Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Please help me pick

OK guys, my grandkids agree with you entirely, "Cartoons-and animated features-RULE!"

The point I was trying to make though about listening to the cartoon orchestral peices; ricwilli, was that the M50s(and I'm sure the M60s and certainly the M80s) just sound so much Bigger, more robust and even "Healthier" than the M3s on the same pieces. I'm using the same sub, receiver, same 80hz crossover point and same speaker location as I used with the M3s, so I have a pretty good comparison of the two to work from.

To level the playing field a bit toward the bookshelfs, my listening room is almost too large for the M3s-which is why I bought the M50s in the first place-and the room layout is not actually ideal for ANY type of speaker. I'll be working on room acoustics in the near future however, as well as getting my new receiver-with 60hz crossover-up and running too.

I don't know how the M22s with a sub sound compared to the M50s, but I do know there is a major difference and improvement between the M3s with a sub to M50s and a sub, in "My" room.

The m3s, at any rate just sound "Smaller" then the M50s.

Rich.

F10plus5, I believe that if you would have gotton the M22ti's instead of the M50's, that you would be saying the same thing about the M22's as your saying for the M50's. I believe you took two steps up from the M3's and got the M50's. Of course your going to hear the difference and improvement. If you would have taken only one step up from the M3's which would have been the M22's than you would still hear the difference and improvement between the M3's and M22's. I'm just a newbie but that is what I believe.

While you are no doubt correct in that he would hear something different (whether it would be an improvement to his ears or not, I'm not sure), having heard both the M22s and the M50s, the tower speakers just have a fuller sound than the bookshelves. This is not to demean the bookshelves in any way; the only ones I've heard (the M22s) are amazing.

Did I avoid offending anyone?

"the tower speakers just have a fuller sound than the bookshelves."


With the M22s backed by a good sub, I would tend to disagree.
Having the M60s and M22s at the same time I thought they sounded very simular (with speakers set to small). The M60s did fill my large listening area with more sound overall. For a listening area the size of ricwillis, I think the M22s are gonna rock.

Oh, right. I forgot to mention that we did all of our testing sans the sub. So you are probably right there.

I think I agree with you about the M22s-it can handle a larger room than the M3s-and it certainly would have been a step up. It slots in quite well between the M3 and the M50s. It beats both the M3 and M50 an clarity and accuracy acording to all reports, it also plays louder with less strain then the M3s. Where the difference comes in, and this is only to "MY" ears, is that the M50s sound like big M3s! (I've had M3s for over four years and have grown quite attached to them)so naturally I wanted to get a set of Big 3s. What suprised me however, is the small differences between the M3 and M50s. The M50s, compared to the M3s are actually slightly more Foreward! And just ever so slightly Drier. (I only notice this in stereo mode) I'm guessing the M50s are also just ever so slightly more accurate! Again, I now have a large, goofy listening area that needs lots of work and I'm driving the M50s at levels that would have the M3s to the point of gasping.(another of the reasons I purchased the M50s, the M3s were straining at HT levels) So I may well be comparing speakers at levels where the M50s are "Happy" and the M3s are "Not"

The main point that I was trying to make though, was the ammount of presence the M50s have in my room, my wife even commented on the "Robust" sound they produce compared to the "Old" speakers. And She ain't one to impress easily!

My overall impression on the M22s is that they are generally a more accurate and cleaner sounding speaker than the M50, but that they sound somewhat smaller even than the M3,(due to the way the bass is presented-the M3s cheat with a bass hump that makes then sound larger, and better able to "Stand Alone"without a sub) So I guess in this case...

(Please forgive me...)

"Size Does Matter"
Rich,

As F107 says, I think it's a function of room size. In a room that's not too big for the M22s there won't be much noticeable difference between 22s, 50s, 60s, or even 80s in terms of "ability to fill the room". BTW the same goes for M2s in a small enough room.

As the room gets bigger, you need bigger speakers (probably bigger driver area is what matters) or you start hitting the limits of what the speakers can do comfortably. In a 13x23 room M2s "hit the wall" when you try to play loudly -- I imagine M22s with twice the driver area would be noticeably better in that room.

Make the room bigger again, and I expect the M50s would really come into their own. If you measure the active area of the drivers (using the center of the surround) you get roughly 4" for the smaller drivers and 5.5" for the larger drivers -- 12.5 vs. 23 square inches of surface area respectively -- so the difference from M2 to M22 should be about the same as the difference from M22 to M50. Interestingly enough the M3 and M22 have about the same driver area so it probably is frequency response that accounts for one sounding larger than the other standalone.

I forget the term -- might be "dynamic compression" -- when you reach the point where cranking the volume up doesn't make the SPL go up as much any more, but it is noticeable and the M22s should hit that point before the M50s.

From the Axiom site -- "A sub-sat system... with the M22s... gives up only the ability to play at extremely loud levels in larger rooms to floor standing speakers...".

EDIT -- for ricwilli's room (11x19x8 ?) the M22s would be more than enough for HT (ie I don't think they would hit their limits at all), only concern is how loud "loud music" really means. For some people (self included) loud music can be REALLY loud

I think your right bridgman about the loudness. For me, I might have over expressed the word "LOUD". But its good to know that the M22 is more than enough for my size room. Ok this week I'll be ordering the M22's, QS8's, VP100 and the SVS PB10 ISD Sub. I'm actually going to try to order them today if I have some time. I hope I don't need an amp for all this stuff. I'm also going to go search for some speaker plates.