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4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96441 05/27/05 10:40 PM
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Tarun Offline OP
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Hello All.
I am about to venture into AXIOM territory and had a few questions. I am getting a new receiver, the HK DPR2005 which is a 7.1 receiver. It delivers 120w per channel at 8ohms. My question therefore is can I connect 4ohm Axiom's to the HK receiver without worrying about damage? What is the harm? Not quite sure I understand all this ohm business....

Thanks.

Last edited by Tarun; 05/27/05 10:41 PM.

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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96442 05/27/05 11:07 PM
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You will be fine with the H/K and a 4 ohm load.I take it you are looking at the M80s.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96443 05/28/05 12:29 AM
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The most common standard for speakers is "8 ohm impedence", so most amps are optimized for that standard. If you connect a higher impedence speaker or headphones, the speaker/phones will draw less current for any given volume control setting... and most receivers don't have a problem with that.

If you connect a lower impedence speaker to the receiver, it will draw relatively more current for any given volume control setting. Most high end products also have no problem with that, but a few will detect either too much current or too much heat being generated (both only happen when playing real loud) and the receiver's protection circuits will kick in and shut it down.

There are some funny legal reasons (some UL regulation) which prevents manufacturers from specifying 4 ohm behaviour even if they support it just fine, so you have to rely a bit on word of mouth and anecdotal evidence.

Denon, HK and NAD products all seem to be fine (any model). Most of the high end products from other vendors also seem to be fine but unless we know of someone successfully running them with 4 ohm speakers we tend to stay away to avoid the hassle.

You can see where this is going... nearly everyone on the board buys one of the same three brands and we aren't learning anything new. You will probably want to do the same


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96444 05/28/05 01:16 AM
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You should be fine with HK. Is that one of the Digital AVR's? I would assume it would be fine, just like the other HK models?

Randy



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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96445 05/28/05 01:40 AM
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That is HK's biggest and baddest Digital Path Receiver


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96446 05/28/05 02:14 AM
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Many, many moons ago I had a 40 watt/channel Technics receiver and I didn't know what I was doing really. I had some unknown bookshelf speakers. All I knew was that I wanted big sound. I happened to go to a local electronics store and found and purchased this monstrous pair of Ultralinear floorstanders. They turned out to be 4 ohm speakers. That 80 watt Technics gave these pups all they wanted and more.

Considering this, I have always been skeptical when it comes to claims that a receiver can handle a 4 ohm load vs those that can't. I'm not saying that Nad, HK and Denon aren't superior in this respect to the likes of Sony, Yamaha and Pioneer. I suspect that maybe vintage receivers drove any speaker you could through at them and there may have been a few too many cut corners over the years among all manufacturers. They all seem to have issues.

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96447 05/28/05 02:21 AM
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In reply to:

I suspect that maybe vintage receivers drove any speaker you could through at them and there may have been a few too many cut corners over the years among all manufacturers.




I have had the same thoughts.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96448 05/28/05 03:36 AM
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bridgman: I have wondered how some of these vendors have gotten away with "false" advertising? The following describes truth in advertising here in the U.S.

|"What truth-in-advertising rules apply to advertisers? |
|Under the <http://www.law.cornell.edu:80/uscode/15/41.html>Federal Trade |
|Commission Act: * Advertising must be truthful and non-deceptive; |
* Advertisers must have evidence to back up their claims; and |
* Advertisements cannot be unfair." |
|http://www.lawpublish.com/ftc-adfaq.html |

Yes Wid, you can make a link. LOL!!



The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96449 05/28/05 06:01 AM
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This brings up yet another dumb question that has my mind wondering. What happens whenever you run say, 80s as mains along with a VP150 and QS8s...mixing the 8 ohm speakers with the 4 ohm 80s on a single reciever. Not a problem?


Rick
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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96450 05/28/05 06:19 AM
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In reply to:

I suspect that maybe vintage receivers drove any speaker you could through at them and there may have been a few too many cut corners over the years among all manufacturers.


