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Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92128 04/25/05 08:44 PM
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Think I also mentioned to you that the M80 are tested at Axiom for 100 hours at 1,000 watts, this info also came from Axiom members. Learned a lot about the 80s since having the Outlaw issue.

Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92129 04/25/05 09:42 PM
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In reply to:

Think I also mentioned to you that the M80 are tested at Axiom for 100 hours at 1,000 watts, this info also came from Axiom members.



Actually Tharkun i was the one who posted this information after my tour of the Axiom Factory. I got to see the M80s being pushed by 700W of Bryston power. There is a picture of it but sadly no video.

As for the other comments, play all the loudness you want. It is your equipment, but akin to the many car analogies, who here runs their little Honda at 80mph but only in 1st gear?
Pushing any speaker (or mechanical unit) has limits. When it comes to speakers and power, too little is far worse than too much but if anyone here has heard a speaker hit its excursion point, the dull flapping noise does not make anything sound at all pleasurable.
Even still, just because you can plug a speaker into 1000W of power doesn't mean that cranking it up until the cones bottom out won't cause damage. Axiom tests them absolutely, but to assume no breakage will ever occur is foolish.

I've seen reports on the forums that Axiom speakers play anywhere from 95dB maxed out to near 120dB. The sheer power alone required to hit those levels given the relative efficiencies of the M80s is HUGE. I begin to doubt some of these anecdotal reports for obvious reasons.
Stating general opinions like "Axioms will handle 1000W of power, no worries, go nuts" is not good advice, and for any newbie that reads this thread, they should think about that carefully!
107dB at what? 100 feet?
But the speakers weren't breaking apart?

Speaker companies are not obligated to honour warranties in situations where they feel excessive abuse has occurred. I'm not saying anyone here has been abusive although it appears some have taken it that way. The reported sound levels (distance information missing) make one wonder what ppl are doing that they need volumes that loud and further reporting they need a driver fixed after playing such loud levels again makes one wonder if the driver would have been fine had it not been subjected to 'near red line' levels.
I have a 400w amp that might be loaned to me in the next couple of weeks. If that happens, i will report on whether my M60s hit an excursion point or whether the amp runs out of juice first. I've seen speakers hit their physical limits at alot less. I will also record the SPL and distances measured.
Simply reporting i might do such a thing openly on these forums will certainly invalidate my warranty if i'm to call Axiom for a driver repair afterward and Axiom has the right to do so.




"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92130 04/25/05 09:46 PM
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Yikes Chess!

ass-ump-tions ...

[edit]OK, that was harsh, but so was the tone of your original smackdown. Chances are this was simply a defective driver whose defect was never detected at lower volumes. Axioms's word is the final one, and they've chosen to cover it under warranty.

Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92131 04/25/05 10:52 PM
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I don't have an SPL meter, so perhaps there's something simple that I don't understand, but when you guys are quoting dB output, are you referring to peak (instantaneous) output, or like some average over some timeframe? Just curious.


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Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92132 04/25/05 11:05 PM
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When playing music, the figure quoted is usually an eyeballed average SPL. The analog Radio Shack SPL meter can give instantatoeus readings (the needle is very jumpy and hard to read) or slower, damped readings (the needle moves in a more controlled fashion). The former is handy for measuring peaks, the latter is better for averages.

Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92133 04/25/05 11:53 PM
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Peter I was using the Radio Shack digital SPL on fast response, the peak db was 107 at a close 7 feet. I was averaging 95-100....a level where the 80s are more than adequate with what I'm using for power.


Rick
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Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92134 04/26/05 12:40 AM
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I agree 100% Bob.

My previous tests of the quoted 104dB were sustained levels (an avg) at about 8-10 feet (i can't quite recall off the top of my head but it is in the Slew of 7 speakers thread).
My big Tannoys were rated with a max SPL at 114dB although the brochure never mentioned at what distance. I'm assuming it might be at the std for measure which is 1m. The loudest they ever recorded was 107dB at 12 feet driven by a 200w Coda amp, Class A into the first 20w. I would be shocked if the Axioms could get beyond the output of those cabinets (90lbs a piece and 10 inch drivers).

On any given night, our M60s will play at 85-97dB (10 foot distance) for movies with only the Onkyo driving them. I can get clean output somewhere slightly beyond 104 sustained when i use my Anthem amp instead of the receiver but the numbers allude me at the present.
I have never intentionally tried to drive any of my speakers to their physical limits but we did manage this accidentally with a friend's set of Tannoy Saturn S6s and the Anthem amp.

In any event, they are all very VERY loud for a typical listening distance b/w 8-15 feet.



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92135 04/26/05 12:54 AM
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Thanks guys. I have no intention of turning this into "decibel wars" but maybe I'll get an SPL meter just to see what level loud is to me.


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QS8's
HSU STF-2
Onkyo TX-SR805
Audiobytes for the PC
Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92136 04/26/05 01:02 AM
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Given Axiom rates the M80s to handle 400 watts,at 95 db at 1 meter the peak spl they should be able to reach is 124 db using this spl calculator or am I missing something.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Dead woofer on an M80Ti...
#92137 04/26/05 01:17 AM
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Well if I use that calculator, I should be running my system between 112-118 for the listening area. lol

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