Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler OT: VOIP

Anyone using Voice over IP (VOIP) for their home phone yet? I am thinking of giving it a try since the price is so much less, but wanted to get some feedback first.

I have it. It's very quiet. You will like it. Which provider are you considering?

Only advice.....read details concerning E911 services. I'm not sure whether they have handled the problem yet, but up until recently, they could not provide E911 service to customers....at least to the person's local center. So, if you dial 911 and can't talk, you're SOL. I think that some companies may have addressed this, but it's something to check on if you are considering replacing your home phone w/ VoIP services.

What the heck is Voip?

Voice Over IP. It's basically a phone that uses the internet instead of the PSTN (publically switched telephone network).

Ok, so it uses the internet AND the PSTN, but only if the person you're calling is using a regular phone, which is pretty much everybody.

I predict in less than 10 years, IP phones will be in every household.

also consider when power is out no phne either.

Zarak,
I built a new house over the summer, and took the opportunity to dump my local phone company (Bell). I'm in Northern Ontario, and my ISP (Vianet) offers a VOiP line for $12.50CAD / mth which includes all the bells-and-whistles (voicemail, call waiting, call display, call conferencing etc.), and long distance of 5c / min anywhere in North America, anytime. A comparable service from Bell would run ~ $40CAD, therefore the economic benefit is a no-brainer.
I’ll break this up into a pros/cons list to avoid rambling on for 3 pages. Note, I’ll use the benefits as they applied to me, and all costs are in CAD$.
Pros:
- Cost savings of > $300 per year (I’m quite frugal, so this was enough for me!)
- Portability: My wife and I spent a week in Mexico in December, and we brought our ATA (analogue telephone adapter) and a phone with us. This allowed us to plug the ATA into a high-speed internet port, and we could keep in touch with family, mainly our daughter, without incurring any cost. Any calls to/from your ‘home area-code’, regardless of where in the world you’re connected, are considered a local call. We actually made a few dollars by letting others at the resort use our phone to call home since my long distance rate of 5c/min was substantially cheaper than the resort.
- Number porting: I was able to keep my old number that I’ve had for years. This would not have been possible had I stayed with Bell since I was moving across town.
Cons: (I’ll also list how I overcame them)
- Potentially 911, although I think most service providers have fixed this. The only thing to remember, is if you do travel with the ATA, dialing 911 will send emergency personnel to the registered address. My service provider requires I call them when I travel with the ATA, and they de-activate my 911 service.
- Power outage: If you loose power to your cable modem and ATA, you are without telephone service. This was not really a big issue for me, since I have a cell phone for backup and power outages in my area are quite uncommon. I also purchased a small UPS that supplies plenty of power to keep my modem, router and ATA running during short interruptions.
- Connection to existing phone distribution system in your home. This was a non-issue for me, since I pre-planned and wired my house during construction to allow for VoiP. This is by no means insurmountable, but you will have to put some thought into it. Requirements are: Coax from ISP to cable modem, cable modem to router, router to ATA, ATA to house phone distribution. Note, you can also connect the cable modem directly to the ATA, then ATA to router.
- QOS (Quality of Service): This is the biggest challenge in my opinion, and is dependant on a few things. The 2 most important variables are the bandwidth from your ISP, and your internet usage. My personal situation was such that if I was downloading something, the voice-quality was choppy at best. Remember, I’m not in a telecommunications-hub, therefore my bandwidth is not the greatest. There are a few ways to deal with this. First, many of the new ATAs have QOS built-in, and can be configured to prioritize voice over data. Also, with the advancement of VoiP, many new routers on the market offer QOS. I went the Linux route, and configured my Linux firewall to prioritize voice, and this corrected the issue to an acceptable point. There are still times when the voice is a bit choppy, mainly between 3-5pm when kids are getting home from school and internet traffic in general increases. It’s not enough to cause a problem for me, and every time I hear it drop a bit, I simply think of the money I’m saving . Your method of resolving the QOS issue is up to you, but it’s really not that difficult.
- ISP caps: Depending on your usage and account type, you may have to upgrade to an 'unlimited'. If you have a capped account, and you exceed your download/upload limit you'll be 'up-the-creek' with your phone.

All-in-all, my suggestion to anyone wanting to switch to VoiP is to test it first. Ask your ISP to lend you an ATA to test for 1-2 months and see if it works for you. The largest potential draw-back in my mind is the voice-quality. If you can solve this, it becomes smooth sailing, and is a great way to use advancements in technology to save a few bucks. I also echo others in saying VoiP will take over in the next 5-10 years. Well, so much for doing pros/cons to keep it short!

Excellent post! I also like the way you worked through the issues you would face.

