axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 55
buff
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OP
buff
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 55 |
I'm sure there is a post somewhere here. But can anyone give thoughts on the difference in sound between these two speaker sets. Have heard the 60's but not the 50's. Again thank you to Sean for the demo.
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236 |
Everyone who's heard both pretty much agrees that the M60ti is a more detailed, cleaner sounding speaker. The M50ti is a more laid back, smoother sounding speaker.
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 138
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 138 |
Tom
Not a problem - its good to have another enthusiast visit occasionly. I found the Peter Green DVD at HMV.
Sean
Exaudio ergo cogito ergo sum
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
Sean, wrong post?
Anyway, I think Spiff is correct, the reason I believe is because on the 50 the tweeter/midrange is combined into one driver. In the 60 and 80 the tweeters and midranges are seperated. Both great speakers, I just happen to luuuuuuv the 60 though...
Randy
M60's, VP150, EP350, 4 Qs8's
Denon 2805
"don't worry about the world ending today, it is already tomorrow in Australia"
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
Strictly speaking (I don't normally nitpick, but the coffee isn't working today ) given the crossover frequencies it is probably more correct to say that the woofer and midrange are combined on the 50s. I think the crossover between woofers and mid on the M60 is pretty low, around a couple of hundred Hz so on the M60 the 5-1/2" driver carries from a few hundred to a few thousand Hz while on the M50 the 6-1/2s have to cover right up to 2500-3000 Hz.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
As the lone constantly active M50 owner (right?), someday I'm gonna have to hear some 60s, so either I can tell you all you're wrong, or spend the rest of my days quietly sobbing about clarity and soundstage.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
I don't think it's a "better/worse" or right/wrong kind of thing. As far as I know we're only talking about a dB or two in the midrange so it would probably be trivial to EQ a 60 to sound like a 50 or vice versa.
I think you would find a surprising number of people prefer the 50s. Axiom should take Alan's 22s away for a while and give him some 50s until he learns to appreciate them
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
I think that's an excellent idea!
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,270
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,270 |
Hey Kenneth and Bridgman,
Ha, ha. But I luuuv my M22s and M80s! Actually, the M50ti has a very pleasing tonal balance (now are you happy??).
Besides, it's just a few dB in the midrange. The reason the M50's midrange isn't quite as linear is that the M50's drivers are a larger diameter (6.5 inches) than the M60's dedicated midrange driver (5.25 inches). Consequently, the off-axis dispersion of the M50's woofers isn't as linear as the M60s' midrange. In other words, the M50s' woofer/midrange rolls off more quickly at the top of its range (midrange) than do the M60s. And since our subjective impression of a speaker's tonal balance through the bass, midrange and highs is formed by not just the on-axis direct sound from the speaker but by the first reflections from the side walls in most rooms, which arrive a few milliseconds after the direct sound on-axis, the overall tonal content of the M60s has just a touch more midrange content.
If you did '"near-field" comparisons of the two models, sitting really close so that you only heard the first arrivals (the direct sound minus the lateral reflections), I suspect that minor tonal difference would disappear.
Regards,
Alan Lofft, Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
I feel better now.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441 |
What, did you put the speakers right next to your couch or something?
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
>>And since our subjective impression of a speaker's tonal balance through the bass, midrange and highs is formed by not just the on-axis direct sound from the speaker but by the first reflections from the side walls in most rooms, which arrive a few milliseconds after the direct sound on-axis, the overall tonal content of the M60s has just a touch more midrange content.
Alan, thanks for stressing this point. I was reading a couple of your other posts last night and it was like a light coming on. I never understood before why anyone cared so much about off-axis response when we all tend to hog the sweet spot and sit on axis -- now it all makes sense.
Thanks for all the great info and advice.
John
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034 |
No Kenneth, You Are Not Alone! There are others of us out there, or is it "out here"? At any rate there are more of us who understand and embrace the differences.
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 55
buff
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OP
buff
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 55 |
So let me get this straight...the m60 have more mids off axis than the 50s? Correct.?
Last edited by hk900plus; 01/25/05 03:37 AM.
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034 |
Yup, that's my take on Alans' statement too. I don't know how familiar you are with the M2 M22 vs M3 debate, but they pretty well parallel the M60 M50 situation in most respects. There are performance plots published that show the on-axis and off-axis frequency responses of the two speaker types and using them as an example that hopefully isn't too much of an apples to oranges thing, they indicate that the M22 dosen't begin to fall off in off-axis response until about 10K or so, while the M3 began way back around 4K.
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 55
buff
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OP
buff
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 55 |
Well then if the mids from m22 start to fall off around 10k at what frequency do the mids from m60's and m50's start to fall off.....off-axis? Also will the db level have an effect on this process? Anyone know....Alan.
Last edited by hk900plus; 01/25/05 05:06 PM.
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Re: axiom 50 vs axiom 60
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034 |
Yes, Alan, and of course, Ian; Thank you so much for those plots given to us during the holidays showing what certainly appears to be the on-axis curves of the M50 and M60, they are greatly appreciated, and without question most helpfull. But, plots are like potato chips; nobody can digest just one. So, uh.. er.. is the whole family of plots available? (Wow, that's a lot to ask for, innit?)
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