A lot of really good receivers in the Dolby Pro Logic days (PL Mk1 Mod 1) claimed to be stable down to one ohm, and with some of the loads we fed them, I tend to believe that. Weird combinations of isobaric (and esoteric!! ) home-brewed passive subwoofers (including one guy with two subs with two 4ohm drivers in parallel with the subs themselves hooked up in parallel - which is pretty much just a short as far as the amp is concerned!)... near and far field speaker combinations (tower far fields, bookshelf near fields in parallel)... various active and passive crossover systems. Most of the guys even wound their own coils!

A group of about 5 of us (a buddy and I were the youngest and had the least disposable income so we'd wait for the others to make the mistakes and we'd start building at their "last known good" designs) tried pretty much everything and the receivers just took it. A few thermal-outs here and there, but for the most part, they took it in stride.

(and for Chess and Sid - I was at Brian Reimer once when someone was demoing a new stereo amp and showed off that you could use it to arc weld thin metal together!)

Bren R.

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96451 05/28/05 07:21 AM
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Rick, keep in mind that each amp channel is driving its own speaker and it doesn't know about the others. Each channel uses the amount of power from the amplifier's power supply section that it needs for its own speaker. As long as the total power that's needed in all channels for their requirements at the moment(some very little)is supplied everything's fine. Differences in impedance among the speakers aren't a problem.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96452 05/28/05 01:59 PM
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Tarun Offline OP
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THANKS ALL.
I knew I was asking the right people the right question.
Yes...i am going for the M80's for my main fronts and then qs 4's for rear and back surround. Also eventually a vp150 for center and then ep350 for a sub. I just have to budget this whole purchase. :-))


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96453 05/28/05 03:31 PM
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So here is the decision as it stands.
2 M60's, 4 QS8's, VP150, EP350, and finally a pair of FMSQS Stands for Surrounds... All from the outlet to save the extra 10 + 5 %. Works out to about 2800 bucks...which I now need to look under every couch for.

These are all going to be powered by the HK DPR2005...or as Lorenzo put it "HK's biggest, baddest, Digital Path Receiver. (Factory Remanufactured for savings) of course.

Let me know what you guys think before I take the credit card out and hit the checkout button.

-Tarun


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96454 05/28/05 03:57 PM
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Bren, i may have to venture back into Brian Reimer to see what they have in stock now. It's been several years since i was last there.
They carry B&W speakers so perhaps it is time to re-visit for an audition.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96455 05/28/05 05:17 PM
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Sweet……..I’m sure you’ll love your new system.

Only thought I had was in regards to your sub. I’ve seen many, many times on this board where members prefer HSU or SVS over the 350. The new 500 and 600 seam to be setting new standards for sub manufactures everywhere, but they aren’t cheap.


Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96456 05/28/05 07:55 PM
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In reply to:

Bren, i may have to venture back into Brian Reimer to see what they have in stock now. It's been several years since i was last there.


Last time I was in there I was probably 19 and got brushed off seemingly due to my age. Been shopping at Advance since... and since I'm also an Advance Pro customer, I get treated well there.

Bren R.

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96457 05/28/05 09:59 PM
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Tarun Offline OP
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Thanks Again.
I have changed the sub option to the 500.
Now I have to find 3200 bucks to pay for this all.
Watch out credit card....lets go ebay sales.
:-))


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96458 05/28/05 10:32 PM
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As others have responded, when you have a multi channel receiver/ amplifier, each channel is "supposed" to be independent of the others. In other words, it does its own thing and other channels are immune to its effects.

Of course, this "demands" that you have an adequate power supply for the channels. In general, this is true for modern receivers/ amplifiers.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96459 05/29/05 02:18 AM
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Tarun:

You have made some good decisions about speakers but as MDrew suggests HSU and SVS make some great subs and they are very reasonably priced. They are both very helpful as well, if you contact them with your room dimensions, layout they will give you advice as to what would work best for you as well as placement in your room.

Good Luck!