I spent 2004 designing VoIP installations for customers - mostly multi location enterprises - with the engineering firm I worked for. I have one at home, and can atest to the fact that the flexibility is tremendous. If you can get the service, it works well. Combined with a wireless connection, laptop, and typical geek type tools, you are truly "always connected"

I am currently the IT Manager for a large call centre, and our agents are all VoIP.

Have they solved the use of fax/modems on a VoIP line?

I tried VoicePulse for a month.....didn't like it. My understanding is that Vonage is better.

The potential is great...just not sure they have ironed everything out for residential use.

If I were setting up a business/office from scratch, I would definitely plan on using VoIP for the internal phone system, but the line out would be a traditional voice line.

Vonage is the company I was looking at. $15 a month for up to 500 minutes. If we lose power, I'll just use the cell.

Call me crazy, but you all say that "if the power goes out, I'll just use my cell"...well why not JUST use your cell? That's what I do. I haven't had a home phone "land line" for the last couple years. What's the point?

I have VOIP here in Quebec with Videotron and the only time a power outage will affect the phones from working is if the outage is more than 8 to 10 hours. The cable modem that is installed has a batterie backup included.

In reply to:

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I haven't had a home phone "land line" for the last couple years. What's the point?

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Don't you have one for the TiVo? Or are the standalone TiVos now all networked?

Reasons not to use a cell:

1. I don't get good reception in my house.

2. The cell is a work phone, so I try to limit my personal use. I don't have a personal cell phone (I don't see a need for two cells).

Reasons not to use a cell:

1. I don't get good reception in my house.

2. The cell is a work phone, so I try to limit my personal use. I don't have a personal cell phone (I don't see a need for two cells).

3. Even when there is good reception, the sound quality is not as good as a land line.

Sorry, meant to edit that first one, not double post.

Based on my life, a cell phone as my only telephone just won't cut it. The two main reasons are cost and flexibility. In order to obtain a plan that would have enough minutes, er hours, to suit my families telephone needs, I would have to dish out an enormous sum of money, definitely > $12.50/mth for VOiP. I require the flexibility of having multiple phones, in different areas of the house, (ex: basement, garage, workshop etc.). Also, as mentioned above, purchasing movies and changing programming on my Express Vu requires a landline. To me, it would be a pain to have to ensure the battery on a cell phone is ALWAYS charged. Being away on business a lot, and requiring my cell phone, would leave my family phoneless. However, I could get multiple cell phones on the same plan, but again, costs would get out of hand pretty quick. Finally, the geek factor of VOiP is reason enough to get it. It's fun to play with QOS, receiving voicemails via email etc.

I use a cell phone at home and my girlfriend uses her own. We have a cable modem for internet along with cable TV service (she likes the cable TV, I think its a waste).

When making international calls, I use a calling card that is VOIP. It is very inexpensive. I guess it works good but I don't really know because the only time I use it is to call countries with less than stellar infrastructure.

then there is that radiation thing with cellphones........

I remember during the early 90's when everyone was afraid of cellular RF radiation. I worked at US WEST Cellular then and employees where afraid of losing their jobs over the RF Radiation news and I must admit that it was a little scary to think that a little device near your head could potentially cause tumors.
I was one of those guys that had to carry one of those huge putty colored "brick" phones every place and if you had to you could mug someone with it or use it as a hammer . Thank goodness for technology.
My personal opinion is that cell phones remove a layer of privacy from a person's life it might sound ridiculous but I can't count how many times over the years that my job or worse (my ex-wife) has been able to contact me at 3:00 AM . Needless to say, the cell phone in my opinion is a pain in the rear but a necessary tool unfortunately.

End miniature RANT

I want Vonage.... ;_;

- D

Hey Zarak, I have VoIP, and am very pleased with the results thus far.

I went with AT&T over Vonage for a couple reasons: 1, it was an instant change of my land line number to VoIP. No paperwork and wait time. Secondly, and most importantly, I heard through 2 or 3 guys I work with that Vonage has flaky service at times. It can go down altogether, and you sometimes get delays and static due to bandwith issues.

I have had the VoIP for about 4 months now, and in that time I have had exactly 1 phone call that had an issue with echoing. I'm not even sure if it was my service or the person I was talking to. Other than that, its been great. I use it for work and I'm on it for several hours most days.

I went with the 30 dollar unlimited long distance calling in US and Canada. The same Vonage plan sells for 25 bucks I believe. So far the 5 extra bucks is paying off.

I was looking at $15 a month from Vonage, which includes 500 minutes of outgoing calls. I know one person using it that says it has been fine, but you knowing a couple in the area that have had issues makes me hesitate a bit. Keep me posted on your AT&T experience. I'll probably wait another month or two and get some more feedback from you and the guy I know. Pricewise, Vonage is the way to go, but not if quality is going to be an issue.

