Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M50 Club

Just ordered the M50s from the Factory Outlet. It's a two week wait (Boston Cherry) to become a member of the M50 club.

Congratulations Rick!!! I think it will take less than two weeks though. Do you plan to use them with your Rotel RX-1052?

good deal man!! you will have to learn the 'secret' handshake now

bigjohn

LOL! Oh My God! A secret handshake too!
Yes, Skerdi...Axiom M50s driven by Rotel!
(M50/Rotel sub-group of the M50 Club!)

Too bad youse guys will never know about the secret decoder ring uz M60 owners gotz....

There's a handshake? Man, no one told me!

Congrats on the new speakers!

Yes!! another member: That makes seven for us, vs, two huntret and sixty three for the other guys!!

Yes to all: there IS a secret handshake! Unfortunately no two members have EVER met, EVER! So promoting the use of the secret handshake has been iffy at best!

And also, Yes! we did have a secret decoder ring too, but whoever had it last lost the code, it has a nice likeness of Capt. Midnight on it though. Part of the code, unfortunately, has to do with locating the present location of the ring, so according to a post I'd read in this forum in '01 or '02....

A two week wait? Uh oh, at the rate things are going around here lately, let's just hope you get them before they are...Uh..No..No more rumors!

Seriously, I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine! And maybe one day we can reach the lofty goal of having a membership of 15% of the M60 Blokes!!

Rich.

Do you remember the lesson? Oh master please teach me the secret 60's handshake.

Actually, the dropping of the M40s did kick me in the butt to get going on the order. You know, I was seriously on the fence between the 50s and 60s. Not being able to hear them, I had to consider what people said about both and had to think about physics and speaker design. I like rock, pop and dance. Never listen to classical and jazz. I just thought that the 5" midrange on the M60 handled an awful lot of the audio spectrum, 200Hz to 2Khz. While the 5" can accelerate more quickly than the two sixes and is not being compromised by the bass frequencies resulting in greater detail and smoothness, I think the sixes will push more air and provide a better punch for the music I listen to. I'm not cutting down the M60s, they must be fine speakers but I think/hope the M50s will work better for me. The lower price was nicer too.

Hey! sounds like we both spent a lot of time on the same fence!

You had some of the same concerns that I did on speaker internal crossovers; crossover points AND complexity. I wasen't excited about a crossover right in the middle of the vocal range on the M60, and I liked the x-over set-up on the M50-almost none to speak of! (the 6.5 runs free! It's internally bi-wired!)

You also mentioned something that escaped me til now: and that's how the single 5.25 handles the dynamic information between 200 and 2k compared with how the TWO 6.5s present it.

Hmmmmmmm.....! Good point indeed!!

I was fortunate in one respect though, and that was being extreemly familiar with the sound of the M3; I pretty much knew what to expect. You on the other hand are in the inenviable position of having two long weeks or so to sit and wonder!

Ouch!! That may be worse than sitting on that fence!
Rich.

I have the M22 but sometimes wonder if I would prefer the M50 sound. Anyone near Philly have the M50's? I looked on the audition link a while back, and don't recall seeing anything there. I'd have to hear them first, but I could tempt myself into getting some if I liked them. Although, then my M22's would need duty somewhere. Perhaps I can run cable up to the bedroom and use them as B speakers there, since my old junky system that was upstairs is not fitting the WAF with our new bedroom set in place. If it sounded good I would care, but it doesn't so not a big deal. It did however, contain my last tape deck in the house. Actually, I guess I do have an old boombox I could pull out if desperate to hear a tape.

Two weeks to wait is no big deal. I'm not ready to receive them. Getting rid of a bedroom set next week then the guest room will be a den with the M50s....until October when we move to Florida...YAY!!!

Rick

Hey Rich, If you want to visualize what I was saying about the two sixes pushing more air...Just pull up the Axiom floorstander screen with the M50s, M60s and M80s side by side and you can "see" where I'm coming from.

Rick

Aw rats; Zarak, you reminded me of something the Wife said I did when we tossed out our "last" Boombox.(Actually it was an early HTIB)a few weeks back.

Realizing I no longer had a tape player, she stated the I announced the need no longer existed to keep my old tape collection.

So, she said, I unceremonially pitched out all the tapes!

And She's right; I did!

What was I thinking!!?? For a few pennies and a buck or two I could have bought a player and heard the tapes like I've never heard them before!

Actually the last time I listened to them was not on the HTIB. The HTIB dual cassette decks BOTH squeaked when they played. The last time in reality was back around '98 or earlier listening to a fairly high quality "fisher" bookshelf style boom-ish box. No sub and with around a 5" full-range pair of removable speakers. "No highs, no lows, must be.....mids only.

