Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3
newbie
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OP
newbie
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3 |
I am in search of recommendations for good in-wall subwoofers.
To my dismay, my favorite Xmas present, an EP175, was resoundingly rejected by my wife (I'll spare you all the gory details of her reasoning). So now that the EP is packed up, bid farewell, and trudging begrudgingly back to Axiom, I need to find its brotherly, in-wall alter ego. I'm looking for similar specs (I'm shocked as to the limited range in some of the subs on the market), and hopefully not too much greater a price (though I fully expect to fight the battle for 'better looks is going to cost us'). I'm hoping some of you out there have specific experience with some of the subs on the market, especially given the migration towards 'invisible' speakers these days.
Thanks in advance for all your help! (and here's hoping that Ian and the crew can invent the next great in-wall system for Axiom...)
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 556
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 556 |
I haven’t done any research on in-wall subs, but I suppose their performance will be limited, at best.
... an interesting note ..I think Alan mention one time of a guy that fix a couple of big divers to the wall and used the whole adjoin room as the sub ‘enclosure’, pretty cool.
~Jaime
The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 692
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 692 |
You meant "drivers" right?
WhatFurrer
"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup..."
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 556
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 556 |
... no, no I meant divers, …you see, the oxygen tank and flippers will serve as a resonant ... Argh, never mind
The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail. --Lindborg
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958 |
I think you are refering to an Inifnite baffle design. Check this one out.
I live the life I love and I love the life I live.
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236 |
Snell AMC Sub88
There're aren't a whole lot of in-wall subs available.
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,343
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,343 |
God I really did marry a wonderful woman
OK, enough silliness what you may need is an infinite baffle subwoofer.
getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
I think mwc and FordPerfect got you covered. You're going to have to be creative and probably spend more money to get performance similar to a decent box or cylinder design. My understanding is that infinite baffle designs need LOTS of power.
Here is another link - The Cult of the Infinitely Baffled.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
Here's another option. Don't know anything about these but PSB is another "ex-NRC" brother to Axiom and Paradigm with some nice products.
Couldn't you just throw a nice tablecloth over the EP175 and put your drinks on it ? Nobody would have to know it was there... as long as they didn't notice the bubbles in their drinks
http://www.psbspeakers.com/s/cs/CustomSoundInWall.html#CWS8
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39 M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1 LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
That is really to bad about the sub, I know you don't want to go into the details, but can you give us a hint? The only thing my wife hates about my Axioms is the color, she does not like the Mansfield Beech, as she says it is to light for the trim in our upstairs living/family room. The problem with that excuse is that this is only temporary. As soon as I complete the remodeling of the basement, everything is going downstairs and she won't have to worry about it amymore.
Also, I believe there was a post by Alan some time ago, talking about how it is not advised to use in-wall speakers, let alone an in-wall Sub, which I've never heard of anyway. Oh well good luck.
My Axiom Speaker Poll Page
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 47
buff
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buff
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 47 |
Earthquakesound.com has an in-wall sub. Called the THOR-10 In-wall subwoofer. MSRP $1999.00 U.S. That is the only one I have seen. But if they have one others may too. Good luck.
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,270
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,270 |
tomtuttle,
Thanks for the link. I've never heard a setup like the ones shown. I would think they'd still be subject to all the room placement/standing wave anomalies that are a given when you generate low frequencies in a room.
Anyone here ever heard one of these?
Regards,
Alan Lofft, Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 427
devotee
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devotee
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 427 |
Did you show your wife all of the Axiom custom finishes?
Sometimes bringing her into the buying process and allowing her to make decisions can cause her to be more understanding about your purchases.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/customshop.html
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
Hi Alan,
I am very interested in your observations. I have NOT heard an infinite baffle sub, and I agree that the inability to position the sub subsequent to installation seems like a fatal flaw.
I think the concept is fascinating.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,805
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,805 |
"I agree that the inability to position the sub subsequent to installation seems like a fatal flaw."
Still better than no sub at all I would think.
LIFE IS SHORT. DON'T BE A DICK.
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 273
local
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local
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 273 |
The in wall subs require making a big hole in your wall. If your wife freaked out over the little EP175, what will she think when (say) you cut a 23"x13"x4" hole in a wall? Yes when finished it can look fairly neat, but it will be a big mess beforehand.
I hate to suggest a non-Axiom solution but here are three more:
(1) Hide sub in "plain sight" as an end table. Typically this requires a down-firing sub with a finished top, like the Hsu VTF-3R: VTF-3R MkII Put a lamp or vase on top and few people will know the difference.
Alternatively maybe Axiom's custom finish shop could build an Axiom sub to a similar look.
(2) Use a small cylinder sub laid horizontally behind a couch. Bass frequencies are non directional so physical placement is less restricted. Out of sight, out of mind.
(3) Get the smallest decent sub possible and hope for the best ("look dear, it's only this big"). The Velodyne HGS-10X is an 11" cube: Velodyne HGS-10X
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31 |
Alan:
I am building one this year. I have put probably 50 or 60 hours of research into the design of the these subs. Positioning is just like for a box. Play bass tones at your listening position, check your SPL at your wall locations and pick the best location for the hole. I am going to use 4 15" drivers with a prosound amp and a BFD for equalization. I have seen many people post charts of their IBs showing flat frequency response down to less than 10 Hz. Many people in the know insist IB bass is the best you can get, unless you want to spend 10 times more money. My entire setup, including driver, amp, Behringer BFD, and construction materials will be less than $1000.
There are many threads at www.hometheatertalk.com expounding on the virtues of IB bass, in addition to the Cult, which was previously mentioned.
Pete
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31 |
"My understanding is that infinite baffle designs need LOTS of power."
Hi Tom:
Actually, they do need a bit of power, as well as multiple drivers. I am building an IB with 4 15" drivers that will require 800 watts of power (200W per woofer). However, check the watts on some box subs (which usually have only one driver) and you will see that don't really need excessive power.
After all, the EP500 has a 500 watt amplifier for one driver.
Selecting a good location before cutting the hole along with an equalizer (should use one for subs anyway) can produce great results.
Pete
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall sub
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31 |
"You're going to have to be creative and probably spend more money to get performance similar to a decent box or cylinder design."
Tom, I think you have this part backwards. You can get better performance from an IB at a fraction of the cost of a similiar box or cylinder. The downside is the hole in the wall and the DIY nature of the project. It is not "plug and play".
Pete
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
Hey Pete,
Thanks very much for the information. I like to learn.
I hope you will keep us posted with pictures and the story of your IB project!
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
Yes, pictures please! I think it's a fascinating concept.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 54
buff
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buff
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 54 |
IB is a great example of thinking "outside the box", excuse the pun
I hope to build one myself when I have my own place.
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Re: Axiom sub rejected; now in search of in-wall s
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 31 |
Tom and Ken:
I certainly will once stuff really starts to happen (probably later this spring or early summer). I stumbled across the IB concept just a couple of months ago and have found it very fascinating.
I originally discovered the concept by googling subwoofers in closets (I wanted to put a huge SVS sub in my closet because I want low base, but not the aesthetic issues of having a portable water heater in my family room). I have been hooked on the idea ever since. It has very high WAF when you finish off the opening nicely.
Pete
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