Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater What am I doing wrong

Hi guys and gals,

Been a while since I've been on this board. Anyway here goes.

While back I purchased the M60's, a VP150 and 2 Qs8's (BTW like the QS8's alot). Anyway, I am finding myself constantly changing the volume during a movie to hear what is being said. The M60's are being driven with a Crown 402 and the qs8's and vp-150 are being driven by an HK 7200.

All have been calibrated using test tones and a RS SPL meter.

It's damned annoying. Any help you guys may have for me would be appreciated.

Also, I thought that these speakers were tonally the same? Yet when I do a pan across (like using a tone generated from the HK) there is a distinct difference from one M60 to the VP 150 to the other M60. The m60's do not sound the same with the pan and the VP-150 doesn't sound like either one of them as well.

Hope it's something stupid that I've done and they aren't shongoed.

Hopefully some of the other AV techies will chime in here, as I proposed a similar question a while back. I also find myself constantly turning the volume up/down to hear the dialog from my VP150. I have adjusted the level of that speaker above that of my mains, but still have the issue. I also manually adjusted the midrange frequencies, per a suggestion I believe JohnK mentioned. It may be slightly better, but still find myself adjusting the volume.

Randy

When I run the test tones generated by my HK 7200, I hear a difference in my matching fronts and center. I think there is a slight tonal difference because most centers are sealed, not ported like your mains. With test tones there are slight variations. However, when I watch movies or play a video game I notice no tonal shift between the two. Make sure you have the VP150 up to the edge of your cabinet or entertainment center, reduces the chance of any reflections that can alter the sound.

Just a random guess/idea. Is this on every movie you watch or just specific ones? I find that some of my DVDs were poorly mixed. Especially those that are dubbed in some form (Anime). So the speaking parts are far too low, but when the action comes I have to turn it down. For example Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust is so poorly mixed that I have only watched it through once even though I enjoy the film. But I get sick and tired of adjusting the volume up and down.

jr

You must have done something wrong. You might want to check the CC speaker level again. I only have the VP100, but, it has always been as clear as a bell, even uncalibrated. If that doesn't help, I would seriously consider going to the doc and have him flush your ears.

Make sure the VP150 is tilted up/down to point at the listening area -- that also seems to help. Sometimes a hockey puck or equivalent under the back edge of the speaker...

And, as already mentioned, make sure the front edge of the speaker is not behind the front edge of the TV/shelf.

EDIT -- BTW, everyone's speakers sound different when playing pink noise tones. I can't say "don't worry about it" (I still worry about it ) but there are some simple experiments you can do to ease your mind :

- pan between the M60s, note how they sound different

- place the M60s side by side in the center of the room, test again, they will sound pretty much the same

- I haven't tried the above with M60 vs. VP100 yet but I imagine it would make quite a difference as well. Note that you MUST run both in small with a fairly high crossover (higher than 100 Hz) or the extra bass of the M60 will always make them sound different

"Sometimes a hockey puck or equivalent under the back edge of the speaker... "

Door stop wedges work well.

"...but when the action comes I have to turn it down."

You don't have to turn it down, but it is freakin' loud - just like a movie theater, eh?

Hi rmcgirr83,

It's placement, placement, placement! And the ROOM! Even identical speakers will sound different using a pink-noise test signal unless they are placed side-by-side. (Even in that setup you may hear slight differences; that's how hugely influential the room is in altering the sound of a given speaker.) Try it with your M60ti's, then place them in the usual positions. It's a very interesting experiment.

The center channel speaker is, according to all my tests, even more susceptible to changes in tonal balance. See my article, "Fine-Tuning Center Channel Sound" in the Axiom newsletter Archives. You can get to it under Audio Tips and Tweaks. Try the site map (bottom of screen) if you can't find it.

Try different placement of your center. Keep in mind that pink noise is a rigorously critical test signal. Use your remote and play movie dialog, switching from "Stereo" to a 5.1-channel mode until the dialog sounds tonally matched. With experimentation, you can get it very close. I also use music with a vocalist switching back and forth as I try different locations for the center.

Remember that about 70% or more of the sound you hear from a single speaker is made up of groups of reflections from all the boundaries and objects in your room; only a small percentage is the direct sound radiated by the speaker. This is why the same speaker in slightly different locations will always sound different using pink noise, because each change in location invokes a different combination of direct and reflected sound. Our hearing is incredibly acute in the midrange (evolution. . .), so we can detect tiny differences in coloration using pink noise.

Once you have a good location for the center, adjust its level directly with a few movies. Some are poorly mixed, so you may have to tweak the center level occasionally, but if you are having to adjust all the time, your center location is flawed.

Regards,

Thanks for the replies...and I have pretty good hearing so no visit to the doc for me....yet.

Like I said earlier the mains are being fed via a pro amp from the hk. The db is set at 0 from the hk to the pro amp and the pro amp is cranked wide open. The center is set at +5 db on the hk and is, currently, located towards the rear of a salamander twin thirty (not located at the very front of the stand). All have been spl'ed at 80 db. (hence the +5 on the center as the pro amp pumps out 220 WPC). I wouldn't think that ~10 inches of shelf space would impede the sound waves (reflections) that much? Also FWIW, by placing the CC on the salamander places the speaker right at ear level...or at least close enough to say "ear level".

RE: DVD's I do notice that it is with some more so than with others...but I still have to adjust the volume for all. :confused:

On HD via OTA it isn't like this...other than the loudness via all...and the dialoge is very intelligible.

I guess I'll try and move the CC more toward the front of the cabinet, although not sure about the WAF as that will allow anyone to see the speaker wire.

I thought I shouldn't have to do this as these speakers replaced some JBL studios that were getting on in the years. So I replaced them with these.

Just not sure I made the right decision and I guess that's what I get for not listening to them to begin with prior to buying.

Any other ideas and is anyone looking for slightly used but never abused M60's and a VP-150?