Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater CONSIDERING PURCHASE OF M40's...NEED HELP!!!

OK Fellow Axiom owners. You have all seen the m40's for 366 USD. Here is my "situation": How are they as rear surrounds. Would they make good rear surrounds or not and why or why wouldn't they. Here is what I currently have:
M60 fronts
EP350 Sub
VP150 Center
m20 rears surrounds
Yamaha Rxv1500
onkyo dvcp802 dvd player
sony 42" LCD
Listening area is approximately 2400 Ft^3
hardwood floors with 15 x 12 carpet
south side of listening area has sliding glass door that is approximately 100 ft^2

Thanks for your advice.

Any reason why your not considering Qs4 or Qs8 surround speakers from Axiom. Just my opinion, but I'm not a big fan of direct radiating speakers for surrounds or rears. And if it is because you listen to 7.1 music, the Qs8's sound very nice for that as well

There is nothing like hearing true surround affects the way they were intended.

I would suggest reading Alan's (Axiom resident expert) article in the archives regarding Surround, and direct radiating versus quadpolar technologies....

good luck


Randy

60's 350 150 4-qs8's
denon 2805
sanyo z2 projector
toshiba dvd
samsung hd tuner

Sirquack,

Thanks for your feedback. Your experience has helped me numerous times so I trust your feedback. Its hard to pass up such a great Axiom deal (I think you know what I mean...). However, if I wait until January, my wife will let me purchase a pair of Factory Outlet QS8's as well as the speaker stands. That is also a good thing.

BTW,

Another subject (I guess I just hijacked my own thread...)

This is the first time my dad has heard my system (we are listening to Phantom of the Opera). I think he is crying it sounds so good. Dad is old school: Marantz 2270, Pioneer Pre-AMP, Garrard Turntable, Akai Reel to Reel and a set of AR three ways.

Again,

Thanks for the feedback Sirquack,

Mark

Experience? Thanks Mark, to be honest I don't consider myself experienced when it comes to the world of AV. In reality I just got back into this stuff a few years ago. Seems like after I got married back in 92, I just haven't had much time to keep up with everything, especially when the kids started coming Anyway, I really give thanks to all the Axiomites(regulars) on this website, as they have resparked my interest.

ps: I have some old AR speakers and a Akai Reel to Reel as well. My dad used to be a professional singer and we still have many reel to reel's of him back in the good ole days

It is great that you have your wife on your side, I'm still working on that....

Mark, that price is certainly excellent for someone wanting to pay "final tribute" to the discontinued M40s, as Ian put it in the newsletter. As to your use, what are the M20s which you're using for surrounds? Even at the reduced price, you might be better to spend a bit more on QSs.

not to be a dink, but surround effects were intended for direct radiating speakers

Anyone know how the M40s compare to the M22s?

Reminds me of something a guy I used to work with used to say...

"Hey she's hot..."
'She's married'
"Only 'cause she hasn't met me!"

In reply to:

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not to be a dink, but surround effects were intended for direct radiating speakers

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... only cause they hadn't met the QS series.

Bren R.

Not so sure about that, if that was the case they would not have to line the side/rear walls in theaters to envelope the audience in sound. If I recall, Alan has an article that explains why your statement is false, I would just have to find it....not a big deal, I'll just agree to disagree with ya...

>>Anyone know how the M40s compare to the M22s?

I have not heard either (but am going to try to grab a pair of M40s) but from what I know they are very different animals. The M22s don't go very deep into the bass but have an extraordinarily clean midrange -- the M40s are full range speakers with nice smooth bass but (a) have the slightly recessed midrange common to M3, M40, M50 and (b) in addition, from the reviews, don't have quite as smooth a midrange as the M3s.

Good feedback.

I love the mids on my M22's and the bass is more than covered by my VTF2. But it's such a great deal...

Sirquack,

Dad liked my set up so much that I purhased him a pair of M40's for Fathers Day. He does not know so he will be blown away when two 30 something pound boxes show up at the door. I am confident they will integrate very well with his Marantz/Garrard/Pioneer/Akai/AR setup. I hope the FEDEX guy helps him carry them in the house.

