Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96801 05/31/05 03:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
How about a few more comments, both pro and con, on using M60s instead of QS8 for the rear surround speakers.

What say the tribe?


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96802 05/31/05 03:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 139
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 139
If you mean in a 7.1 system and using the QS-8's as side surrounds, then I'd have to say ohh yeah!! Because I've been thinking about that myself.

But in a 5.1 I think you might lose something (during movies) NOT having a 'true' surround like the QS-8.

JMHO but hearing from the experts on this would be interesting.



Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96803 05/31/05 03:56 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Rat, i posted my thoughts on something similar quite some time ago. Years to be exact. (Hard to find posts now i imagine).


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96804 05/31/05 11:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
It would be a 5.1 system, at least for the next couple of years.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96805 05/31/05 11:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
chess: a very interesting test. I'm going to take a hard look at the M22 versus the Qs8's specs.

That depth charge sound on U 571 is something else, isn't it. As I mentioned, the wife and I watched it again last Friday. What a difference with true Dolby 5.1, the M80s, and the VP-150.

Anyone else have comments and/or comparisons?


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96806 05/31/05 11:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 365
devotee
Offline
devotee
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 365
If you've not heard the Qs8's yet, I would reserve judgement until you do.
You will get lots of differing opinions about direct as opposed to difuse surround speakers, and I fall into the difuse camp.
The Qs8's are fantastic surround speakers. There are some on this board that have even offered the opinion that they are, pound for pound, the best speaker that Axiom makes.
Mine made more of a difference in my enjoyment of my system for movies than even my 60's.


Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96807 05/31/05 04:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 243
local
Offline
local
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 243
I run M22's for surround and love them for this job. (Listen about 50-50 music-movies) I compared them with the QS4's and just found I liked the effect that the direct speaker gave me. Although I must say that when I move to a different house I will most likely try a pair of QS8's as surround due to the overwhelming amount of praise for these little speakers.

I think that my room size and setup had a lot to do with my prefering the 22's for surround. If I had the cash I would love to try 60's in the back as I loved the extra performance of the 60's as mains in my system compared with the 22's that I first ran.



Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96808 05/31/05 04:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
I'm with you Seabear on this one. The Qs8's are probably my favorite speaker of the bunch. They do what they are supposed to do, surround you, as opposed to a direct radiating speaker. If you think about the movie theaters, especially the ones that are THX certified, the side/rear walls are lined with direct radiating speakers. The Quadpolar design replicates this environment as it was intended for home theater.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96809 06/01/05 06:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 164
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 164
I think one question you should ask yourself is what do the owners themselves have? Amie/Ian have QS8s for surrounds and since they are the owners cost is not a problem. If they wanted, it wouldnt be a problem for them get 7 M80s but they don't. Im sure Alan can also provide a much better explanation on which way to go.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't using a direct radiating speaker make the sweet spot much smaller than a quadpolar surrounds?

Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96810 06/01/05 10:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
I would go with M60s (or 22s, 2s, whatever) for a pure 5.1 music system but QS8s for a dual-use or HT system. The QS8s are very good at making your room seem much larger than it really is, which is a real plus for HT.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96811 06/01/05 11:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
If they read these threads, maybe Amie, Ian and/ or Alan could give us a few comments and things to consider.

I will be using my surrounds for HT, 99% of the time, so that is what I will optimize for.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96812 06/02/05 05:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 94
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 94
If you listen to music a lot, then M60s as surrounds I think would kick the QS8s behind. I am experimenting with M22s for surrounds because I listen to more and more music these days. For music, it's no contest.

If you watch movies...it's the other way around.

Just my opinion...

Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96813 06/02/05 11:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,034
I know what I'd do if they came out with 6.5" drivered QS10s(!)

I'd get me somma those audiophile grade DPDT switches and add me the capability to go with that which worked best for each situation!!

(Now how DOES one work around WAF-full range inexpensive M40s AND QS10s in the back of the room would be a perfect 5.1 addition to complement my M50s and M3 center up front! Wa-Hoo!)

Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96814 06/03/05 03:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
Alan: how about it, what are some of the trades in using QS8s versus M60s for the rears?