After looking at the AT&T and Vonage sites....I might give it a try again. AT&T has one of the best internet backbones, so I am hoping that will make a positive difference with their service.

I use Vonage and love it.. I get unlimited calls for 30 bucks a month. Sound quality is great as well. The ability to forward your home phone number to any phone you want is a great feature as well(like your cellphone if you are expecting an important call)

Being a Telephone Switch Guy, I was looking for every reason to drop Verizon. I think that their service is horrible and overpriced. I believe you are paying for Union stuff rather then phone service.

IMHO, AT&T practically gave their buisness to SBC.

oh.. and the 911 thing.. Vonage has the ability to call it.

Just need to have broadband internet.

What's the taxes & fees situation with these systems? It seems like between "line charges" taxes fees etc, my regular phone bill jumps up significantly right out of the door. Are all these applied to VOIPs, too?

no.. my bill each month is 27 USD. I had the choice to keep my number, but I just moved and decided to go with the number they game me.

You can also chose the area code you wish. So if all of your friends and family live away from you, YOu could request a local Area code to them.

Remember, Unlimited calls with in the US/Canada.

Plus you get a free router with 3 ethernet inputs. I use one for my CPU(internet), one for my Xbox, and one for my telephone.

Why do I have the feeling that this is going to be one of those things that gets pricier as it catches on, rather than cheaper?

BTW...cell only works great for me, as I have no family. I can see how it could get out of control if you've got a wife and 2-3 kids as well.

It becomes a major pain. My wife, work and friends call me up all the time. I just want some down time . But the cell phone is very necessary for the most part. I’m just whining a little.

When I need down time, I turn it off.

I think my job would have a problem with that. However, I like the idea !

test

Gettin' ready for baseball season, are we?

of course! are you an indians fan as well as a browns fan?

Difficult as it is to admit, YES, I am. Seeing that you're a New Yorker, I'm surprised you're not a Yankees fan.

im 31 years old. and 85-86 were very impressional years.lol actually its what my brother liked so its what i liked. plus its easy to be a yankee fan it takes real commitment to be a mets fan.

Seeing that you're a New Yorker, I'm surprised you're not a Yankees fan.


There are just as many here that hate the Yanks with a passion as there are that love 'em. You just don't hear about Mets fans once you leave the city limits...

yeah there are some fans here that just like whatever team is playing the yankees.
so engine_joe what kind of fan are you.

Well, I have to admit, as a native Chicagoan, I have never managed to shake off being first and foremost, a Cubs fan. It's a hard lot in life, but I can't help it. It would have been very easy for me to become a Yanks fan when I moved here; they win so often! But maybe because of that, I just couldn't do it. It's too easy to be a Yankees fan!

So for that reason, I give props to the Mets. It's a hard road to hoe, and no one knows that better than Cubs fans!

lol. chicago to ny i guess you like big cities.

Just to get on topic a bit.....I ordered AT&T's VoIP service today.

Let us know how it goes... I'm definitely considering it.

Don't you mean SBC?

SBC.....AT&T.....I don't care....as long as it works!

I'd consider the same thing, but my SBD DSL requires a land line. Maybe when AT&T and SBC are better integrated, they'll allow me to cancel my land line and go VOIP.

But don't you have Tivo? I understand that some people have issues w/ Tivo's modem and VoIP. An alternate is to use broadband but then you'd need to hack your tivo...

No more TiVo at the moment.....I went with cable and got a Moxi. Been happy so far.

Also, the VoIP solution apparently can now handle fax/modem.

Nope, modern TiVos with modern software include TCP/IP connectivity. All you need is the USB/ethernet adapter.

Darn it, people--stop leaving TiVo! If they go out of business, mine won't work any more.

I put my DirecTV service on hold for 90 days (just seeing if we can do without), which means TiVo isn't getting their $5/mo. fee from me. Do you hate me?

Yes.

In reply to:

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Nope, modern TiVos with modern software include TCP/IP connectivity. All you need is the USB/ethernet adapter.

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DirecTiVos still need a landline.

How about Packet8 or Lingo? Anyone try them?

I have an on-topic question for all of you...

VoIP - when you see this written and say it aloud, what do you say? The main options being:
pronounce individual letters: V.O.I.P
or say it as a word: Voyp

This question comes about because I learned about VoIP a few years back in college, and it was *always* V.O.I.P. But I just saw a commercial the other day for "Yak VoIP" and they kept saying "Yak Voyp" over and over again. I can't express how annoying it was.

Hmm... V.O.I.P. seems like too much of a mouthful. I say voyp. Seems to me like acronyms are about evenly mixed between pronounced as "spelled out" and pronounced as a word.

I usually say Voice Over IP, but would probably use Voyp as an acryonym before V.O.I.P, just because Voyp is shorter.