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96460 05/29/05 01:07 PM
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Great choices!

fyi the 350 is a great sub, I like mine a lot, people sometimes look at the HSU or SVS because you can get a great sub cheaper than the 350. I wanted all my speakers to have matching finishes, so the 350 it is, and the 350 is just fine.

I'm jealous of those 500 and 600 owners


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96461 05/29/05 01:19 PM
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I'm sorry, but there is still something a bit jarring about seeing Sirquack with a blond, female avatar.


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96462 05/31/05 02:27 PM
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Sorry Bridgman, blame it on Ajax He got me started listening to Diana Krall, and I'm becoming obsessed I think

She sounds, and looks, so darn nice.

Randy


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96463 05/31/05 04:30 PM
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Gotcha! Nyah Nyah Nyah Nyah Nyah Nyah! There ARE prettier women out there, but few of them sing as well, and NONE of them play piano as well. She's s triple threat. I could understand if someone didn't find her attractive. But, as for me..................................may I say...................................WOOF!






Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96464 05/31/05 04:41 PM
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Yep, she has the whole package. We don't have to go into her talent, that is obvious for those that appreciate true talent. Her looks are just iceing on the cake.

That voice is so seductive


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96465 05/31/05 05:04 PM
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Yeah...but what does she find attractive in Elvis Costello?

(Don't go there...)

Another example of a good looking female with a geeky looking guy...

Yes, opposites attract, but polar opposites?

WhatFurrer


"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup..."
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96466 05/31/05 05:55 PM
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In reply to:

Yeah...but what does she find attractive in Elvis Costello?


Hmm.. I dunno... he's oh... ELVIS FREAKING COSTELLO?

Honestly the first time Diana Krall came here I asked "who's she?" and sat blank-faced until someone added in "Elvis Costello's wife"... ohhh, why didn't you say so?

Bren R.

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96467 05/31/05 07:59 PM
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In reply to:

Hmm.. I dunno... he's oh... ELVIS FREAKING COSTELLO?


Well, there is that.

But take away his talent and what do you have? A geeky looking guy with a gorgeous wife...

Just another observation of the "Nerd Factor" with women.

WhatFurrer


"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup..."
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96468 05/31/05 08:02 PM
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Just like Julia Roberts and Lyle Lovett, what was she thinking, at least it didn't last...


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96469 05/31/05 08:36 PM
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i think lyle lovett is sexy!!!

um, oh wait...i meant julia roberts, yea, julia..



bigjohn


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96470 05/31/05 10:57 PM
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There are prettier women out there??? Where might that be, I ask you?

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96471 05/31/05 11:43 PM
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Just my opinion, of course, but I kinda like Shania, and Faith.






Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96472 06/01/05 12:08 AM
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Jack, you have just made my day!
Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96473 06/01/05 02:30 PM
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I agree with you on Faith, good looking and talented.

Shania is very nice to look at, but her voice is not to impressive to me, kinda reminds me like Britney just my personal opinion, to nasaly.


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96474 06/01/05 02:37 PM
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It's not Shania's voice that gets me--it's the overproduced, synthesizer laden, let's-see-how-twangy-we-can-make-it-don't-ferget-yer-accent-now-boys sound of modern Nashville combined with the sappy as hell generic lyrics they throw on top of it. Gimme some good bluegrass any day.

/end rant


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96475 06/01/05 02:46 PM
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i agree Ken, but i don't think even Lester or Earl could get their foot in the door in Nashville now. it's pretty sad really.


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96476 06/01/05 02:52 PM
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LMAO


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96477 06/01/05 03:17 PM
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just the fact that kenny chesney and toby keith are the cornerstones of country, is enough to make me turn the dial..

/start rant...

and it always pisses me off when they make comparisions to toby keith being the 'rebel' of modern country music, much like johnny cash and willie nelson were in their time.. WHAT!!!???!!! are you kidding me. he tears the sleeves off pearl snap shirts, wears a straw hat thats never seen a working days worth of sweat, and he sells Ford pick-ups... what in the hell is so 'rebel' about that? gimmie a break nashville...