Regards,

Mark

I don't know the answer to that. According to published reports, the midrange is recessed compared to the the M22s. And chesty, don't forget chesty. I guess I'll find out because I am so close to ordering a pair of these I can taste it. At the very least I believe they will make a very nice HS graduation present.

I just ordered a pair and and I got in under the wire. A word of warning to anyone on the fence about these speakers, the supply is running low. These are apparently flying out the door. The only colors left are Boston Cherry and Black. Darn, I wanted Maple. I hope junior likes them.

Freesey,

Sirquack is correct, but I'm not sure I could find the article (it's somewhere on our site). If you have a room the size of a typical cinema and you are willing to use about 8 or 10 direct-radiating surrounds lining the side and back walls, great.

But in much smaller spaces like domestic living rooms or home theaters, the use of multipolar (or bipolar) surrounds like the QS8s better mimics the wash of envelopment that you experience in big movie theaters. And the QS8s (or QS4s) retain directional acuity as well.

That's why Dolby Labs uses multipolar surrounds in its New York listening theater, which I've gone to on several occasions. It is much smaller than a commercial cinema but larger than many home theaters.

Regards,

Thanks Alan for confirming my statement

Huh... the website shows light maple available, not the boston cherry. You sure?

Yesterday Brent said they only had Boston Cherry and Black. I wanted Maple or Mansfield Beech ;(

Yeah,

I called back to double check. I got one of the last Boston Cherry, but I changed the order to Maple.

That makes me wonder which color is coming to my door??? Another suspicious little thought has entered my devious little mind. As fast as the M40s were liquidated, I bet that Ebay is going to be flooded with them soon. Either that or Chess is making a wall of sound in his dedicated 2 channel pad.

I ordered a pair of the M40s for my son. We received and set them up in his room today. After all, I was told they are no match for my M22s+sub. But, I was also told they will work ok for a music only system. I thought they will be better than those crapola Jensen's he's been listening to. I was also told they will sound similar to the M50s, with the recessed mids and what I perceive to be a lack of imaging. My apologies go out to the M50 posse. Well, they don't sound anything like the M50s. After hooking them up to his aged Pioneer receiver I was astounded. Are you kidding me. The M40s possitively kick you know what. The soundstage on the M40s is fantastic. These speakers are just perfect. There are everything I expected the M50s to be, but sadly, were not. If I would have heard these somewhere, I would have never have ordered my M22s. I like my M22s just fine, but I feel the M40s are a better all around speaker. If they lack anything I can't hear it. I got semi-screwed. I think Axiom discontinued the wrong speaker. Alou is the clear winner here.

Hopefully, I can a find a stray pair on floating around on Ebay. Dag nabbit!

gee, thanks.. i was really scared that someone was gonna come on here, and go on and on about how great the M40's were.. how fortunate they were to get them at such a great deal, and awesome they perform for 'tiny' little towers.

that just makes me even more angry that i didnt order some. so, once again. i really appreciate this.

bigjohn

Sorry, big guy. I had to vent a little.

Watch out. It's a closely guarded secret that the M40s are the only speaker known to get worse after breaking in.

And oddly enough, they're also the only speakers that prefer really really thin cables. Use no thicker than 32ga magnet wire.

Bren R. (and Peter - two peas in the same evil pod)

This is a please accept my apology for that rant plea for forgiveness. I just had to get it out of my system. It's just that those M40s absolutely took my by surprise. Junior is in seventh heaven.

Oh littlb.
I'm just waiting for the work day to end so i can setup the M40s that arrived at my place this morning. M40 vs M60 coming soon.

Have you tried moving your M22s into the same space w/ the same equipment currently driving the M40s? I would be curious to know what the room/equipment differences contribute in your case.

Thanks, littleb!!! No one's ever called me a "winner" before...at least not in a positive sense. (Do I need to make a speech? I'm wasn't prepared, but here it goes..."I'd like to thank the Academy, and my mom, and my....huh, what? my time's up already?!?")

Anyways, it's sad to see the demise of a great little big speaker (or is it a big little speaker?). I had always thought they were a little over-priced...a few hundred more than an M3 for nothing more than a bigger box. But that bigger box makes a HUGE difference.

Maybe us members of the "M40 posse" should join the "AX posse" now?

In reply to:

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I'm just waiting for the work day to end so i can setup the M40s that arrived at my place this morning.