Thanks In Advance.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96815 06/04/05 03:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
Any more comments or comparisons?


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96816 06/05/05 07:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 139
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 139
I will be using my surrounds for HT, 99% of the time, so that is what I will optimize for.

If this statement is true then without question QS-8's

Also, if you don't like them they're smaller.... therefore easier to return



Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96817 06/05/05 10:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
After I received the email from JC, QS8s are the way I think that I am going to go.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96818 06/06/05 03:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
You made a great choice Mr. Rat, you will love your Qs8's, heck while your at it, order 2 pairs for 7.1




M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96819 06/06/05 03:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
B
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
Rat,
I'm really pleased with my 8's. If I had a place for backs I'd buy another pair.

Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96820 06/06/05 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
Near term, 7.1 is out of the question because of the difficulty of speaker placement. Current receiver only has 5.1 capability, but that will change "soon."


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96821 06/06/05 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840
Likes: 13
That is ok, the Qs8's will make you feel like you have 7.1, they are that good


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96822 06/06/05 10:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
I've mentioned this several times in the past, but it's been awhile so I'll say it again...

I set my room up for 7.1 for awhile and didn't find the difference between it and 5.1 worth the cost of the extra speakers and extra two channels of amplification. I ended up taking the M2i's down (I was using them for the rears) and put them upstairs on my computer. I'm enjoying them MUCH more in that capacity. The QS8's are amazing surround speakers. I honestly think 5.1 is enough for 90% of rooms out there.



Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96823 06/06/05 10:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
The QSs sure do keep surprising. I was watching a Stargate episode from a few years ago (off DVD) where there were a lot of construction noises going on in the background.

Three times I got up and walked around the basement because I was sure the dogs were getting into trouble somewhere (from the noises). None of the sounds were even remotely close to where the QS8s were mounted -- you may remember that one is mounted way high on a close wall and the other is perched about 15' away on a pair of soup cans -- I had to replay that section of the DVD a couple of times before I believed the sounds were coming from the surrounds.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96824 06/07/05 01:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
I would not be surprised that you are absolutely correct. I may get a receiver or seperates that have 7.1, but I'm not going to hook it up any time soon.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96825 06/09/05 12:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1
S
newbie
Offline
newbie
S
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1
I have a similar but not identical question and found this discussion very interesting. I have a B&K AVR 507 7.1 receiver-(150 x 7) and a Mitsubishi WS-711 65 " RPTV soon to be located in a new home with a basement room that is finished/carpeted and roughly 18 feet wide and 24 feet long, prewired with 12 gauge speaker wire in 7 locations-three spots along front wall where TV will be located, two spots on rear wall about 7 feet high with 7 1/2 or 8 foot ceiling (I think) and about 10 feet apart; and then two side spots-one on left, one on right located midway between front and rear wire locations. My questions are these:

1) Should I opt for a 7.1 system or leave two channels idle and assemble a 5.1 system?

2) Should I purchase four M80tis to use for the main fronts and "main" rears, and then use two QS8s for the two sides in a 7.1 system? Can or should I also do this in a 5.1 system-i.e. use two M80Tis instead of two QS8s on the rear wall? Or, am I engaging in overkill and/or wasting money and degrading the listening experience by going with M80Tis on the rears? I would estimate my music v. movies use is about 70% music listening and 30% movie viewing. If you have alternative suggestions about which Axioms to use and where I would greatly value your comments and suggesions. Sorry that this is somewhat lengthy and rambling-I am planning on making a purchase within the next week and would love to get this system up and running. I am not very knowledgable in this area so thanks for your time and any suggestions or opinions you can offer to assist me.

Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96826 06/09/05 01:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
Let's see...

1. Your room is a great candidate for a 7.1 system (many aren't) because you have enough length that you don't have to cram the rear speakers right behind the listener. Doesn't mean you have to get 7.1 immediately but definitely plan for it eventually. You have enough room length that the M80s can be out from the back wall a bit, which really seems to help.

2. My room is smaller than yours (13x23) but I found that having QS8 surrounds really added to the "big movie theater" experience. My first thought would be to stay with QS8 surrounds.

