Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Speakers comparable to M3ti?

Adding a stereo only system to the office at home and am working on a limited budget.

I happily own pairs of M2ti, M22ti, and QS8. Have never heard the M3 myself, but I've read plenty of positive things from you folks. I like my other Axioms, so I'm pretty confident that I'd be happy.

I thought I had purchased a used pair of M3s on Audiogon for $200, but the seller decided not to sell. I've now put a wanted ad on Audiogon.

Meanwhile, since I don't see a ton of the M3s for sale used, I was wondering if you folks have any suggestions for other inexpensive speakers (new or used) to check out that would be fairly comparable and would meet my $200 limit?

Thanks for your help.
Rich

Keep checking ebay, I guess. I can't think of anything new for $200 that would be worthwhile.

Not M3 caliber, but here's a possibility:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14991&item=5779346338&rd=1

and another:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61381&item=5779426559&rd=1

One possibility would be used Paradigm Atoms. Not as good as the M3s but likely to be available for your budget. I got a great deal on a pair for $100 CDN, if you were up here I could sell 'em to you.

I would find a way to spend a bit less somewhere else and hold out for FO M3s ($270). It's easier to find decent cheap receivers than decent cheap speakers IMO.

Otherwise, just watch the dealers for clearouts.

Thanks to everyone who replied. Unless I hear any other amazing ideas, I think I'm going to see how it goes on Audiogon for a while. Meanwhile I'll keep my eyes open for any other specials at other stores.

Otherwise, I'll probably end up ordering FO M3tis at some point. I'll ask Amie if I still qualify for the system discount because of my previous purchases.

Thanks again.

Rich

Try out the Athena AS-B2...It will be a crisper sound though. If you go to the Athena website, www.athenaspeakers.com there is a comparison review with the Axiom M3Ti and the AS-B1 which has a 5 1/2" woofer. The AS-B2 has a 6 1/2" woofer. AND, if you get them from BEST BUY (probably at a big discount), you can take them back for thirty days if you don't like them, no questions asked.

It IS interesting isn't it? I mean the references to the M3 in so many other speaker reviews. I had compilled a list of almost two dozen M3 reviews, both for the M3s individually and in reference reviews for speakers, for electronics, and even for speaker cables that far outpriced the M3s!

Are they as good as the M2 or M22? I dunno, but one test of a relatively expensive tube amp had a reference to how good the M3s sounded with it. The interesting thing was that the M3s were owned by the same tester that placed the M22 above the M3 in the first place, at an earlier date!

I thought it was cool anyway.

>>Are they as good as the M2 or M22?

As "good" as ? Absolutely... M3s (and their big brother M40s) really do sound as good as everyone claims.

As "accurate" as ? No, M3s dip down a tiny bit in the midrange and bump up a tiny bit in the bass. A lot of people (including me on many days) prefer that sound, particularly on less than perfect content. The M2s and M22s are definitely more accurate though...

One of the little peversities about the audio industry is that a lot of what we listen to is mixed on speakers whose response is more like the M3 than the M2/M22. So... if the M3 speakers have a response more like the reference speakers, but the M2/M22 speakers are more accurate, "what is flat" ?

I like to think that reference speakers are getting a bit more accurate every year but I have no idea if that is actually the case. I mean "the reference speakers used to make a track sound good on a good stereo system", not "the reference speakers used to make a track sound good on an AM radio or boombox".

Right you are, John; good points well made!

What I probably should have said to Rich, "Dad of Sam and Noah"(I "think")who(I understand)has both M2s and M22s, Was, "Are they as good to Your ears....?"

You bring up some really fun points though on "reference" speakers!(I think I've read, and agree with, much of the same stuff you've read!) I certainly agree with your assesment of the M3/M2 M22!!

One thing I find interesting about Axiom, and something that I think I picked up here and there, was that Axiom is working very hard to make their speakers "flat" but are, at the same time, working just as hard to make their speakers "Sound Good." And what is equally well understood: A flat speaker does not necessarily "sound" good. So it's a tightrope; a real "art and science both togther" situation.

What seems to make it a lot of fun, especially in forums like this, is the deal where we all can pretty much agree on what "Looks" good on paper, but we can't hardly agree, generally, within our own Posse' about what "sounds" good! (OK, ok, that's an exageration!)

