Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions THX Re-equalization

Sally, not sure where you live, but I would try to audition Axiom's in your area if possible. You can check the audition link in the Questions and Answers forum. I used to be a regular at the AVSforum board, and was told by many to stay away from Axioms because they are to bright and harsh. In addition, I was told Denon's being mechanical sounding, when paired with Axiom's would increase that brightness. Personally, those people couldn't be further from the truth. I auditioned Axiom's against B&W, NHT, Paradigm, and a few others. What your hearing is accuracy and efficiency. Don't get me wrong, the other brands are fine speakers, but I preferred Axiom in the end. Combined with my Denon, it is a match made in Heavan, thanks Axiom for recommending the Denon. The more I listen the better they sound to my brain, and NO, they don't break themselves in.... Your brain breaks itself in.... good luck on your choices...

Sally, welcome. I don't like "bright-type" speakers and that's one of the reasons that I chose Axiom M22s for most of my classical music listening. The neutrality of their frequency response appealed to me and I've been completely satisfied in the three years that I've had them. If on rare occasions I'd be listening to some poorly-recorded pop item which was intentionally mastered "hot" or "bright" so as to sound more impressive on mediocre speakers, the solution was to use the tone controls to partially correct the problem , rather than to listen on a less accurate speaker.

JohnK,

Then is "brightness" something that does have an objective type component in terms of some sort of frequency curve or something?

Yes, it appears that the "brightness" is an overemphasis in the upper-midrange/lower treble roughly in the 2-6KHz area. Using the treble tone control can help on some recordings that have this characteristic, but can't do a perfect job. Some receivers that have equalizers which can be set to affect various frequencies can do a better job. In my view the better solution is to avoid such lousy recordings whenever possible.

Axiom has two major sub-groups, one clear and accurate the other ever so slightly warmer and "Pleasant" sounding. I am extreemly familiar with 66% of the warmer variety, and never have I heard a Bright sound from either of them, even on movies that are alledged to be mixed Bright! So I would,-in my humble opinion-have a rough time justifying using re-EQ. I do, however use a bit of EQ in the 100hz and below range only, just to tame an evil room.(It Works, at least until such time that I can get around to upholstering the fireplace)

Bright? Nope, don't think so!!

Just my .04 devalued US$ worth.
Rich.

I'm starting to suspect that one reason Axioms (among others) get branded as "bright" without having any apparent response peaks is that a number of nearfield monitor speakers (eg. the Rogers LS3/5a "BBC monitors" and in fact a whole generation of speakers) have a dip in that region. If you EQ to sound right on one of those speakers then your recording is going to be a bit peaky in that region... and on Axioms the recording is going to sound bright.

If you look at the measured response of enough speakers one thing you notice is that quite a few of them have a small dip in the 3 KHz region, including the Axiom M3/M40/M50 family. 3 KHz is, of course, right around the normal crossover freq for a small 2-way speaker. Alan pointed out that the M3/M40/M50s have that small dip because they use the 6.5" driver for midrange and its off-axis response drops off faster than the 5.25" mid used for M2/M22/M60/M80. The result is that on-axis response on the 3/40/50 is real good but in a typical room the off-axis response blends in and gives you that dip.

The result IMO is that M3/M40/M50 actually sound best on anything recorded to be extra bright (and sound just a tiny bit recessed on really good recordings) while the M2/M22/M60/M80 can sound a bit harsh if the recording is peaked up in the 3KHz region but sound exceptional on good, flat recordings.

I guess it would be better if the M2/M22/M60/M80 had a "flat" / "crappy recording" switch on the back

EDIT -- I should add that these comments are fresh from comparing M2, M3 and M60 together in the same room. I owned the M2s and M60s but at the end of the testing I decided that for casual music listening (eg. listening to whatever happens to be on the tuner or the CD changer rather than picking the good recordings) the M3s did have an edge. If you are picking and choosing what you listen to (ie no crappy recordings unless the song is really good) then the M2/M22/M60/M80 family will get the very most out of the music.

Again, all these differences everyone talks about are pretty minor (a few dB), we're not talking ski slopes in the frequency response curve. If you get a chance, poke around the Soundstage site and compare the response curves for M2, M3, M22 and M40, then compare them to other well-regarded speakers. The M3/M40 have a bit of the same midrange dip you see in the Paradigm monitor speakers, for example (although less of a dip), while the M2/M22 are pretty flat. The M2, in particular, is just scary flat until the bass disappears around 80 Hz

Bottom line -- yeah, the Axiom M2/M22/M60/M80 are going to seem bright on some recordings but as far as we can see it's the recordings not the speakers. The M3/M40/M50 aren't likely to sound bright on anything.

Bridgman, JohnK

Thank you. Can you give me an example of a crappy, but fairly well known, recording that exhibits the behavior you describe so that I can test it on some speakers?

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Given the personal listening choice issue, would it follow then that one who does not like bright-type speakers would have trouble with Axioms? Say especially for music?

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Well, again, I wouldn't consider them bright, but neutral and most other speakers just not being able to handle highs well.

Give them a listen if you can find an auditioner in your area, and if you're that concerned, as a soother to those that are worried, Axiom will send out a resistor kit to "tame" the tweeters. Think everyone here I've read that used them took them back out though. It's hard to get used to hearing part of the frequency range you don't normally, and those that find the treble "fatiguing" often find they're concentrating and actively listening too much (this just came up on the forum recently again)... I did the same thing with my QS4s... tried to listen for them, and it gave me a headache. So after the ear-break-in period, seems most people miss hearing that top-end and take the resistors back out. (Does anyone here have a resistor kit still in their speakers?)

Of course, if you like the sound of Cerwin-Vegas... god help your immortal soul, you'd have to "tweak" a set of Axioms by chewing out the tweeter, gluing modelling clay to the woofer and slipping a canvas bag over the speaker.

Bren R.

BrenR

Thank you.

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that's not a frequency response, that's a bell curve!"

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A new signature line if i've ever read one.

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Does anyone here have a resistor kit still in their speakers?

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Indeed i do.
The resistor took the tweeter output down maybe 2dB or so. With the relative inaccuracy of the Radio Shack meter (+/-1dB), i can't be sure exactly. Now the M60 can be turned a bit higher before listening fatigue sets in.
It just took the edge off the output, softening the volume on the ears ever so slightly.
This was critical mostly for the part of our music collection which is more mainstream but is rather unnoticeable for dialogue in movies. The change is subtle but easier on my wife's ears.
It was a better solution than replacing old discs with remastered mixes or never listening to them again.