Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler OT: beheading video...should one watch?

This subject raises a number of questions which are related to entertainment. The question of how our kids are being affected by all the violence they see and perform on screen, the difference and confusion between real and fictional violence, how quickly we can become desensitized to violence.

The fact is that what we see on video tapes is still just taped violence, far removed from the actual witnessing of the event. What so you think the smell is like? The feel of emotions in the room?

Having traveled some in the middle east and having many friends who have also, I think it is important to recognize that what we are getting now through the media is the extreme end of things. What we are talking about here is life in a war zone, is any war all that different or better? None that I've heard about.

And finally what effect do you think the U.S. entertainment industry has in the rest of of the world, on unsophisticated peoples? How do we look creating great scenes of slaughter and mayhem for entertainment, not to mention what is to traditional cultures, floods of depraved sexuality, greed and horror. Are we so accoustomed to these things that we can't imagine how they look to others? I can tell you they see plenty.

As horrible as the beheadings are, are the images we send out to the rest of the world really better? If you slaughtered your animals with a knife for food would these beheadings have the same impact? If in that context you saw what we watch for entertainment what would you think of our culture?

I saw that chechen beheading video sort of by accident a year or so ago. It is extremely disturbing, needless to say I don’t want to see any other beheading or like video, …once is enough. Regarding the beheadings taking place in Iraq, feeling angry after watching a video like that is totally understandable. I try to put things into perspective; US and Iraq are at WAR. Having said that doesn’t mean that in some way that horrible and barbaric act is justified nor I’m implying that they are some sort of freedom fighters from Iraq. It’s just that war will always bring the very worst in human kind. BTW: Have any of you seen the US Apache helicopter video allegedly showing the Apache crew killing what appears to be farmers in Iraq, it’s also very disturbing.

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Have any of you seen the US Apache helicopter video allegedly showing the Apache crew killing what appears to be farmers in Iraq, it’s also very disturbing.

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I've seen the video, but it wasn't farmers. The Apache was apparently firing upon a group of insurgents as they were leaving a mosque. Somebody at work actually forwarded it with the subject "wrong place at the wrong time." sicko.

I saw one of those damn videos too. I haven't been the same since. A friend of mine sent me a link, I was curious and I didn’t think it would bother me. However I regret that I was very wrong. It’s been two weeks now and I still haven’t been able to shake the disturbing event. It is no doubt the most violent and barbaric disregard to human life I have seen.
I don’t think we “owe it to our selves” to see the videos. Most people get it when they read the paper or watch the news.
The terrorists are trying to get into our heads. They have succeeded with these videos. They are our enemies and will do what ever it takes to see us completely destroyed. This video was meant for us to see, IMO. They are trying any tactic they can to ruin our lifestyle. I may not agree with what is going on in Iraq, however I am very thankful that it’s happening on their soil and not our own.
I also went through a stage that gave me a severe attitude toward that ethnic group, I feel better knowing that I’m not the only one that’s pissed off.
Anyway, if you haven’t seen it, don’t. It will make you mentally and physically ill.

I think that out of respect to the families, we shouldn't be watching these videos at all. Those guys screaming as their heads are sawed off were somebody's babies once - rocked to sleep and read to. Really terrible culture over there. Blow up 35 Iraqi children to accomplish what?
JT, why not join the debate in the politics thread?

Hey,

Yeah, I thought about discussing this on the political thread, but I really wanted to isolate this one particular issue from all the other political rant, because it's just affected me so much these past few days. Even though I went on my own little anti-Bush rant, I didn't really want this topic to devolve into a Kerry vs. Bush debate where everybody either tries to sound like some smartass John Stewart wannabe or just rehashes the same tired diatribes we've heard from both sides.