Hey,absolute agreement whould make for very boring forums, wouldn't it?: We'd only be able to argue about which would be the "Best" finish to have on our identical sounding systems!! This way is much more fun!!

So, Viva the....
Rich.

F107 and Bridgman--

First, F-Man (if I may call you that ) you are right. Sam and Noah are my two sons.

Anyhow, I have read all of those reviews of the M3, and have noted their comparisons, like in the review of the Athenas. That just makes them all the more attractive!

I do love my M22s and M2s (and my Magnepans), but I'm just looking for a set of standalone (no sub) stereo speakers for my wife's home office. Hence, the desire for the M3s.

And I got myself one of those Sonic Impact T-Amps to power this thing, so it's as much for me (in the end) as for my wife. So, unless I get an incredible deal (and I am looking at some Athenas <$100) I'll try to buy some of the M3s. I just need to be patient. I want 'em, I need 'em.

Thanks again to everyone.

Rich

OK, since everyone knows that there is NOTHING comparable to the M3ti, I've decided that will be the solution!

Am in the middle of a transaction that should save the day. Thanks for everyone's advice/suggestions. I did research several alternatives, and almost went down a different path, but have seen the light.

By the way, I do love my M2s (which my 12 year old son now has in his room in his first stereo), and the M22s (which are in the HT set up). There are times that I wish the M2s had more bass, so that was why I was looking for the M3s for a small stereo set up.

I've got the Sonic Impact T-Amp all ready to go with a power supply, got the Dell DJ filled with tunes, and now just need the speakers. Should be ready & cranking tunes by Fri!

Take care,
Rich

Hi Rich!

Glad to hear you decided to try the M3s and that there wasen't too much of a budget problem.

I have not heard the M2s or M22s so I have nothing to compare to, but my understanding is that the M3s don't sound all that horribly different! so you(hopefully)won't find a major, disturbing, variation!!

Seriously though...

The M3s should prove to be an ideal "office" speaker and give you really good tunes at a reasonable price!!

We'll be looking foreward to hearing your thoughts on them by Friday evening!!
Rich.

Hello Rich,
You might even find that you prefer the M3's for music listening, over the M22's. Congratulations and good luck.

Ola mace

I agree. I had a pair of M22s, a bunch of M3s (I keep giving them away because I love them!) and still have a pair of M2s. For music, I think the M3s are the pick of that crowd.

Hey 2x6--

You're the freakin' reason I'm doing this!!!

Did you notice my set up will be with the SI T-amp? I talked my wife into getting this set up for the home office. What I'm hoping is that:

1) She'll think the speakers are too large, and
2) I'll have to swap them out for something else, and
3) I'll get to set this up somewhere else in the house.

Devious? Nope. I'm too transparent, and she knows what I'm up to. I just hope she doesn't love it too much. And I bought 3 of the T-amps to leverage the shipping fee.

To hijack my own thread, I know you already did some mods on one of your T-amps. Can you tell me *how* you did them? I'd like to have real inputs and binding posts. Will it require soldering? I haven't tried to solder anything since I was about 11 and made a right mess. The need to solder is also what has kept me from getting one of those power supplies you recommended instead of a wall wart.

Any advice and/or references will be greatly appreciated. (Soldering for Dummies?)

Take care,
Rich

Heh... Just got back from Baja, and here's the thread I was going to start! I'm thinking about the exact same thing, along with the same problems! (Including convincing my wife!). Looking forward to seeing the replies here.

I have some Athena b-1s coming in a few days. I can report back if anyone is interested.

$105 on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009WRV1A/qid=1118896191/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl23/102-2408694-7528921?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

2x6 will likely have more info on this, but I thought I'd share some of the useful info that I've found. I haven't modified a T-Amp yet, but I will be trying soon.

Some step-by-step basic mods
Parts and Mods list
Michael Mardis has done a lot with the amp, and he answers questions. A pretty informative site with diagrams, etc.
Class D Forums

Hope that helps.

EDIT -- Yes, lots of soldering

Good links Jonathan. Looks like I may have to open my T-amp up and try some new things.

Merkaba--

Those are some pretty amazing links. I did some searches, and didn't find 3of those 4, so thank very much.

I may need to learn to solder after all...

Rich

No kidding. I learned how to flux solder back in junior high, but that was a long time ago. I have all the equipment needed, just need to get some confidence (and practice).

