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Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80675 02/05/05 06:05 PM
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Here's my question...
Anybody else head to head these? I just tried breaking my m80s in (running for 25-50 hours of music/TV) and then taking them to a store that has the connoisseurs and I was completely unimpressed with the Axioms. Considering everyone LOVES their axioms, is there anything that might be wrong with the speakers I received or in the setup? The speakers were switched back and forth with a 1-2 second delay, in the same room, different cables (but I would not think significantly since the store sets up similar speakers in the same room, so I can't imagine using awesome cables and crappy cables on speakers that are the same price) and since they used a speaker switcher the amp, and cd player were the same. We tried 3 different cds, and two different listening positions. I was never in the know as to which speaker was playing (neither was my wife) and the salesman did his best to make sure the volumes were the same when switching (as the Energys had 8 ohms resistence to Axioms 4). Any help?

Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80676 02/05/05 06:34 PM
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What is it you don't like about the M80's? Too forward? I listened to the Connoisseur 7's and really hated them. To me, they were very congested, and muddy. In the Connoisseur series I only really liked the C-3 (and even that didn't compare to the M22ti's I bought.

Their next level up, the Veritas though are wonderful. To my ear I'd put the Axiom M60/80 up against the Veritas.

Guess it goes to show speakers are a very personal choice.

I am curious to know what it is about the Axioms you didn't like though.



Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80677 02/05/05 06:42 PM
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My first thought would be that the two speakers probably have different placement requirements; the Energy speakers would have been carefully placed by the store while the M80s were brought in for the test.

We're only guessing though without a few clues re: what you didn't like about the Axioms, ie what differences you saw between the two speakers.

I'm guessing that the Energys have more like "the M50 sound" than "the M80 sound", ie they will probably sound "smoother" than the 80s due to a slight midrange dip. I couldn't find graphs for C-7 but the C-3 and C-9 definitely show a response more like the M50 than the M60/M80.

Anyways, if you can give us a bit more detail re: what differences you heard we can probably be more helpful...


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Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80678 02/05/05 06:59 PM
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As was discussed somewhere here a few weeks ago, differences in volume (even tiny differences) lead to the louder speaker sounding better. The dealer "doing his best" to make sure the speakers sounded like they were at the same volume doesn't make for an acceptable comparison.

Now, I'm not saying the Axioms were better; I haven't heard the Energys so I have no way of knowing.... The Energys might in fact be better sounding speakers to many people, certainly yourself included. But it's important that an A/B test be set up correctly or it's virtually worthless.

The previous post regarding room placement is correct in that it's a big factor as well.


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80679 02/05/05 07:07 PM
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I'd rather not group the M50s into the extremely laid back category. They're really very similar to the M22/60/80 line. It sounds more to me (without hearing either speaker, but based on Craig's info) that it's more like Rockets vs. M80s. Would that be correct, Craig?


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Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80680 02/05/05 07:21 PM
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Agreed. No attempt to do that. My point was almost the opposite -- that even within the "quite similar" Axiom lineup there were different characteristic sounds.

Guess I was trying distinguish between "good vs. bad" and "different"


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Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80681 02/05/05 08:56 PM
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OK, here's my follow-up... Without a doubt the placement has something to do with it, but the Energys were set-up in a room flanked by two other speakers, we removed one of those other two pairs and placed my Axioms in its place, so the set-up should have been at least mediocre since they probably had the other speakers setup somewhat decent. OK, Axiom vs the Energys, I would actually say that the Energys were bighter and more forward. The vocals were much more defined and truer to human vocals and had a slightly more forward sound. The Axioms in the midranges actually sounded muddy and jumbled when there were too many instruments. The piano notes were somewhat comparable one vs the other, but the piano fit better in the Energys overall sound presentation vs the Axioms where the piano got lost in the confusion of the instruments. I would say that the Energys did a much better job in portraying each individual instrument and spacially placing them within the soundstage whereas the Axioms lost some of that definition and pinpointability, which ultimately lead to confusion and that muddied sound. I also must say that even walking into that store, I WANTED to like MY Axioms better, and yet came out liking the Energys. The soundstage in the store I found was somewhat similar to mine at home, so I don't think the placement was entirely at fault, the Energys soundstage just seemed wider (well beyond the speakers). Just after hearing all the love that Axioms get, I was really curious as to something else that might be attributing to this comparison in which in my opinion the Energys soundly won. (I would actually say I like a brighter sound as to I don't like the 600 series of B&W)

Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80682 02/05/05 09:46 PM
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Well that's the first time I've ever heard the term "muddy" used when describing Axioms. Usually, detractors describe them as being "ear-bleeding" bright. LOL!

I'd like to return to the point Mark made about volume. Did the salesperson use a Sound Pressure Level Meter to establish the volume for each speaker? If he did, I have no answer for you. If he didn't - if he only made sure the volume knob on the receiver was at the same point, or if he established the "same" volume by ear, dollars to donuts the speakers were NOT at the same volume. And, as Mark pointed out, even the slightest difference in level can make a huge difference in your impressions of the speakers.

Point 2. I'm not saying, that this is the case, but it's something you have to keep in mind. The salesperson had a vested interest in which speaker sounded better. I'm sure he's interested in making a sale. Unless you were privy to ALL the setup parameters, there is always the possibility things were manipulated to favor the speaker he'd like to sell you.

Lastly, if you're satisfied that everything was on the up and up, and you preferred the Energys, good heavens, return the Axioms and buy the Energys. It's too important a purchase to live with doubts. It doesn't really matter what brand you like. Being content with your purchase, and happy with what you hear is the name of the game.


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80683 02/06/05 04:21 AM
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In reply to:

Lastly, if you're satisfied that everything was on the up and up, and you preferred the Energys, good heavens, return the Axioms and buy the Energys. It's too important a purchase to live with doubts. It doesn't really matter what brand you like. Being content with your purchase, and happy with what you hear is the name of the game.




Absolutely...my only hesitation is that how you just described the difference between the C-7's and your M80's is just about the exact OPPOSITE of how I felt about them. Odd.




Re: Axiom m80ti vs Energy Connoisseur C-7
#80684 02/06/05 04:23 AM
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Wow... I had to read your post a few times to make sure I was reading it properly. What you describe is the classic "Axiom vs. something else" review, but normally the Axioms are the "clear, forward, vocals more defined, portraying each individual instrument etc..." speaker and the other one is the "muddy, confusing" one.

A couple of thoughts...

1. The M80s are more placement-sensitive than smaller speakers. Depending on the room, they like to be at least a foot and a half from the back wall or they can sound boomy (which might translate to muddy ?).

2. The salesman could have been fiddling the volume controls to make the Energys play a bit louder than the Axioms; only you can judge whether that is a possibility. Having said that, I don't think a dB or two would be enough to make the difference you described.

3. The switch was backwards. I would like to think this is true but it's not very likely

I don't know what to say. Something is wrong here but I have no idea what it might be.


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