Like some you, it's been four days and I still can't get that video out of mind! I've looked at pretty explicity gross stuff before (like the time my friends got me to check out consumptionjunction.com or one of those "Faces of Death" videos), but it was more than just the gruesomeness of the scene. It was sheer evil such that I have never witnessed before. If they had just shot the guy in the back of the head, I could've handled that, but the excrutiangly methodical way in which they murdered this man was more than I could bear. Yeah, I know this stuff happens in the world, but there's still something different about actually seeing it. By the way, the one I saw was Eugene Armstrong's execution, not that it matters.

I'm a pretty emotionally stable guy, so I've been surprised at how disturbed I've been. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that was gullible enough to think I could watch it and not be rather traumatized. It really pisses me off that some people are pressuring us to watch these videos. Most of those folks seem to be strongly pro-war, and they think that by watching these videos and realizing how terrible our enemy is, we'll be more in favor of Bush and the Iraqi occupation. By like some of you said, that's exactly what the terrorists want us to do, and to live in fear as a result. As for the war, I don't think any of us are against fighting terrorism and taking every single one of those bastards out. What we disagree on is the strategy--not the final goal. Watching these videos hasn't changed my opinions one bit on that issue. The only thing the video has done is strengthen my view that diplomacy and concessions will NOT work with terrorists, it will only strengthen them (and don't you think Kerry knows that?). I didn't need to see one of those videos to come to that conclusion.

Anyway, keep chiming in, no matter what your views are! I for on will totally respect you whether you're pro-Bush or pro-Kerry. It's just really interesting to hear what others' responses have been to these videos and their own viewpoints on the matter.

-JT

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I'm a pretty emotionally stable guy, so I've been surprised at how disturbed I've been.

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Be glad your disturbed! Take comfort from it. I'd be a lot more worried if I watched it, and then slept like a baby. I'm sorry you've had to go through this. I'm a Viet Nam veteran and believe me, I'm not gonna watch it. Been there, done that.

Hey Mark,

In response to your quote:

"As horrible as the beheadings are, are the images we send out to the rest of the world really better? If you slaughtered your animals with a knife for food would these beheadings have the same impact? If in that context you saw what we watch for entertainment what would you think of our culture?"

I understand what you're saying. We do glorify violence in our culture; we sensationalize it on the news and in the movies. That's an unfortunate quality in our culture. But in all respect, I don't think you can compare fake over-the-top violence in Hollywood films or video games or instantly and painlessly killing a cow so we can eat our Big Macs to kidnapping innocent men, slowly sawing their heads off while they're still alive, video taping it and sending the footage out to the world. One thing, there's the question of intent. It's a lot worse when you're intentionally seeking to horrify another culture. It's different when you accidentally do it because you don't realize that another culture holds cows as sacred or something. Also, I don't think you can hold the life of an animal as equal to that of a person. Yes, I'm a big environmentalist and I want to protect our wildlife, but I just can't compare people with cows and chickens. Finally, I'm sure that many of our Hollywood movies probably are very offensive and disturbing. That's why we give them ratings and warn people not to watch them if they're turned off by that stuff. Also, it's not REAL. If a culture is so primitive and simple that they can't tell the difference, then they probably don't own TV's and VCR's anyway and so can't watch those movies, so it's a moot point.

So, to answer your question: yeah, it's A LOT WORSE to kidnap innocent men, saw their heads off, video tape it, and send the footage out to the world than it is to film Friday the 13, pt. XXVI while chowin' down on some Chicken McNuggets.

I have not seen any of the beheading videos. It had occurred to me that I could probably find a link and watch one, but I just didn't feel any desire to do so. It's an interesting question, though, and reading it here has made me ask myself why I haven't watched them, or why I think I shouldn't. After thinking about it, I can come up with several reasons. At least some of these have been my reasons, though not so completely verbalized in my mind. Others may not have been in my mind before thinking about this.

1. I don't need to see it to understand it. I can imagine the victim's terror and the brutality of the act - what a horrible way to spend one's final moments of precious life on this planet. I don't need to actually see it to appreciate the meaning of it. I did watch many times the videos of the jets crashing into the World Trade Center, and those buildings collapsing. Not quite as personal, but that was watching thousands of people dying. In a way, though, I think I did need to see that to understand it. It was just too big, too far removed from any normal reality, to fully grasp without seeing it.