So, what the heck(insert rationalization, here)I probably wouldn't have recognized them thru the M50s any way, with all the missing sounds restored!

Hi Rick! Moving to Florida, huh?

Looks like we'll have two people In The Same State with M50s at The Same Time!!

That "may" be a FIRST for the M50!(There may be another, I'll have to check further)

Bring warm clothes when you move down; here it is the third of June and it's been too cold for the kids to go swimming!! Here on the coast we haven't hit 90 yet this year. It's only 75 now and is forcast to hit a high of 83 tomorrow. I'm not complaining though, the usual high is normally 91-93! and that keeps the air conditioning(which is off at the moment)really humming!

Another consideration for living in Florida: I still had only my M3s last year, so evacuating for THREE hurricanes in one month last summer was easy.(I packed-up and took the M3s and my reciever with us each time!) The M50s are quite a bit larger...

I looked at the line-up of floorstanders as you suggested-rather obvious indeed, ain't it? One of the first things I noticed about the M50s is how "Big" the sound was, at least in comparison to everything else(rather limited)that I've listened to in the past.

(Psssssst....Shhhhhh....Here's a thought from someone who is obviously NOT an audio engineer....How 'bout an M80 with only one tweeter-outside of Axiom, more than one tweet per speaker enclosure is nearly unheard of-and a higher crossover from the 6.5s to TWICE the number of 5.25s? Maybe running the 6.5s free would be asking too much, but....Oh wow, they could be tri-wired!!....Nah..my budget would never support all those additional amps!!! That, and speaker wire!! Let's see...$2600 times HOW MANY teminals???)

Guess I'll stick with my M50s! After all: I do tend to listen to the Music!....not the Speakers!!
Rich.

We'll be in the Fort Lauderdale area. Not looking forward to the hurricanes. We did put accordion shutters on the house last november and the house was built two years after ANDREW with new building codes so we're hoping that it won't be blown away in the future. We're just west of I-95 too, out of the wind pool.

What about a second set of M50s for you as "B" speakers setting them side by side!!! 4 Woofers & 2 Tweeters on each side!! WOW!!

Rick

>>What about a second set of M50s for you as "B" speakers setting them side by side!!! 4 Woofers & 2 Tweeters on each side!!

Not side by side... second pair inverted on the first pair for better imaging

LOL!!! YEA! A TOWER!!

Ouch! Down where you'll be, the hurricanes are much more of a problem than up here in Melbourne. Last year was the first time we had to evacuate, and we've been here since the '80s!

Our house was built in the 80s to the codes of that time, but we managed to get through last summer with only a couple shingles missing and a few hits from flying debris. We had a few gusts above 130 mph and sustained winds of about 115, so it wasen't too bad. Our next door neighbor lost a section of outside wall but luckily not the whole house. Another neighbor lost his entire roof, so we were the lucky ones at that. What was freaky was that we lost the shingles during the First of the three huricanes that came through.....! I suspect that being west of 95 and with the codes built into your house that you'll be able to stay home and enjoy(!?)most of the storms with no problems!

Lets see now...The way our entertainment grouping is set up and due to WAF, the current M50s are stuck in open front, and back, cabinets almost exactly twice as wide as each speaker. So TWO M50s side by side WHOULD fit....I don't know how clean they whould sound but they sure whould look wild and certainly have the ability to play LOUD!!

Hey! it's a thought!
Rich.

Hummmmm....Inverted huh? Lets see, this is a new idea!!! I could go with a set in cherry and put a cherry on top of black on one side and black on top of cherry on the other to give a "new art" sort of flair to the place!!

Yeah!! And the great ideas just keep on commin' in!!
Rich.

Ten days and waiting...I'm getting antsy!!!

Not that I'm attempting to make the wait seem longer or anything, but night before last I got another "rare" chance to, all by myself, put on some of my "old" Rock CDs and, let 'er rip!!

Just the two M50s in stereo and a little help from the sub.

These babies CAN be bona fide PARTY SPEAKERS!!
They do it all!!

(Three days can be murder! Ten days must be.....)

Yea, Got rid of the guest bedroom suite and set up the room as a den. All that's missing are MY M50s!!

YAY!!! Axiom shipped the M50s today!!!!

All Right! That's before the weekend!!!

The Longest Three Days!! But the on-line tracking is Fun!

My only hope is that you enjoy yours as much as I do mine, after all, being part of the great minority....!

I'll be looking foreward to your first impressions!!
Rich.

I hope I get them on Thursday. The origin of shipment (Barrie, Ontario) is only an eight hour drive from Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Ann Arbor huh?

Last time I was in Ann Arbor was on my way to Hell!