One nice thing about voip is that I can use a voip softphone client and load that into my Dell Axim PDA. I then can use my Dell Axim or laptop like a cell phone. Then when I travel anywhere in North America the cost is no different if I was calling here in Toronto or NY or LA. It costs all the same as long as I can get a network connection.
http://www.vonage.com/features.php?feature=softphone

Saturn....where is the PocketPC client?

http://www.xten.com/index.php?menu=products&smenu=xproppc This is the pocket pc version of the xten client by vonage. All you need to do is transfer the PC softphone setting to the Pocket PC softphone.

If you want to try a free VOip softphone use Skype. I can test it with you since I have an account which I share by putting it on my Dell Axim or my Laptop. I use this mostly when travelling since it one of the only ones that works even through firewalls. I jump into networks on the street and make my phone calls on my Dell Axim via wireless. A lot of open networks can be jumped into specially around residential condos in any downtown city. This way I don't pay for long distance cell bills when I travel.

http://skype.com
This client is also so cool that you can purchase timeblocks for a cheap 20 Euros and can then call real cell or land lines for mere cents a minute. Also even if you don't have a PDA or laptop you can stroll into any internet cafe anywhere in the world. Download the client and install it in the machine you are using and make phone calls to anywhere if you have bought one of those blocks of time. I believe Skype is not that big in North America but it is very big in Europe. All my Euro friends contact their families this way.

I downloaded Skype, but didn't have anyone to test with and didn't want to pay for time without trying it out first. I also found a couple stories online about people that paid for time and then had problems actually being able to use the time.

Update....

I have my telephone adapter setup from AT&T, and able to make outgoing calls(phone number get cutover later in the week). So far the quality is VERY impressive.

Downside, and I should have looked into this beforehand, you have to dial the 10 digit number...this is a bad thing with kids. Vonage has 7 digit local dialing. This could warrant a switch in a month.

10 digit dialing is no big deal once you get used to it. Everyone has had to use it in the Philadelphia area for at least 5 years now. It seems strange to me when I go other places and don't have to dial the area code first, since I am so used to it.

I would be very interested in your comparision of the two services if you do switch to Vonage though. If the quality is just as good, they are the way to go price wise.

I can test with you. Check your private message. I have had no problem with the Skype billing time. A Skype call anywhere in the world to anywhere in North America it is 1.7 euro cents and I buy buckets of $20 euros. I use this on my PDA as a conveniece phone when on trips or if I call during the day where day minutes is limited to 350 mins. on my cell phone. My friend has been using Skype for the past year calling Portugal and Poland and has had no issues. This is more of convenience phone scenerio. The Vonage system would be more of a cell/landline replacement/alternative. There are actually Voip/IP phones that look like cells but are 100% hardware voip. They connect to SIP networks.
http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-VOIP+Phones#id515213
http://www.slashphone.com/70/642.html
Not yet really popular but I see it more widespread in the next couple of years as an alternative to cell when cities become city wide wifi. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=city+wide+wifi&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Downside, and I should have looked into this beforehand, you have to dial the 10 digit number...this is a bad thing with kids. Vonage has 7 digit local dialing. This could warrant a switch in a month.

We've had 10-digit dialing in NYC for the last 18 months or so. You get used to it very quickly. At any rate, it won't be long before everyone has to do 10-digit dialing. IMO, you might as well get used to it now...!

In Toronto we have been doing 10 digit dialing for a least 5 years now. 416 has ran out so all Greater Metropolitan areas on the outskirts of Toronto went 905 and then when 416 number ran out 647 was created. But calls to 647 and 416 and most 905 are still local calls to each other.

yeah...but I have kids...and they are learning 7 digit dialing....need to make it uniformly the same.

The AT&T VoIP is fully operational at my home now. Seems to be working fine....incoming and outgoing calls. The features are very nice as well.....pretty standard among all VoIP companies.

I finally held my first conversation with someone on VOIP.

I had no idea it was a VOIP line. Just sounded like a good cordless.

Bren R.

Yes...I have had my AT&T VoIP setup now for almost 3 months.....no issues, works great.

voyp has come a long way in the past couple years. My company's HQ is entirely VOIP.

that's a little different though because that is all an internal network. I agree, if I have to set up an office phone system, I would go that route.

The AT&T and Vonage home services require the use of the internet to get your phone call to someone else.

True. The corporate solutions include in-house DA converters. (We went with Cisco, btw.)

However, the only real difference btw. public VOIP and corporate VOIP, is the location of the IP/PSTN switch. In the former case, it's on your provider's premises. In the latter, it's on your premises.

yeah...how you get to that switch is a big difference..

I suppose latency can be a big downer if clear calls are what you're after.