2. There's a limit to how much sadness and brutality I want to absorb into my consciousness. Perhaps one day there will be internet videos of the butchery in the Sudan, of gang rapes in American cities, of 35 children getting blown up in Iraq, of torture in Chinese prisons, of a mob killing in Russia, of forced prostitution in Thailand, etc., etc. (the list could go on for a long, long time). We live in a world where all these things occur, but I don't want to see those videos, either. Some of those events we can try to do something about, some of them we haven't much of a chance. My personal mental and spiritual balance requires that I nurture positive emotions and outlook. That doesn't mean denying all the horrible things that go on, but it may mean not going out of my way to absorb them in ways that are shocking and disturbing for days or weeks.

3. I find it more respectful to the victims and their families not to watch. It is an intensely personal event to those persons. I'm somewhat uncomfortable about a human being's last moments before and during a barbaric murder being available for me to watch in the comfort of my home. I doubt I would like it if the victim were my son or daughter and I could overhear conversations in the grocery about strangers watching the video of my child's death, or come across a discussion on the internet. If a member of my family were brutally murdered, I wouldn't want the autopsy photos printed in the newspaper.

4. The terrorists want us to watch them. Part of their audience is no doubt their own supporters, but I believe they also seek to inflict fear on us through these videos. I don't want to give them that satisfaction, and I also don't want to live my life in fear. I believe that we have succumbed to fear of terrorism to too great an extent in this country. We can't let it paralyze us. We are in an ugly war that is going to last a long, long time, and I believe there WILL be additional successful terrorist attacks within the U.S., no matter how hard or how intelligently our government and we try to prevent them. It is just a fact. We need to accept that and continue on with our lives, or they will win. I recall hearing that a North Vietnamese leader was interviewed during the war and asked how such a small impoverished country could possibly hope to defeat the world's greatest military power. His response was something like, "They will kill many of us. We will kill some of them. They will tire of it first."

5. I don't want to have to wonder about my motives for watching it. I certainly don't believe I have a responsibility as an American to watch it (discussed more below). Why would I watch it? I don't want to have to ask myself whether any part of my motives for watching it included morbid curiosity, excitement, entertainment, rage, prejudice, or any other such emotion that could possibly be triggered by such a video, but I really don't want to nurture or face in myself. If someone gave me the opportunity to watch a "snuff film" and told me that I couldn't really understand how men brutalize women until I saw it, would I wonder if I watched it whether some hidden part of me found it arousing like the sickos who make those films? I don't feel a need to take a journey into the heart of darkness.

As for someone on talk radio suggesting we have a responsibility to watch these videos, I'm guessing that this might be conservative talk radio (not sure if there's any other kind), and the speaker wants folks to watch them so that the videos will affect what the public believes should be done in the war on terror, in Iraq, or in the voting booth in four weeks. Perhaps an all-out effort to track down and kill every single terrorist in the world is the best tactic. Perhaps not, or perhaps not to the exclusion of other tactics. Terrorism is a complex problem, and I personally do not think that basing our course of action in any significant measure on the very visceral feelings of disgust and horror that arise from watching these videos is necessarily the wisest way to proceed. We need to try harder to understand our enemy in order to win this war more quickly. If we just plunge ahead on the basis of gut reactions, I anticipate a lot of errors in judgment, where our actions may prove to not only be ineffective, but counterproductive. I'm outraged by terrorism, but fighting it effectivly requires cool heads and careful analysis and planning. Does watching these videos help with that?

I agree 100%. I usually pick and choose things I think I might be able to absorb without any negative effects. This time I was very wrong and have learned a lifelong lesson.
In the future, I will not be so tempted to risk contaminating my mind.
I too embrace a positive outlook and try to guard my mind from negative events such as this.

Denver, I really enjoyed your post. I think you wrote a very thoughtful and meaningful reply! I embrace the same values you do. I just couldn’t verbalize it the way you did!
Thanks!