Actually I left my car at a friends house in Ann Arbor and rode my bicycle down to Dexter for the start of the "One Hell of a Ride" bicycle "century" that went thru Hell, then to the Irish Hills and around and then back to Dexter for a jolly 100 Mile circuit. We started off early; so I like to say that "I got to Hell before it opened!"

I study everything before the purchase. I still have that bicycle; had exactly(acording to my "honestly" compiled log)14,460 miles on it when we moved from Milford, Mich. in the late 80s. The traffic is too heavy, and the terrain too boring here in Fla to do much riding since.

But I digress.....

Thursday would be even better!!
Rich.

Not to put a damper on things, but the speakers will go to Memphis before Michigan . . . that's the central clearing hub for FedEx where the little Canadian speakers promise to do their best . . . One day more!

Oh, that makes sense...

FedEx should have regional distribution centers to make shipping more efficient...It's an obvious waste of time and fuel shipping it to Memphis.

>>It's an obvious waste of time and fuel shipping it to Memphis.

I used to think that until I spent a few years working in logistics... if you are using dedicated planes and do not need to run multiple planes per night from each city to the hub then it is actually more fuel efficient to run through a single hub than to have regional hubs... since you would need multiple plane flights to carry the same amount of cargo to multiple hubs.

Believe it or not...

OK, I feel better...ESPECIALLY SINCE TRACKING SAYS IT'S ESTIMATED DELIVERY IS 4:30PM ON THURSDAY, JUNE 16!!!

Woo hoo... now we're getting excited too

The M50s arrived at 10:15am....Noon on the nose now, just turned them on...I'll let them run while I do errands. I think they need to loosen up a bit.

Congratulations again Rick!!! That is what I thought too when I first got them: they need to run for a while....

Yea, I had to walk away from the M50s after the first two songs. They sounded really thin and unrefined. I left the pop radio station on at medium volume and left the house for about three hours. They've been on all day now and they sound great. Naturally clear and detailed. Smooth with nice presence and wonderfully energetic. They have great punch with Rock and they even knocked the soapdish off the wall in the bathroom the next room over with some loud Dance music. I must say that I was skeptical about the two 6.5" woofers being able to get the job done but they do! These are great speakers! I've found that placing them 5" from the back wall and tipping the cabinets back by 7/8" with rubber furniture coasters placed under the two front "feet" makes for the best sound. I tipped them up because they are a little short compared to the height of my couch. I have to fool around a bit more to bring the bass up a little. (Don't want to touch the tone control just yet.) I'm listening to some LES BAXTER 1950's Exotica lounge music right now. MAN, THESE SPEAKERS ARE SWEET!!

Yup, sure have to agree with you guys: had to walk away for a bit also with my M50s. I was actually paying attention due to having the same thing happen when I replaced an M3 I was using as center with a new M3 I had purchased to be the dedicated center.(I used one of the M3s I had as mains as a center for a while to see if I liked it-I did)The new M3 sounded a bit rough for a few minutes.

When I received the M50s and plunked them down where the M3s had been, they sounded decidedly "Worse" than the M3s! I don't believe it was all "Ears" as I was intentionally making a little test out of it due to it happening with the M3s.

The overall harshness left after about 20-24 minutes, and the bass came in all the way in about a week.(giving an honest appraisal on the bass is difficult due to the way the speakers are situated in(yuck!)cabinets, but they were disapointingly defecient in bass for quite a while)

I eventually did have to add some bass in the receiver to bring the bass to the level of my sub(which is kept at "is there a sub in the house?" levels) I cross them at 60hz.

But after a bit they went from "worse than" the M3s to actually "better" than the M3s in many respects!

Yup; they are sweet, aren't they!
Rich.

I experienced same phenomena with my M60s, voice was a little thin, detail was missing and no presence. Also bass was a little boomy. However, everything changed in about 10 hours play (Can't say for sure the time, since I played it a little over 3-4 days, until I could really play them the 5th one).

Rick, I am sure somebody will jump in here to say that your ears needs to be adjusted and not the speakers, I am actually surprised they haven't done so already. These discussions (on "break-in") tend to turn into serious arguments in this forum, I have to warn you. However, whatever I experinced with my M60 in my own room, I know it better than everybody else....

Ya know, I really don't care what people say about the break in stuff. If you flex something long enough it will break. Before it breaks it gets looser. So go figure. The drivers become less restricted in their movement over time because the surrounds become more flexible.

thats definitely a theory..

i tend to believe its your ears that adjust to the new sounds coming from the speakers. thats my theory. this has been discussed on here a million times, and bottom line is, WHO KNOWS who is right..?

what is good, is that we all end up with a great speaker that we are very pleased with. what more could you ask for..?

bigjohn

We're back to this again?? If speaker surrounds get looser over time, then how do they know when they've hit optimal looseness and stop there?