No problem. I'm in the same boat; not much DIY experience and having to learn to solder. Luckily, my Father knows all about that stuff, so I'll at least have someone to tell me I'm doing it wrong.

OK, here's my contribution. Some links to beginner's guides to soldering:

Basic Soldering Guide

How to Solder

Sounds like practice is the key.

I'm open to any other sources (particularly with helpful tips!) anyone may have.

Rich

Hi Don;

Report back;

We are!

Thanks for the links Richard!

Well, after about 15 minutes of listening - the athena b-1s are pretty good. Kind of like a lesser M22 - not as smooth or as nice or as much bass, but quality and that high end detail / forwardness.

I just wanted a cheap but decent pair of speakers for the bedroom and these were about $100 for two.

Good job Don!;

It's not everyday that we can get something so similar to what we really like at such a reasonable price!!

Now you'll have to swap them in and out with your M22s and M2 to give us a new comparro with Athenas!!

Hope you have better luck than I did. Picked up a used pair of Paradigm Atoms for $100 -- nice little speakers by all accounts. I was real happy with them until I made the mistake of A/B-ing them with my M2s, then spent the next 9 months trying to figure out what I should replace the Atoms with.

Fortunately Axiom cleared out the M40s which ended my misery.

Whatever you do, don't let us talk you into A/B-ing the speakers

Uh....Um...yeah,...makes sense.

Hey Don.....uh,

Never mind.

Geez, sorry... I replied before I saw your 10:13 post.

I listened to the M22s last night and then put the b speakers on and went to the bedroom - same receiver and same cd.

I am not going to do that again!! The athenas are nice. The M22s are stupendous!

I am hoping to be happy with the Athenas. I probably will a/b them like this again (not a real a/b test I know) but not soon. I want to like the athenas and not compare them to incredible but more expenxive speakers that I can't afford to buy more of at this time!

Ideally I would buy some ascend cbm 170s that I hear are close in quality to the M22s and have a real good time a/b-ing them.

More money leaking out of my wallet to tickle my earbone. I will resist for now.

I was kind of toying with doing that, but they are a little more expensive than the FO M3s, so...

Golly darn it, Don; Now I feel bad!!

When John suggested that you not compare, I thought about it a moment, and had to agree.

But then you went and done it anyway!!

But we always ask for comparrisons! It's the Axiom way!(Maybe it only applies to inferred vastly superior speakers, I dunno)

Hey! I almost bought some ascends a few years back. The specs and reviews etc. were great! They were just soooo uuuuugly!

I compared them before you suggested it. I have both pairs hooked up and when I move from the living room to the bedroom - it is an a/b comparison of sorts. Enough to tell the difference, anyway.

I think the ascends look fine - not nice like the axioms, but decent and three different finishes now.

Uh....Hmmmm...!

Ya know; it's been years since I'd last seen the ascends.

Maybe I'll go take another look just for fun!

That Was fun!

They've made a few changes and added a dandy MTM!

The 170s still look a little dumpy, but the new finishes help that a lot!

I like your a/b set-up; I hope to do the same soon when I can manage to get my M3s into the dining room system. I just have to make a final decision on what to do with the existing surround update: Either QS8s(I'd love QS10s with 6.5" drivers if they were ever produced)or another set of M50s to replace the M3s in back. The third and cheapest route is a small sub to help with the frequencies down to the 60hz x-over point that the rear M3s are set to. Then there's the Frankenstein Jr. Center.....Oh Gads!!

The M3s work great in back and I don't really know why I should want to change, but....

Lets have a poll: Which is more fun; listening to our systems, or planning for the next upgrades?

(At my age, I can't always plan on completing the upgrades, so when I make a decision, I update my Will to be sure that the changes get made if there's a delay in shipping.)

That was funny

Hey you could put me in your will and I will make sure the speakers get changed according to your direction. And there will be someone there to listen to it!

Have you compared the M3s to the M22s or M2s? I had some M3s and thought - why not get a little more and got the m22s based on most of the advice here.

I realize you use them as a center and surrounds and that you have M50s. Just wondering what the differences were to you between various speakers.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=ST&Number=86248&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1

Here are some notes from my M3 comparison with M2 and M60...

Sounds good Don; if I ever make a decision and have to change my Will.....Hey, the Wife and I "listen" but the Grandkids don't....(well; at least not yet!)

