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Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71778 12/14/04 09:33 AM
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In reply to:

Now if you want to measure the output of a violin, you could say, "2x6 the strings of these violins each vibrate at the same frequency when you play a middle C, so how can you say they sound different? If you think there's a difference between a Strad and a Taiwanese violin, you've been brainwashed. Middle C is about 262 Hz, no matter which violin is producing it. We, who know it all, can accurately measure this frequency to a few parts per billion accuracy and can tell you with confidence, middle C is middle C whether you sawing on a Strad or on a knock off."


But one who believes in scientific tests could just as easily say, "2x6, although the strings of these violins each vibrate at the same frequency when you play a middle C, they sound different due to the measurable resonances caused by the differences in wood shape and design. These differences are real and are not a placebo effect because they can be seen in this sonogram. Additionally, due to the differences in cabinet shape, they exhibit different dispersion patterns which can be seen in this plot."

The fact is that while the fundamental note may be the same, the resonant frequencies will not have the same characteristics between different violins. It is like trying to compare the piano to an accordian each playing the same note.

About the differences between solid state amps, the measurable differences (while the amps are not strained) are extremely subtle at best and only tend to show up at the extremes of high and low frequencies. These deviations are never going to be close to 1 dB in any well designed SS amp when asked to produce a signal in the audible spectrum.


Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71779 12/14/04 10:44 AM
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DJ: Yes, the L/R 7.1 channel input allows DSP modes (and crossovers) to be activated. But the same's true using the CD-R inputs. I suppose this means there are ADC's there as well. Thanks.

Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71780 12/14/04 02:58 PM
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I learned something new then today. I had no clue that Marantz did the same thing Harman Kardon does. That is pretty nice (not in this specific scenario, but that is a useful feature).


Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71781 12/14/04 04:26 PM
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DJ, thanks for taking the time to craft an intelligent reply to 2x6. I would have said pretty much the same thing had I not been too busy pointing my finger and laughing.

Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71782 12/14/04 04:33 PM
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In reply to:

I would have said pretty much the same thing had I not been too busy pointing my finger and laughing.


... Or pointing at my other sig.


Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71783 12/14/04 06:07 PM
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DJ,

That has got me laughing to no end!

Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71784 12/14/04 06:22 PM
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I'm glad that some people can see the humor in it.

I'm sure in a few days I'll have about 50 PMs in my inbox all yelling at me for having it, though.


Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71785 12/14/04 06:25 PM
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In reply to:

What could be more simple than a violin? a neck, a fingerboard, pegs, some pieces of wood, some strings. How many variables do you have to deal with to explain the differences in sound between 2 violins? Fewer for certain than between solid state amps which employ different capacitors, resistors, circuit designs, transformers, transistors, materials.


Respectfully, I would submit that there could is as many variables in a violin as there could be in a solid state amp, and probably more.

For example: the type of wood used in each part of the violin - the top; the bottom; the neck; the bridge; the bracing etc. The age of the wood in each part when the tree was cut, the size of each part, the shape of each part, all of which can be different in violins by different makers.

The type of finish applied; the chemical makeup of the finish; how it is applied;, how MUCH is applied.

The type of glue used to hold the parts together; how much glue is used.

All these things, and more, can make one violin sound different from another. Yet, in the end, the difference between violins is very subtle. I would be surprised if 99.9% of the general public could tell the difference between a Stradavarius, and a lesser violin. Do they sound different? Absolutely! Different enough that the vast majority of people can tell them apart? No!


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71786 12/14/04 06:29 PM
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I LOVE it! We were having that exact same conversation over last night's steak. I mean, look at your teeth. We are designed to be omnivores.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: Adding a pre-amp to an AVR
#71787 12/14/04 08:52 PM
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Sure, but if herbivores had evolved opposable thumbs, even they could hold a knife and fork and enjoy a nice cut of meat once in a while.

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