Remember that it's more than the surround that determine how a speaker moves. The magnet and coil have a lot more to do with cone motion than the surround, and those parts experience no flex or friction.

(covering ears) la la la la la la la ....

That's true but it's the surround that restricts the movement. The surround will achieve...what I suppose would be the ideal point of flexibility and stay there for a LONG TIME until it fatigues and tears. Happened to me with my 80's vintage Large Advents with FOAM woofer surrounds. The foam tore after ten years. I bought new woofers and after another ten years the foam started to separate from the cones. I repaired them with rubber cement and dumped them May, 2004.

But doesn't Axiom test ALL their speakers from anywhere to hundreds to thousands of hours before leaving the factory? If break-in is real, wouldn't it be more likely to happen at the factory then in your houses?

We can ask Alan or Amie since I'm sure they are aware of what kinds of tests are performed on the speakers before are blessed with the Axiom seal of approval. Im (assuming) Axiom has tested speakers for countless hours in the anechoic chambers and have not heard any differences from when they were first built to end of the tests. Alan or Amie, care to comment?

Hash

This topic comes up a lot, Alan has mentioned many times that any break in, if it does exists, happens in a short period of time, like a few minutes.

It seems like back in the mists of time(like three or four years ago)the Big Guy himself while talking about speaker in-house testing used a very short ammount of time as sufficient to assure a good test. Something like a half hour or so on a new speaker. And that may even be longer than absolutely necessary.(or maybe shorter; not sure, but I am sure it wasen't over an hour and a half. Certainly not in days or weeks-or even longer)

Hi Rick; I was wondering if you have anything else to tell us about your experience with your M50s now after 1-2 weeks since you got them. Do you like them, are they better than your Athenas? How do they sound with your Rotel RX-1052? and of course.... PICTURES!!!! PLEASE!!!!

They're gone. I sent them back last Monday.
I made the mistake of taking them into the living room and doing a direct A-B comparison with the Athena AS-F2s using the NAD C370. I purchased the Athena AS-F1s to replace the M50s.

Yup, that's the beauty of the 30 day trial! We don't really know what we like til we hear them in our own homes!!

No question about it: The important thing is to get exactly what we like! And that big 'ol 8" driver should do it for sure!!

Good Show!

Oh Wow: I just went and had a look at the AS-F2s!! Woah! Not even close to the M50s!

It sure is obvious why you would prefer the AS-F1s after getting used to the sound of the F2s!

Darn!!! And they certainly are an attractive brute!

Looks like what you're running are M40s and M50s on Steroids!!!

Really good show!!

Welcome to "I sent back the M50s club."

Geez, they have a club for everything these days...

My favorite club is the one I hold to threaten people who want to take my M22s away.

Or my M50s or my M3s!!

Actually there "Are" a lot of folks who have sent back M50s. Seems to me that they fall into two main camps: Those who are drawn to the Axiom Sound, and really want the M60s. And those who want a warmer more "Traditional Hi-Fi" presentation.

To lay it on the line, I thought there was coloration in the midrange caused by the aluminum drivers. The sound you hear when you tap on the 6.5" driver is in the mid frequency range. I thought I heard it when I first got them but got used to it. (You would not hear it with an M60 because it's way out of the bass range.) The bass was never adequate. I moved them around, tipped them up, tried gym socks in the ports, etc. I eventually had to make a decision so I put them head to head with the Athena AS-F2s. The midrange coloration of the M50 was immediately evident and the bass was just not there. The Athenas have a presentation that is so full bodied and rich. The bass is very deep and well controlled...the M50s didn't come close. The value is just not there either. My AS-F2's were $300 each, my AS-F1s just $139 each. The M50s were $315 each.

The beauty of the speaker industry is that; when given enough time, every listener will find just what he or she is looking, or listening, for.

My ex son-in-law loved his Cerwin Vegas; that was cool. My son loves his little cube speakers with a module sub, that's cool too! We all love, or at least "like" what we've bought! That's how it should be.

Some folks are still searching and defining and refining just what it is "they" like.

Some of us have spent a half a century or so looking and listening to find what fits just right. It will not be, or should not be, what works for everyone else.

Post deleted by wid

Pardon my ignorance Rick (wid) but I don't have any idea what those graphs mean in terms of which speaker is better. Any insight, or link to some article would be very appreciated.

I'm sorry but I had the wrong gragh for the Athenas so I deleted it.My apologies

Reading some of the reviews the AS F2s they seem to be held in high regard..

Thyname,

Here is a pretty good article at Soundstage on how they test loudspeakers and what it all means.