/end rant.

bigjohn


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96478 06/01/05 03:21 PM
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In reply to:

let's-see-how-twangy-we-can-make-it-don't-ferget-yer-accent-now-boys




Some country I can deal with, but that twangy stuff makes me cringe. What cracks me up are the 'urban cowboy' types in their cowboy hats and Skoal dip trying to blow the speakers out in thier pickup trucks with hip-hop and rap.

Love the Dianna Krall pics, she's gorgeous!



Rick
Our Room

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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96479 06/01/05 03:22 PM
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Don't forget Hank Williams Jr. or Sr. for that matter


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96480 06/01/05 04:00 PM
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well we still have our old johnny, willie, and george jones albums to listen to. hell, the most recent country album i have is the soundtrack to Pure Country. my wife's got some Dixie Chick discs, but there not really country so they don't count.


Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96481 06/01/05 04:08 PM
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Don't forget Waylon


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Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96482 06/01/05 05:09 PM
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Talk about a thread hijack....


Shag
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96483 06/01/05 06:48 PM
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In reply to:

and it always pisses me off when they make comparisions to toby keith being the 'rebel' of modern country music, much like johnny cash and willie nelson were in their time..


Everyone knows I'm a punk guy (Bren says, while listening to Meat Loaf)

But I do appreciate other types of music, old country being one of them - I grew up on the stuff... mom liked George, Tammy, Dolly and the love song stuff, dad liked Johnny, Waylon, Willy, Kris and the gritty stuff.

Now there's "nu country" that started with about Randy Travis and rolled quickly downhill from there. I'm not trying to pee on anyone's choice of music, but country, hip-hop and power-pop are probably the three genres easiest to fake it in (ever hear an NFL player put out a single? It's always twangy country-rock or rap, and every new 16-22 year old artist is fauxhawk-laden power-pop). So we end up with, as my mom refers to it "a whole bunch of kids being popped out of the shoot with a guitar and a Stetson" (I come by my sarcasm honestly!)

Then there's Toby Keith, no cred whatsoever and makes his living singing songs that any reasonable person should be ashamed to be listening to. Honestly, I haven't heard lyrics this racist since Skrewdriver's White Power album.

Compare for yourself:

Toby Keith "Courtesy Of The Red White And Blue"
Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight when you rattle his cage
You'll be sorry you that you messed with the US of A
Cuz we'll put a boot in your ass
It's the American way

Skrewdriver - "White Rider"
Your flags are unfolded, salute them with love
To fight for your race is a gift from above
Some fools will oppose you, true men will stay loyal
But the victory shall be ours for the blood and the soil

You feel love for your people, disdain for the fools
The enemy's led by the zionist's tools
You fight for your race which shall be proud and free
And the only reward that you crave is victory

One "patriotic country artist" from the US... one "patriotic boot-boy/oi!/white supremacy band from the UK". Line's kinda blurry ain't it?

Bren R.

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96484 06/01/05 06:57 PM
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the last thing i wanna do is defend toby keith, but i wouldnt go so far as to call him racist. patriotic, and proud to be an american come to mind, but i dont see him wearing a white hood, and chasing jewish and black people down the street. i think thats a stretch....

but, i still dont care for the whole 'no substance, image driven, crap' that nashville is pumpng out. thats why i have quit listening, and get my country fix from Texas country music artists. you can find a few 'willie and waylons' in ths bunch!!

bigjohn




EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96485 06/01/05 07:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 540
aficionado
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Posts: 540
regardin Toby Keith, i think the best satire of him and his ilk was Trey Parker's song "Freedom isn't Free" from Team America. totally spoofs him and all that uber-patriotic crap coming out, and in a absolutely hy-friggin-sterical way!


Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96486 06/02/05 09:21 PM
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Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
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The line between patriot and gut-thinking neanderthal is anything but thin...

Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96487 06/02/05 09:29 PM
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i agree.. as before, i dont wanna be in the position to defend the guy, but i thought comparing him to a white supremist group was a little overboard. thats all i was saying.

bigjohn


EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??
Re: 4 ohm Speakers on a 8ohm Receiver
#96488 06/02/05 09:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
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Point taken.

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