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Loudness - What is it for?
#83377 02/28/05 05:43 AM
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As far as I know, it makes the system louder at a lower volume setting. What is the real purpose - if I want it loud, I just crank it up? Does it do anything else?

Sorry if this is a dumb question - I was just wondering

Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83378 02/28/05 07:59 AM
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DA, it's unclear what you mean by "loudness". Some(mostly old)equipment had a "loudness"(besides a volume)control which would increase the proportion of bass and treble to midrange when the volume control was at a low level. This is to counteract the Fletcher-Munson Effect, in which human ears are relatively less sensitive to bass and treble than to midrange sounds at lower sound levels.


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Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83379 02/28/05 08:53 AM
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Yes, that's what I meant. My "new" receiver - New is a relative word - the Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K still has a Loudness function.

I was just wondering - why is there a need for this. JohnK answered it, but I'm not really sure I understand it.

Should I turn it on? I usually listen to my system pretty loud, would I still need it? Would it be detrimental to the sound if I listen at high volume settings?

Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83380 02/28/05 12:50 PM
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Not looking to hijack the thread at all, (but since it's so strongly related): I asked in my "Mother of all Posts" thread "How come no one puts "loudness buttons" on equipment anymore?". No one answered.

Anyone know?


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83381 02/28/05 01:24 PM
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I don't think we know. I miss the button...

To the previous question about "I listen pretty loud, will it make a difference" the answer is probably "yes it will make a difference but you shouldn't use it".

The expensive implementation of loudness used extra potentiometers in the volume control to allow the amount of emphasis to vary with the volume control setting, ie it would have no effect at high volumes but more effect as you turn the volume down. Cheap implementations just pumped up the bass and treble whenever the button was pushed.

I liked the loudness button because it seemed to use different breakpoints from the tone controls, ie you could not duplicate the loudness effect with the bass and treble controls, and the loudness button did a better job of making things sound right at low volumes.

I think the real answer to the "why are there no loudness buttons on receivers" is that they put them all in DVD players ("night mode") instead so there weren't any left over for receiver production.


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Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83382 02/28/05 02:13 PM
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My dad has an older receiver (not sure of model) with a loudness button. I had the music turned up and that button on, and it sounded horrible. The bass just didn't sound right at all. I would suggest not using this button, except perhaps when listening at low levels as mentioned above.

Needless to say, I have been trying to convince him it is time to upgrade his equipment He has some old Polk speakers, and in the other room as B speakers he has some Bigger bose speakers (big for Bose, anyway) that look a little like the QS8.

Last edited by Zarak; 02/28/05 02:13 PM.
Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83383 02/28/05 03:02 PM
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It would be great if the Loudness functionality (when turned on) is active at low levels, but as I crank the volume setting, it goes away by itself. I don't know if this is the case though...

I do have it off all the time, and so far the consensus seems to have it off.

Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83384 02/28/05 06:22 PM
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I always used the loudness button but never knew what it was for. Never even heard of the Fletcher-Munson thing. Learn something new every day...

Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83385 02/28/05 06:31 PM
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I've almost always made use of "loudness" buttons when listening quietly. Without that "fullness" in the bass, it just always sounds thin.

I actually wouldn't be surprised.... now that I think of it I'm quite confident.... that I often listen to music louder than necessary pretty often to ensure that I do get that full bass sound!


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83386 02/28/05 07:50 PM
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Hi all,

I agree that when a loudness control was properly implemented (some of the old Yamahas had nicely designed variable loudness controls separate from the volume control), it was usefull.

I believe it was dropped because lots of consumers did not understand what it was for. Another reason was that lots of users who had compact speakers thought it "sounded better" with the loudness control on all the time, which would overdrive lower-powered receivers into clipping. The crude loudness controls typically applied 10 dB or more boost in the bass which would make the amplifier deliver ten times as much power.

I recall going to parties in the 1970s where someone with a cheap Pioneer receiver would have the thing blasting a couple of smallish speakers that were obviously distorting because the loudness control was on.

Regards,


Alan Lofft,
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Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83387 02/28/05 08:13 PM
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In reply to:

I recall going to parties in the 1970s where someone with a cheap Pioneer receiver would have the thing blasting a couple of smallish speakers that were obviously distorting because the loudness control was on.




Hmmm, sounds like when my roomates blew my old RS minimus 7's (or something akin to them) during a party while I was gone for a weekend. This was twenty years ago and even then, I had a Vega non-powered sub, but they somehow mistook that "full sound" as meaning that the speakers were as capable as floorstanders.

Grrrrrrr.......


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: Loudness - What is it for?
#83388 03/01/05 01:15 AM
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A brief illustration and discussion of the equal loudness curves first developed through the work of Fletcher and Munson can be found here . Their work was refined by Robinson and Dadson with better equipment in the 1950s and research still continues in the matter.

It's unlikely that a simple on/off loudness button would provide a very sophisticated compensation. It might be worthwhile to use it when listening at a very low background music level.


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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


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