The main reasons I din't go with the M22s or M60s is a loooooo-ooong story.....

Goes back to the early days of this "Millenium" when the M3 was king and the M22 was just being noticed. What "I" noticed in those days was that nobody didn't like the M3s, but that while the M22s were in many ways considered a better speaker design with even more promise than the M3, the M22 had a few minor warts in the "Professional" reviews that I'd read. One was sibilance, another was perhaps being a bit "bright", another questioned as to whether the coloration(if any) was the more accurate and pleasant to listen to one. One test said they took a long time to "break-in!"

So three reviews of the M22 found some questions, and a few more of the M3s didn't!

When it became time to upgrade to a larger speaker for a larger listening room, the process of choosing started all over again! This time with the M50 VS the M60!

The only complaint I ever heard about the M50 was that it didn't sound enough like the M60!

There are very few "Pro" reviews of either the M50 or M60, so I didn't have much to go on but my own personal opinions of the M3 and the understanding that the M50 is remarkably similar. From the reading on the M60(in this forum and elsewhere)that was available, it is seen that the M60 has a number of the same concerns that the M22s had displayed.(These are not as important to someone who is extreemly into listening to their speakers and looking for that last little detail, and dosen't mind the ocassional annoyances that are produced by poor quality materials, or even accurate reproductions of foul sounding noises, but are terribly annoying to someone who has a tendency to "Look for" the warts and finds them distracting) The M60 is also reported to be somewhat more "foreward" sounding than average.

My understanding was then, and still is today, that the differences between the speakers isn't actually all that great, but there are differences.

The last thing that clinched the M50s purchase was my satisfaction with my M3s. I have lived with the M3s for quite a number of years now and have never heard an unsatisfying sound! I've had other speakers-going back more years than I like to admit-and found other speakers that sounded great for a while, but that for one reason or another began to annoy after a bit. The M3s did't, they've sounded great from the git-go, and still do! I'm sure there are tons of other quality speaker companies out there that I would be equally satisfied with, but I "found" Axiom first. And I could't be happier with the M3s or the company that produced them!

My M50s blend with the M3s about as well as the room will allow; As close to Seamless as you're gonna get! The M3s, as center, are the dominant "sound" that is heard, the M50s pan extreemly well for effects, and tunes are about the same as the M3s but are, in my opinion, somewhat better than the M3s, not just for greater pressence, but for a somewhat stronger, more accurate midrange as well.

This, however is the Axiom forum, so I have gotten in the habit of trying to remember that the average "Axiomite" is, by about a ten to one ratio, in favor of the "M60" sound. And while the late M40 has gotten a lot of good press lately, the fact still remains that the M3 M50 group is in the minority, and most of the people drawn to this site are more likely to prefer the more accurate sound. So I am extreemly hesitant to recomend the speakers of "My" choice! Even though, to me, anyway, they sound "Great"!!

Don't feel bad about recommending the M3/M50 line. I think you summarized the issues in choosing between M3/M50 and M22/M60 families extremely well.

Now I'm going back upstairs to listen to my M40s

Yup, I'm gonna go listen to my M50s as well, but....

There's a dispute.....!!

The Wifes NASCAR race is on at the Same Time as my Formula 1 race!!!

The tunes or action DVDs will have to wait!

thanks for the summary. I had the M3s but returned them to get the M22s - based on what most people, including Alan, said. Probably wouldn't have gone wrong either way.

The important thing is to get what makes a person happy! Like I said; only one in ten prefers the M3! You were already familiar with the M22(as I was with the M3 before getting the M50s)so you went with what you understood and had a fondness for-which is as it should be! Better that, than to get what you don't like and end up badmouthing my babies!(that way we'd both be unhappy!)

This way we're both satisfied customers!

Good choice!!
Rich,

>>Like I said; only one in ten prefers the M3!

Just to nitpick -- one in ten BUYS the M3. We don't know how many people PREFER the M3. I bought M2s then M60s but when I got a chance to listen to M3s it was clear to me that I should have bought M3s first.

I stand corrected, a bit embarrased, but happy.

Bit by teeny bit maybe we're getting the word out to those who'll listen and perhaps consider the alternatives!

(Or maybe we should just keep the good stuff to ourselves?!)

Nah,...too good to keep secret!

First, I want to thank everyone for their inputs & feedback. As always, this is a great bunch.

