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Using a compter as a CD source?
#9139 03/02/03 10:45 PM
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Hi, I am currently running a pair of m3ti's with an older Denon avc-2800 receiver (if anyone knows where I can get a manual, plese let me know). I am looking for the best way to connect my computer to the receiver. Right now, I'm just using an Acoustic Research chord that goes from the 1/8th out on my SB Audigy 2 to the rca-in on the Denon. I guess my question is:

What kind of quality does a computer CD drive provide?
Will my current setup cause a significant loss of sound quality?

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

-Josh

Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9140 03/03/03 02:31 PM
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Josh

are you sending a digital signal from your Audigy? If so, it should be just fine. All it is doing is sending 1's and 0's. A 5000$ player won't send better 1's and 0's.

The one thing I didn't like about using my computer was the noise issue. Computers run much louder than a CD or DVD player. Try placing the computer as far away from your listening position as possible. Isolate it. Or get a really good noise proof casing.

Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9141 03/03/03 06:24 PM
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As Ravi said, so long as your stream is digital, an expensive player won't transmit the binary stream any better. It's a fairly mindless engineering problem to discern two voltage levels in a binary stream.

In reply to:

The one thing I didn't like about using my computer was the noise issue. Computers run much louder than a CD or DVD player. Try placing the computer as far away from your listening position as possible. Isolate it. Or get a really good noise proof casing.




Additionally, if you didn't build your own machine, you likely have very obnoxious cooling going on. To quiet down the machine, you can replace the internal fans with a better product like Pabst or Panaflo. The Panaflo L1A doesn't churn out a massive amount of air, but it's VERY quiet for the air it moves.

Zalman makes a series of passive coolers as well. At the very least, replacing your video card's little whiner with a passive heat pump will cut down sound dramatically. They also make a very quiet CPU cooler, but an Alpha or SK-800 and a Panaflo are pretty hard to hear too.

The cheap POS power supplies in most mass produced computers suck too. Replacing yours with an Antec True Power series PSU will cut down almost ALL of the sound from the power unit. They're that quiet.

Lastly, the ultimate move in sound elimination is to go with a water cooled setup. There are decent kits available and the only sound you wind up with is the pump (good ones are pretty quiet) and the 120mm fan that cools the radiator. They are very hard to hear if done properly, though a water cooling kit usually costs you around $200.

Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9142 03/03/03 06:44 PM
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He's using headphone out to RCA in, not a digital connection.

Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9143 03/03/03 06:50 PM
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I despise Creative as a rule and will never provide them with another dollar, but the Audigy 2 has pretty good DAC's by all accounts, even better than the TBSC (barely) which carries a special place in my heart. The sound quality is superior to their other cards by a signficant margin and better than all onboard systems (though just barely in the case of the Asus nForce2). If you want to get the best quality analog out though, ditch the mass market crappy sound cards and pick up something from M-Audio. The Audiophile 24/96 has always been hailed as the best sound card short of a pro board out there. They've since added the Revolution which provides equal DAC quality (some say better...) plus a host of other features at a price comparable to the Audigy 2 (maybe a bit less).

If you can sell the Audigy 2 or return it, you can grab a Revolution here:
http://www.midiman.net/products/consumer/revolution_page1.php

BTW, it supports 7.1 DVD audio if you watch movies on your computer.

Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9144 03/03/03 08:19 PM
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Semi, you're on fire today.

I've got the Turtle Beach SC in my own system. I absolutely hate Creative and their proprietary push in your face software and drivers. But they do have an edge with the hardware onboard.
I've heard of M-Audio lately but haven't read much about it yet.

I am curious as to your impression of the latest water cooled units. Got any recommendations for first time buyers? (I've hated the whiny noise of my Volcano3 now for a year although my Antec PP303x p.s. isn't bad).
The temptation to tweak is upon me.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9145 03/03/03 08:35 PM
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In reply to:

I am curious as to your impression of the latest water cooled units.




Search the case and cooling fetish forum at Ars for discussions of the various kits. I haven't taken the plunge (no pun intended) yet on my system. The only component of my current system that is particularly noisy is the fan on my old GeForce GTS. As soon as ATi releases the 9800 and 9900 (next couple of days supposedly), I'll pick one up, throw a Zalman on it and see if my system is quiet enough. If it's still too loud, I'll probably try a Danger Den kit.

In reply to:

Got any recommendations for first time buyers?




First and foremost, read as much as you can about it. Hit up Ars and search the forum. There are a lot of tweakers at HardOCP as well, though I'm not a big fan of their forum in general. Make sure you understand what's going on before you try it. The last thing you want to do is fry your gear.

Once you've done that, you can either buy an entire kit from one of the water cooling websites or save a little money and buy the pieces seperate.

http://www.xoxide.com
http://www.dangerden.com/mall/kits.asp

There are others. I dig the look of the Danger Den stuff and they're VERY highly regarded.

In reply to:

The temptation to tweak is upon me.




Be careful. It starts out so easy and cheap in computers that you can get very hooked. Next thing you know, you're spending all your time and money on it. It's very addictive.

