Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Lack of definition – Culprit: Cheap Amp?? Help!

I received my M22s for mains and a single m2 for my center on Thursday of last week. It was a long 2 day wait. I hooked them up, and my initial reaction was that the speakers were no nearly as bright as I thought they would be (especially after reading all of the reviews and posts). Listening to the M22s the mids are extremely smooth, and do not offend the ears. These speakers have more bass then I expected also, and it is very tight and accurate bass. The M2 as a center matches the M22s perfectly, I would recommend getting the M2 as a center with the M22s (Thanks JohnK for this advice). I thought I was over the fact that these speakers didn’t have as much clarity after day 2, but listening to these for a solid 6 days now, I’m wondering about this again. I realize that headphones are a different bear then speakers, but when I compare any recording on the M22s to my AKG K-240 headphones, the 240s are way more revealing and clear on the high end. I can pick out little things in recordings on the AKG 240’s that I still can’t on the M22s. Now, on one hand, I think the AKG’s error on having too much high end, but the M22s just don’t reveal everything in the recoding. The second concern I have is in the imaging (This is a big surprise again, considering what all I have read in the post and reviews.) For some reason the image these speakers put out is way wider then I’m used to. This isn’t necessary a bad thing, but voices and stuff that should be coming from a point between the two speakers don’t sound like they are coming from the center….I can still close my eyes, and point out were the speakers are in the room. I moved the speakers closer together, and this seems to have helped, but not solved what I’m hearing. I’m wondering if these all of these issues could be being initiated with my receiver. I’m using a Sony STR-DE 945 receiver. When listening to my headphones, I’m still using all the same components, but I’m just using the Sonys headphone jack. Granted, the amp in the Sony driving the speakers is different them its headphone amp, but this eliminates the CD-Player, ect. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated while I’m still deciding if these are the speakers for me or not.

I despise Sony audio equipment with the exception of their higher end ES stuff. Even then, the horrid reliability of non-ES equipment makes me hesitant to ever give them my money. They're receivers sound lifeless and weak to me. I've had one receiver crap out and no less than 5 Sony optical drives (Cd players, car stereos, etc) refuse to play.

Avoid them like the plague.

I agree with Semi On with avoiding Sony like the plague. They are the most unreliable stuff and have the highest prices for the cheapest quality crap.

There are several things you could do before you place blame on any of the components in your system. First, make sure your M22's are on rigid stands that elevate the tweeter to ear level. Next it is important to play with speaker placement, not only how close together the two speakers are, but your listening seat relative to them, how close walls are, and also the level of toe-in. Toe-in can help with deliniating center images and can also cut down on side wall reflections. One of the biggest improvments I made was sitting about 3 feet from the back wall instead of my back against it. Room reflections can be another cause of losing some definition. Try something simple like hanging a rug on the wall in different positions, and different walls. It really does make a difference.

Comparing your speakers to your headphones removes room acoustics from the equation. While I think it is good to have something to compare your speakers too, remember that, by their nature, headphones typically are more revealing than speakers in a room.

Have fun with it and try some things out.

Thanks for all of the responses. I have already played around with speaker placement, toe in, and the distance of my position to the speakers. I haven’t tried hanging any rugs yet, but I agree that this could help a lot (especially with imaging). I’m going to mess around with these things some more, but as I do, does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be some good receivers to look into getting. I would like the most bang for the buck. I would like something that is at least 5.1 DTS compatible. I also what it to do an exceptional job on listening to music. I use my system about 70+% music and 30-% movies. My budget is around $500 or less (less would be good, but if I HAVE to go over this to get what I want, I guess I have to). In reading the other posts I would like something that can “up-sample all video inputs to component video and output through one component monitor cable to the TV”. I didn’t realize that some amps could do this, but this would be very desirable.

No, the culprit isn't the Sony; it's your listening room. I have M22s and AKG K-501; both are excellent, but are different in the way that speakers and headphones have to be different. You'll never have the extreme clarity from speakers that good 'phones give you. The sound has bounced off your room several times with the speakers instead of going straight into your ears from about an inch away.

On imaging, a basic starting point would be with the speakers separated about as much as your distance from them and toed in so that the right tweeter points at your right ear and left at left. With a little experimenting imaging shouldn't be a problem with the M22s; mine are excellent.

For $500, your best bet would be something like the Denon AVR-1803. Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic II & DTS ES Discrete 6.1.
http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/avr18033.pdf

Though I don't believe it will upsample composite and S-video. To my knowledge (may be mistaken) the cheapest receiver that does this is the Denon 3803 at $999. But again, I may be mistaken on that.

first BFREQ,I AGREE WITH DREW8MC AND JOHNK,YOU HAVE TO
EXPERIMENT WITH UR EQUIPMENT PLACEMENT TO FIND WHAT YOUR
LOOKING FOR.COMPARING HEADPHONES AND ROOM ENVIROMENT SPEAKERS IS NOT EVEN ON "NEUTRAL GROUND"(2 TOTAL LISTENING
EXPERIENCES)
second,AS I HAVE NOTHING BUT SONY EQUIPMENT,MY EXPERIENCE
WITH IT HAS BEEN TOTAL RELIABILITY!I REALLY DON'T BELIEVE
ITS YOUR AMP CAUSING THE PROBLEM.

Hi Bfreq,

JohnK is absolutely correct. With a linear pair of headphones, the diaphragm is 1/2-inch or less from your ear canal. You will ALWAYS hear more detail from headphones than loudspeakers. Very different listening experiences. Moreover, if memory serves, the AKG K-240, based on headphone tests years ago at Canada's National Research Council, has a somewhat depressed midrange with a gentle peak in the upper treble, which will exaggerate upper-mid and high frequencies even more.

Regards,

I think your caps lock key is broken. I'll happily send you $10 for a new keyboard if it means you'll be able to type posts without screaming.