By way of quick review, I think the M3s sound great. Haven't had a chance to do any really critical or comparative listening with these, and I'm working with a new little T-amp that I haven't powered anything else with. I've got so many different variables changing at once that this is far from a controlled experiment! On top of that, I've got a 14 month old daughter who's been keeping me busy, and her bedroom is right above this office so I can't go crank the stereo when she's asleep.

Anyhow, the fronts of the speakers are lined up to the front edge of a 16" Elfa shelf. The tweeter is about 5'6" above the floor, so about ear height (for me! ) when standing. So the positioning is far from perfect. I used the T-amp with a little portable Samsung CD player and Dell DJ as the sources. The room itself is about 8' x 13', and the speakers are at one of the shorter ends of the room.

I like the presentation. There is a good amount of bass, and the overall sound seems very clean. Wouldn't say that I heard any warmth per se, but it certainly sounds fuller than what I recall of the M2 without a sub. Material ranged from the new Slightly Stoopid CD to Jack Johnson to Stones/Beatles. Since this system is in my wife's office and will be for background music as she works, it isn't going to be used for critical music enjoyment. I think it will be easy to enjoy in that context.

What I'm hoping to do in the near future is separate some of these variables. I'll bring out the M2s I have, and compare to the M3s using both an existing amp I have as well as another T-amp. I'll report back when I get to do that.

Thanks again to everyone.

Rich

>>The tweeter is about 5'6" above the floor, so about ear height (for me! ) when standing. So the positioning is far from perfect.

If you haven't already done so, inverting the speakers might help a bit. Just make sure the front edge of the speaker is level with or overhanging the edge of the shelf.

Inverted speakers on a medium-high shelf has always been one of my favorite ways to place a speaker. No idea why, it's just worked well for me in the past.

Bridgman--

Thanks for the idea. Actually already tried that. Since the primary listening position is sitting, that change in position didn't make much of a difference. That might be something we try again for an extended listening period.

Could be that these particular shelves need more bracing, but do you not ever have issues with vibration when you place your speakers are shelves?

Regards,
Rich

Hi Rich;

It sounds as though you have the right speakers for the right job: The M2s for critical listening, and the M3s for absolutely everything else!

I guess anyone stating the M3s are warm could be considered just a bit inaccurate at that. I'm guessing that "Warm" has more to do with the bass hump emphasisng the bass a bit. Perhaps the terms "comfortable" "relaxed" or "pleasant" more fit the style of the M3.

And yup, being vertically symetrical is a good thing with M3s; I use all three of mine inverted! The surrounds as well as the center!! Gets the tweets a little closer to the ears at that. Does it help? I dunno; but, it seems as though it...uh...should. (I didn't shave my legs when I rode a bicycle a lot, but some of my friends did, they figured the aerodynamic benifits would make themselves apparent after about 150 miles or so, so...)

Yes, by all means give us an update when you can get around to a good comparo. We're trying to get as good and accurate a data base as we can to be able to give others, with similar questions, the best answers we can!!

(Not to mention reinforcing our own prior decisions!!)
Rich.

I angle my M22s down with something under the back end to angle them toward my ears.

By the way - I got the opportunity to get some ascend cbm 170s for $250 and went for it - pick them up tomorrow. I held out about five days I guess.

I'll be very interested to hear what you think of the 170s.

$250 seems to be the going price for used CBM-170's. Enjoy!

Alright then!!!

Good speakers, great price!!(Or maybe Great speakers good price!)

Uh,...only average Will Power though, But, Good Job!!

Even more comparos to follow?! This is getting interesting!!!

Hi Curtis!

I realize that you're deep into Ascends and only follow Axiom as a ...uh...er....hobby.

But seeing as you're familiar with the current pricing on used Ascends at least; do you have any idea of what the going rate is for used M3s?

I need a set for my dining room system but don't wish to use my surround M3s quite yet! (We'll need another set further on down the road as we are into recrational cooking and will need another pair later on in the kitchen) I'd rather use used M3s in the kitchen than a pair of my pampered and babied M3s in pristene condition!

I would imagine used M3's would go for around $200-250.

All Right!!

Have you seen any? And where are they!!

This is cool!

Well, 10 minutes of Ascend 170s vs. Athena B1s vs. Axiom M22s.