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Hmm, that's worth quitting for, isn't it?

Lessee... I'm going into St. James tonight, but I could take a hook south... what's for dinner?

Bren R.

St. James?
Now what could possibly be of interest there.

Dinner? If i recall the wife said something about cream cheese stuffed portabello mushroom frittata.
That has wine written all over it.
Now i have to head over to the wine thread...

In reply to:

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St. James? Now what could possibly be of interest there.

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Costco... smokes and batteries.

Bren R.

Battery-operated cigarettes?! What will they think of next?

Ya know something Alou, "Everybody" who ever bought and liked their M40s is a "Winner"

When I first started visiting this site way back in the early days of this millenium, the M40 was a speaker that was bought and used quite frequently and had lots of happy reviews; by consumers both on this site, in Audio Review, and other, web sites; all was well in the M40 world.

Then there was that "Professional" review that stated that the M40 was as good as the M3 in a lot of areas, but not so good in others.(I'm sure you've read it) Unfortunately the areas that were discounted were the ones that many people thought were important enough to discount the M40s as "not quite good enough" That M40 review was followed rather rapidly by another review that stated further, that the M3 was inferior to the M22 in a number of important points. The M3 lost some of it's stature on the Axiom line-up, and the M40 dropped yet another rung.

At that point the M40s entered that slippery slope to where it ended up this week.

Seems to me that...

Some folks prefer warm, yet dynamic but comfortable speakers, such as yourself.

Others prefer somewhat more neutral speakers that don't call attention to themselves, such as Me.

Yet others prefer a more exacting, clean, cool sound, such as the average Axiom user.

Unfortunately for the M40(and the M50 to follow?)the average Axiom fan prefers the cooler, more accurate sound by something like a 15 to 1 ratio. And this is as it should be, as the Company is clearly aiming itself toward these fans of the more accurate presentation, which is a very good thing for Axiom, and their customers, as it's better to focus on one segment of the listening population and do a "great" job than to try to satisfy each portion with a mearly "much better than average" product.

It is gratifying to note that in it's dying gasp, the M40 reached out to a lot of folks and let it be known just how good they really were!
Rich.

i think i hear TAPS playing in the background..

bigjohn

Me too!

I hear it played equally well through my M3s and M50s also, but up-front and in full surround!! Really sounds good!

Oh oh! Could the fact that I don't hear it in the background mean something important?!

I wonder.....
Rich.

>>Unfortunately for the M40(and the M50 to follow?)the average Axiom fan prefers the cooler, more accurate sound by something like a 15 to 1 ratio.

That raises an interesting question. There is no doubt that sales seem to be heavily biased towards the M22/M60 family, but how much of that is based on actual preference vs. "buying what people recommend". I am actually finding that I prefer the M3/M40/M50 family sound on most music... and still find those speakers to be much more "clear" (don't call it bright ) than the competition.

When I first started paying serious attention to this hobby I believed a speaker that gave as faithful a reproduction of the source as possible the only way to go. To hear the singer inhale, or fingers slide over the guitar fret are little nuances that make revealing speakers special. Sometimes, though, this reproduction of every little sound can be tiring (at least in long term listening sessions). It's almost as if the speaker demands your attention. I find myself trying to listen into the music to uncover little details.

"Warm" of "laid-back" speakers can offer good clarity, just not the extra bite of finite details (this is a gross generalization, I know), which lend themselves to a nice smooth presentation. Maybe it offers a better presentation of what the music is offering and not what the music is hiding.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different. I think a lot of people don't have the luxury of hearing both kinds of sounds on his/her own system. The average person buys one set of speakers, learns to like the sound, and sticks with it. I'm not saying that sound is bad to begin with, just that it's good enough that most people don't search for something else.

I guess there is the other side of the coin where people do like their speakers, but just like to tinker and try different things.

I just got my M40s yesterday, and they offer a much different sound to my Monitor Audio GR 10s. I've put maybe three hours on them so far, but I like what I hear. Need to do some more listening to give better impressions.

This hobby is going to be the death of me. I don't think this sound odyssey will ever stop, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Well, until I run out of room for the stuff. . .

Hi John;

Your question is exactly the one that I've been asking myself for a number of years while watching Axiom history unfold.