3. For that room size, definitely go with M60 or M80 mains. I don't know how well the B&K will drive into a 4 ohm load; if you can't be confident it will handle M80s (4 ohm) well then M60s will be mighty fine in that room as well.

4. Some receivers (not mine AFAIK) will let you play 5.1 music with the surround channel going to the rear speakers instead of the surrounds. This is great because you can run multipolar surrounds for movie effects and have the surround channels on music go to your direct rears. If the B&K won't do that then I imagine a switch box would be pretty easy to set up. I need to look into that for my room as soon as I hook up the rear speakers.

5. I don't know if the sound levels going to the rear speakers are enough to make full use of M80 rears but there are some arguments for having full range rears (the sub will carry the bass from smaller rears but the sub is normally at the front -- some people say they can tell the difference when there is either a second sub at the back or full range rears/surrounds.

6. My first thought would be M60s or M80s for mains and rears, QS8s for surrounds, VP150 center. Make sure the surrounds are mounted high on the wall and either level with or a bit behind your listening position. If you want to spend a bit less getting started, you could get most of the enjoyment from a 5.1 system and add the rear 60s/80s later. If you go with 5.1, remember to hang the surrounds further back on the side walls particularly for music.

7. PM Dennis ("Tharkun") if you want some real world experience with a 7.1 system using M80s front and rear. Pmbuko and Kcarlyle (sp ?) have also heard his system and can comment. I can't say for sure whether having M80 rears gives you your money's worth over (say) M22 rears but listening to Dennis' system is apparently quite an experience.

Last edited by bridgman; 06/09/05 01:42 AM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96827 06/10/05 02:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
sly: why don't you pose the question to the experts at Axiom? I was a little confused after all the discussion on this thread, so I asked Axiom my question. There is a place elsewhere on this board to ask them questions. JC had a reply to me in less than a day. He convinced me that I should use the QS8s not MT60s. And, that is what I will get next month. Of course, my audio is for HT not music, so there could be a big difference.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96828 06/10/05 03:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
ratpack Offline OP
connoisseur
OP Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
sly: here is what JC sent to me. I don't think that he would mind my posting it to this board.

"In a typical Home Theatre Application, you want the sound coming from the surround speakers to immerse you as much as possible. 99% of the time, you want to shy away from the acuity of a direct radiating speaker to avoid any possible chance to localise the emitting source of sound and destroy the enveloping sound field. You want and need some precision in the surround sound field but you don't want this precision to rob you of the sense of total immersion.

Axiom QS surround speakers are the perfect surround speakers. They will give you the maximum sound clues possible to create the perfect illusion of presence and will always prevent the introduction of information that could and would cause your immersion field to collapse. Axiom QS surround speakers are the ideal speakers to faithfully and exactly reproduce the movie sound engineer's intent.

Axiom M60Ti are speakers of exceptional qualities and virtues which for a Home Theatre surround sound field application will, unfortunately (in most cases), work against the desired results of the ideal surround sound field reproduction.

I also invite you to read Alan Lofft's opinion (my esteemed colleague and Axiom Senior Audio Expert) on this subject :
I also prefer QS8-type surrounds for music playback, because of the generous listening area they deliver while still retaining directional acuity for sounds or music hard-mixed to a rear channel. Others disagree on this point, believing that DVD-Audio and SACD multichannel music should be heard with direct-radiating rears. In my experience, QS8 type surrounds are superior for music because the "sweet spot" is not critical at all, whereas using direct radiators at the rear produces a very critical sweet spot. In my tests using direct-radiating rears with DVD-Audio and SACD, the illusion collapses to the nearest speaker when you shift your seat a foot or so. Using QS8s/QS4s, this doesn't happen.

Thanks again for your e-mail ! Please don't hesitate to contact me directly anytime - my contact information is below - or call the Axiom toll-free line at 1-866-244-8796 - any of our Audio Experts would be pleased to help."



The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: M60s versus QS8s for rear surrounds
#96829 06/10/05 03:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
B
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
I do love my Qs8's. I wish I had room behind me for 7.1. I'd buy 2 more.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,945
Posts442,479
Members15,617
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 950 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4