove, flat, half, full)it would be additionally informative.

I think it's pick on NH day!

No such thing as bad publicity, but that guy saying Axioms sound "awful" burns me up.
I'll bet he really has Tara-lab wires and just changed his equipment bio to avoid embarassment.

Just checked out the horizontal EP600 in Ian & Amie's set-up. That is one seriously huge screen to dwarf a sub of that size! I thought it was a VP150 at first.

Hey,hey,hey 3 in a row.
The HT Wizard needs updating - it recommended dual EP350s instead of one of the new subs.

can that sub hit -THE BROWN NOTE?

I believe it might be able to when room loaded.13hz right?

That would make it one sh!tty sub.

I was going to ask. Brown note? What's that?

Need one change their underpants after hearing it?

jag

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I think it's pick on NH day!

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Evrybodyiessas pickingg onn mee. Sumbody maken stopp nuw beforre i get em mad. lol :-)

Let em pick! I know my grammar sucks and I don't care. If folks want to point it out, have at er!.............but I give as good as I get, so some of you good old boy's remember that and I really do hope you take as well as you give! :-)

Interesting questions Capn_Pickard.

Just how much base does one need? Would the better performance of these new subs over the HSU's truly justify their cost? Anyone?

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Their use of the DSP circuitry to ensure that the sub works optimally makes me think that they might be able to do something on the otehr end of teh spectrum using this technology (to compete for our wives' favor and produce a "nearly invisible" home theater) to blow BLOSE out of the water!

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How about applying this DSP technology to produce perfect ruler flat freq response for all the Axiom speakers. Perhaps this is what Axiom has in store for their Anniversary Release...?

Hmm, I haven't even got all my Axioms yet and I'm already suffering from upgrade-itis.

Jag

Michael, if you check this thread, especially Alan's replies, it might indicate how the idea for the new Axiom subs was born.

So perhaps that's why the EP600 in room freq response only goes down to 13Hz. Beyond this it could get REAL DANGEROUS!

It could be quite the "prank" to tune an EP600 into this range and let those AVS forum folks slaging Axiom have a good listen. I bet they'd change their tune...

Jag

Had to post a couple of pics . . . Alan shot them chez Colquhoun last night.

Father and Son:



M80s and EP600

Just lovely.

Gosh dang that thing is huge!

You don't think it was too 'hype-y'?

Nope. When can I order one? I can't get over how big that thing is. WOW!!!!!

Bah, poo poo on their hypey comments Amie.
You are a speaker manufacturer. It is your right to use adjectives galore.
Heck if you didn't, the audiophiles would never buy your products.

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My goodness! It dwarfs the M80...

Just a quick question (hype-y-ness related - sort of)

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The Cleanest Loud Bass. The EP600 plays louder than a live performance at Carnegie Hall - an amazing 122 dB!

Anechoic Response +/- 1.5dB 17-100 Hz
Anechoic Response +/- 3dB 16-100 Hz

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At what distance and frequency is this 122 dB C rating taken? Also, when you say down to 17 Hz +/- 1 dB, some people would take that to mean that it can do 121 dB C Weighted at 17 Hz and 119 dB C at 16 Hz. Much more useful would be a graph or chart of maximum output at various frequencies (a-lá Tom Nousaine).

I think that elaborating on that would prevent people from thinking it's 'hype-y' because there is data to back it up.

I can't wait for the glowing reviews on these babies. I will be upgrading soon!

The EP500 looks TINY next to it's daddy. Wow.

where is the little daughter with her mom? their mother must have carried them well. so tell us, what is the gestation period of a sub anyway?

Scary part is that thing is about the same size as my SVS.

I want that EP500. Man, I get enough complaints about the output of my sub right now.

Hey I just noticed on the Axiom page that these are now available for pre-order! Who is gonna be the first?

Designing that is grounds for being committed.

Play some bari sax through that and it's a weapon of brass destruction.

Bren R.

Wow, those are huge. (No comment).

I'd have that over a big cylinder anyday...

I keep looking in the corner where my teeny VTF-2 sits, and realize that EP600 would fit there nicely.

Ok, call me an instigator, but.. for $1700, I'd like at least two woofers.

I can see why they'd doubt the Axiom subs. A lot of reviews have shown the HSU and SVS models of similar and lower prices than the Axiom models to better them. While musical, they really don't go loud at lower frequencies, and the 200 watt rating for their $620 model and comments from people who've bought them on this very forum helps me believe this. This is what info I've collected reading forums, reviews, and people's comments and comparisons on them, not what I've heard, so don't take it too seriously..

I'm curious as to how well this'll perform when it comes out and people start buying it and performing comparisons. Not that I don't believe Axiom's measurements, but with careful EQing and close micing, you can get those results from almost any subwoofer. Although SOME exaggering is always expected, so I won't be disappointed or cynical if they don't live up to their hype.

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for $1700, I'd like at least two woofers

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Deal... gimme $1700 and I'll build you the Bren-o-matic sub... dual 2" woofers.

Bren R.

With a sub that big, at that price, two woofers couldn't hurt. Preferably 10" bigger than your idea.

Does kind of seem like an awful waste of space to have only one woofer on such a big box, but I'll reserve judgement until... until I dunno when.
I can't buy one at $1700 and I'll get flamed if I say "when the experts review it".

No - it doesnt seem like a waste to me. The reason being that it is a large tuned box. I heard that the port itself is 3 feet long. [Box Volume]/[Port Diameter] ratio is one of the many factors that determines tuning frequency. Let me see if I can dig up the guide for you.

Edit: I couldn't find the page I like but HERE is another.

I'd love to see a cutaway of those subs (hint, hint!) and maybe even pictures of the parts.

In other words, Ken wants to see the "nudie" version of the subs... Is there such a thing as Subwoofer fetish? lol

Oh great, we ask Axiom for better subs and they give us a freakin' Earthquake generator. THANKS A LOT!!
Now my only question is do you do measurements with an SPL or a Richter Scale? Seriously though, I can't wait to see the reviews. I might just have to save up for the EP500.

One other question. Why a USB port? *scratching head* DSP updates is my only guess.

I have the same question. Why the USB port.

2.0?

jr

Maybe Ian or Amie are big console gaming fans.

The only explanation I can think of for the USB port on the EP600 is for connecting it to a Playstation 2 while playing the game Rez.

OMG a usb port!

/bow

Control!!

Amazing possibilities!

pmbuko! You know the game Rez? I have it on my Dreamcast and love it! I haven't known more than a handful of people who have heard of that game.

EDIT: I just clicked your link! Disgusting - haha! What kind of sick-o's thought up that one?

Just thought I would clarify the large box and single woofer. In order to achieve the lowest possible frequency response the relationship of woofer diameter to cabinet size is key. Adding another woofer would mean an even larger cabinet size to achieve the same low frequency output.

The USB port allows us access to the micro processor which controls the DSP.

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The USB port allows us access to the micro processor which controls the DSP

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So you're saying that i can't plugin a Gameboy and get monster sub sound.

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"I just clicked your link! Disgusting- haha! What kind of sick-o's thought up that one?"
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Now your girlfriend will be beggin you to use your playstation! HaHa!!!

Or actually, that would be an excuse to be allowed to BUY a playstation 2 - haha.

The new Ep600 looks like a monster, and the specs are impressive. True test is for one of us to hear it. so what say you, Ep600 drawing? lol. I dont think anyone can afford to buy one This thing is even bigger than the M80, think about that one! *drooling*