DAC for computers
#9146 03/03/03 08:48 PM
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For high-quality DAC from computer audio, check out www.stereo-link.com. They make an external USB DAC that avoids the electrically noisy environment inside the computer case and provides analog output much superior to most PC soundcards.

Those with Macs probably don't need the stereo-link: Macs have long had excellent built-in audio capabilities with impressive DAC. If you have a Mac, check out the excellent discussion of digital audio issues at http://www.macintouch.com/usbaudioreader.html before spending additional money on either an internal audio card or an external DAC such as the stereo-link.

Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9147 03/03/03 09:13 PM
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Hey, Semi and folks,

To be honest I have always been a bit skeptical about using a computer (equipped with a decent sound card) as a CD player within a "serious" audio system. My prejudice comes in part from the assumption that these consumer cards are in general targeted for PC-oriented low-fi/mid-fi audio gears for gaming etc. But clearly I am ignorant in the recent developments in this particular field. So here are a couple of my questions for you guys...

(1) The web page for the sound card you recommended claims, for example, an S/N ratio of 105dB for audio output - a pretty ambitious spec! On the other hand, the card does not even appear to be electromagnetically shielded, judging from the photo on the web page. So, can these analog-domain specs truly attainable or guaranteed irrespective of the quality of parts and construction for the rest of your computer? For example, I assume that the cleanliness of the internal power-supply voltage could wildly vary from computer to computer; same would be true for the amount or maliciousness of radio-frequency interference inside the computer case. Given these variables, can you plug-and-play and be guaranteed for a decent "hi-fi" audio quality out of these cards? Or do you still have to optimize the power supply and other parts of the computer specifically for audio purposes in order to obtain decent results, even with the fan noise issue set aside? If these modifications can eventually be pricey, then wouldn't it be cheaper and simpler to just buy a Panasonic DVD player and forget about it?

(2) A related question: the HTPC's certainly have an appeal with respect to high-quality video processing, but do they have the level of audio quality that satisfies, say, discerning Axiom owners when configured with an audio processor/DAC card inside the computer, rather than digitally connected to a receiver or pre-pro?

(3) Excuse my ignorance here, but these cards are not capable of DVD-Audio or SACD playback since these formats require a specific transport, right? And, if the computer does have a DVD-A and/or SACD-capable transport, are these cards supposedly firmware/software updatable to make use of it?

By the way, I always listen to my favorite music at work, using a $50 USB-based audio processor connected to my computer and amp -- plenty good enough for casual listening.

Cheers!

Re: Using a compter as a CD source?
#9148 03/03/03 09:31 PM
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In reply to:

(1) The web page for the sound card you recommended claims, for example, an S/N ratio of 105dB for audio output - a pretty ambitious spec! On the other hand, the card does not even appear to be electromagnetically shielded, judging from the photo on the web page. So, can these analog-domain specs truly attainable or guaranteed irrespective of the quality of parts and construction for the rest of your computer? For example, I assume that the cleanliness of the internal power-supply voltage could wildly vary from computer to computer; same would be true for the amount or maliciousness of radio-frequency interference inside the computer case. Given these variables, can you plug-and-play and be guaranteed for a decent "hi-fi" audio quality out of these cards? Or do you still have to optimize the power supply and other parts of the computer specifically for audio purposes in order to obtain decent results, even with the fan noise issue set aside? If these modifications can eventually be pricey, then wouldn't it be cheaper and simpler to just buy a Panasonic DVD player and forget about it?




If you do a search of the AVSforum, you'll find a good number of people using a computer as a CD player and/or a DVD player. These individuals all swear by solutions such as the M-Audio. Additionally, M-Audio makes a USB setup similar to the one described above if the internal electrical noise is a concern to you.

Search that forum for more details, but I haven't seen a negative post about such a setup yet.

In reply to:

(2) A related question: the HTPC's certainly have an appeal with respect to high-quality video processing, but do they have the level of audio quality that satisfies, say, discerning Axiom owners when configured with an audio processor/DAC card inside the computer, rather than digitally connected to a receiver or pre-pro?




There's actually an entire forum devoted to this at AVS. The consensus has been a resounding yes. I'm actually in the process of building an HTPC for my own use. More important to me is the ability to use it as a central file server for the other computers in the home as well as serving my extensive Divx collection to my HT. Additionally, it should be a bit more flexible for time shifting with my external digital cable box.

I'll actually be using an nForce board though and offloading everything to my receiver digitally as I already have a DVD-A player.

In reply to:

(3) Excuse my ignorance here, but these cards are not capable of DVD-Audio or SACD playback since these formats require a specific transport, right? And, if the computer does have a DVD-A and/or SACD-capable transport, are these cards supposedly firmware/software updatable to make use of it?




DVD-A discs are no different from DVD discs. They just use a different encryption scheme to thwart us nefarious computer users. The Audigy 2 named above actually comes with the pertinent software to decode the discs. The Revo was supposed to but apparently the company they contracted to do it wasn't ready and they've been offering people an IOU.

Regards,
Semi

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