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#63044 - 10/01/04 08:06 AM Subs: Difference between music and movies?
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11437
Loc: Central NH
OK, I have to ask a question regarding some advice that keeps popping up regarding subs, and (believe it or not!!) I'm going to keep this post shorter than 3 pages! ;>)

Frequently, the advice for a particular sub or another is based upon whether someone listens to mostly music or mostly movies. Why?

My understanding is that a sub that goes deep but booms is what people refer to as being good for movies, and one that is tight is best for music, but..... It's often said that a good speaker for music will do just as well for a movie. Accuracy in sound is the goal no matter what the source, no?

My thought is that I would always like my sub to be tight, and the deeper it goes the better it is for music AND movies.

Am I missing something in my equation?

M
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#63045 - 10/01/04 10:12 AM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
NeverHappy Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/12/03
Posts: 1424
Loc: Western Canada
This should be a good debate. There are some that feel SVS subs are better for movies vs music. I don't agree with this at all. I have heard HSU, Outlaw and a ton of other subs and my SVS does just fine with music. I honestly think that if you stay with SVS or HSU at the end of the day you will have a sub that does it all rather well.

Don't let anybody take you down the SVS subs are boomy road as it's simply not true at all.

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#63046 - 10/01/04 11:54 AM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
demasoni Offline
local

Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 206
Loc: VA, USA
people tend to prefer a faster and more accurate sub for music, monstrous bass extension and subsonic lower frequency below 20hz are not always necessary, though it's all personal preference, for movie it's safe to say either HSU or SVS should satisfied you.

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#63047 - 10/01/04 06:17 PM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
Karp Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 13
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA
I would have to say that you don't need as Much of a sub for music as you do for home theater. I have a tiny 100Wpc Mirage 8" sub that I bought a few years ago. It sounds very good, and does a wonderful job of filling in the bass down to about 30Hz or so. It will not give me room-shaking bass that I can feel across the room though.

That said, I bought a SVS-PB1-ISD. It is just as musical as the old Mirage, but it can move TONS of air when required to for movies.
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#63048 - 10/01/04 07:35 PM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
demasoni Offline
local

Registered: 09/08/04
Posts: 206
Loc: VA, USA
Karp, how come you chose the PB1 over their cylinder version? say 20-39?

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#63049 - 10/02/04 01:23 AM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5171
Loc: western canada
I agree with all that was put forth in this thread.
Any sub would be good for both although not always at the same volume level.
Type of music will depend on how large a sub one buys. For HT a larger, boomier sub is always fun for explosions and such, but unless a person really likes boomy dance music or pipe organs, they can get away with alot less for most music.

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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#63050 - 10/02/04 07:08 AM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11437
Loc: Central NH
OK, so I don't want to twist this into an "HSU vs. SVS vs. Axiom" thread, but out of curiousity, is there one sub line (from ANY manufacturer) that's particularly known for being the tightest for music?

Despite the fact that I'm probably 50/50 in my listening, I think I would gladly give up some movie deep boom for a sub that really handles some tight bass lines and drums...
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#63051 - 10/02/04 10:19 AM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5171
Loc: western canada
Mark,
Since the statement 'fast bass' is really an oxymoron (all bass flows at its physical set same speed of course), i do understand what you are getting at. Personally i've found that the tighter bass tends to come from smaller drivers. Pairing a 12" subwoofer vs. the 6" driver of the M60 as an example would provide a different level of bass sound when playing the same note. I think some ppl may refer to subs that have this character to be very 'musical'. My EP350 is great for music but the SVS i recently demoed can also play quite well, just at a lower gain setting.
I would think that the EP175 would be a very unobtrusive type of subwoofer for a music only system, but it would add nice punch, and more of it, to the low end beyond what the M60 could easily produce. I believe that the small Hsu box lineup may do the same according to reports from spiff and curtis (and others).
Just a thought.


Edited by chesseroo (10/02/04 10:20 AM)
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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#63052 - 10/02/04 11:12 AM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6027
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I thought the big attribute of a "musical" sub was supposed to be less of what some people call "overhang", ie the volume of a bass note not dropping off as quickly as the underlying electrical signal.

Without researching OR measuring any subs, and acknowledging that it has been over 25 years since I looked at any of the formulae for ported enclosures, it seems that there is an obvious tradeoff that every sub designer makes in the tuning and damping of the enclosure. If you position the resonant peak down low and have low damping you can get good bass reinforcement down to lower frequencies but any frequencies in the area of the resonant peak will tend to "overhang" more than other frequencies.

If you dampen the enclosure more (less reinforcement) you have to position the resonant peak a bit higher to keep frequency response flat (since the added peak from the enclosure is smaller) but there will be relatively less overhang since less of the sound is coming from enclosure resonance / reinforcement.

The first sub would be "better for home theater" and the second sub would be "more musical and better with fast bass", all other things being equal.

I apologize in advance if this is wrong or misleading, I'm just going on what I remember from nearly 30 years ago.

JB
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HT: M60ti/VP180/QS8, SVS PC+ 20-39, EP500
Music: M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti
Idle: M2ti, M3v4, VP100
John

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#63053 - 10/02/04 11:18 AM Re: Subs: Difference between music and movies?
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6027
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>OK, so I don't want to twist this into an "HSU vs. SVS vs. Axiom" thread, but out of curiousity, is there one sub line (from ANY manufacturer) that's particularly known for being the tightest for music?

I went with the PSB sub based on a number of views that the PSBs were among the best for musical content although perhaps a bit "weak" for HT. I hadn't really clued in that Axiom was in the sub business at the time or I probably would have gone with a (fairly similar) EP350 instead. Oh well...


Edited by bridgman (10/02/04 11:21 AM)
_________________________
HT: M60ti/VP180/QS8, SVS PC+ 20-39, EP500
Music: M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti
Idle: M2ti, M3v4, VP100
John

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