At first the M3 and M40 were the two most obvious choices in the days when the speakers' cost was a very important part of many purchasers decision making. The M3 seemed to be king by virtue of its' low cost and preponderence of positive "professional" and consumer reviews.(Nobody didn't like M3s!!) The M40 was then the obvious step-up.

The M22 review was a turning point, in as much as it brought "Performance" even deeper into the picture.(and who can argue with "Performance" even if a very few minor warts accompanied those gains) Even the increase in cost was listed as a potential "positive" as the average Axiom buyer was listing "low cost"in this forum far less often as a reason for buying, and after all, you get what you....

The M2 came along and continued the Performance trend. And...

Who Can Argue With Performance?!

But if these performance reviews are carefully studied, there are a number of negatives carefully concealed within, but...

Who can argue....Right?!!

I suspect that the heavy performance ratio is two fold:

Part of it IS "Buying what people recommend" of course, enthusiasm can be very contagious. Some of these buyers may well be served better by the ever so slightly warmer(M3, M40-RIP, M50)presentation, or even further yet to the "Warm Side".

Another segment would be those folks who, while reading other forums, learn that Axiom has the cool, accurate sound that they perfer and were looking for in the first place, but at a lower price than some of the obvious competition that is so often quoted in this forum.

A third group, call it luck, budgetary constraints, a bit more time really digging and asking questions, or what have you, find that the M3 M40 M50 group is that one that serves "them" best. It can be very difficult to buy without hearing, but just as easy to make the wrong choice the first time, even for the mature seasoned listener.

I, personally, get annoyed easily. I tend to go for the "Most Loved-Least Negatives"ratio. Works For Me!!
Rich.

Hi Sean'

We are having fun, aren't we?!!

I know what you mean about one set of speaker type growing on a person. I lived that way for about a decade with the same set of speakers until the HT craze hit and then I went to an HTIB system. New HTIB speakers...hummmm....not as good as the old; better start studying!!

Went to some B&Ms and learned that I was "ever so slightly" to the Dark Side. Made getting the M3s an easy choice. And a good choice! Liked them even better than my "Decade" speakers.

Like my new M50s even better!!(From what I've been reading here, my M50s may be somewhere between M40s and MAs!)

Interesting.....
Rich.

If you start digging around the internet for reviews and such on speakers, amps, receivers, there is almost too much information. The "paralysis by analysis" syndrome. I think a lot of people want to be told what to buy, rather than finding out likes and dislikes for themselves. And, you know, I think it is difficult to narrow down what kind of sound one likes until one goes out and samples different speakers. That is easier said than done, though. It involves a lot of time driving around, dealing with salesmen, dealing with other customers (who always seem to be fascinated by volume knobs on everything, particularly when you are trying to listen to something in the same room), dealing with poor listening environments, and such. Axiom is great for offering different sounding speakers that you can audition in your own home, on your own equipment.

Speakers like the M60 and the M22 are talked about on this forum quite a bit, and I think that has a direct impact on sales. I think there was a thread sometime ago on this subject. But the best part about this forum and its participants is that nobody says such-and-such is the best speaker you have to buy, but more "this is the speaker I like and these are the reasons why." And there is no trashing (for the most part) of other peoples speakers. We all have different tastes (and budgets).

Which brings me to another point. There is an unfair preponderance in the audio world where people believe a product is good only if it is expensive. Maybe that's another reason why the M40 has reached its demise. How can I expect good results from something so cheap? Don't get me wrong, not everyone thinks like this, but there is a certain amount of audio snobbery and machismo that people associate with their stuff. In any case, buy what makes you happy and spend what you are comfortable with. It's only a hobby. There are no right and wrongs.

Oops, almost forgot, Rich--I am having too much fun!

"Maybe that's another reason why the M40 has reached its demise. How can I expect good results from something so cheap?"

I think it needed more driver thingees to appeal to the macho man in every consumer. Or at least a couple of passive radiators.

Maybe they're just gearing up for some new products.

In regards to:

"Which brings me to another point. There is an unfair preponderance in the audio world where people believe a product is good only if it is expensive. "

I believe you can make this statement about almost every market/product segment - wine, automobiles, clothing, etc.....

Very true, Mike. Obvious oversight on my part.