I think the Athenas tip up the high frequencies more than the Axioms and the Axioms more than the Ascends. The Ascends and Axioms seem to be close in terms of quality, more detail with the Axioms - but someone without mild high frequency hearing loss may say the Axioms are more piercing. I like both sounds very much.

And I like the Athenas a lot as well. I can't bear to sell them so I am putting them upstairs in a large room where they may get little use.

When I switched from athenas to the ascends I thought - where did the detail go? I think it is just some getting used to the less detailed or less exaggerated high end sound.

The Axioms stay. The Ascends will stay most likely. The Athenas need to be close by so I can listen to them often. Maybe with my father in law a half mile away?

I will try to provide more detail of what I think of ascends vs. axioms - but that has already been done in a much more careful way by three guys on this board somewhere. So, I might not have much more to add. I am not really A/Bing them and I am not measuring the loudness and adjusting the reciever so that the comparsion is fair.

I saw some M3s on ebay a few weeks ago. Keep checking.

Audiogon may have some too - but I haven't seen them there.

Thanks Don. It doesn't have to be scientific, just honest. Your opinion is your opinion, and I, for one, appreciate you're posting it.

Curtis has it in the right range, but runs a little high.

Having just done this for a couple of weeks, it looks like most have gone for ~ $200 before shipping, which typically runs ~$25. I was following Audiogon and Ebay like a hawk.

So, getting them all in (ie including shipping) for $200 is an excellent price, and $225 is pretty typical. But don't forget to ask whether they were FO, age, condition, etc.

Let me know if I can tell you anything else.

Rich (proud owner of M3s!)

you are talking about the M3s? (Average used price about $200 plus shipping)

Yes, sorry I wasn't clearer! I responded to Curtis' email, and then couldn't remember who actually asked, or I would have addressed you directly!

Take care,
Rich

All right guys! Thanx for all the info on used M3s!! The price ain't all that bad at that!!

Now all I have to do is figure out exactly what it is I want to do!! Then I'll know how many M3s I'll have to buy!!

I have a total of three M3s currently in use in my living room system along with the M50s as mains. I will eventually require a total of four M3s for the dining room and kitchen systems.

One of my M3s is used as center. It works beautifully in that roll, but...I would prefer an even more full-range speaker in that position. I don't have enough height below the screen for a vertical M50, and to put one on top(inverted)comes off looking like a smokestack, and there's strong WAF against that!!(Shucks, I would't care much for that style myself!) I'm also considering a 2x6esque Frankenjunior.(A canibalized M50 in a custom built box the same internal vol as the original)to mount on top of the TV.

That may free up one M3.

Now if Axiom would only build a truly full-range center(twin 6.5s and ported??!)

I love my other two M3s as surrounds! Not bad range. But not FULL range!!(Dang; I wish I could have managed the M40s!!!)Two M50s in back would be nice; so would twin 6.5", ported, QSxx's, if They were ever produced!!! Another alternative is a small sub to augment the M3s down to their x-over at 60hz.(the one option I currently favor as most reasonable and flexible)

New surrounds would free up two more M3s.

I'm really excited about how well my current set-up is tonally matched, and wouldn't want to lose that! So whatever I do cannot be allowed to be a step backward!

Anyone else ever notice how Axiom is about the only major company who is not offering full range speakers other than the mains?

Hmmmmm.....there's always the 25th aniversary!!
Rich.
(Equally proud owner of M3s and their much maligned bigger brothers; the M50s!)sorry, couldn't help myself!! I REALLY dig my speakers!!!(TOO!)

>>Anyone else ever notice how Axiom is about the only major company who is not offering full range speakers other than the mains?

I know of some "really" full range centers (eg. the Onix Bigfoot) but I don't remember seeing any "really" full-range surrounds. Lots of companies offer full range all round but all they are doing is saying "buy another pair of our mains, buddy". Am I missing something ?

I probably should have said something like "more fuller range" or something like that.

I'm using M3s as center and surrounds, and while they do a pretty good job down to about 70 or 75hz or so, I'd really like something good and flat down to about 50, to be able to cross really well at 60hz.

I've bounced back and forth a goodly number of times crossing at 60 and then again at 80 and back again, and find 60 to be the more satisfying setting.

I get good "presence" in my mains, but it's lacking in everything else! And, at least in my system, and to "my" ears, it is noticable.(Plus the dang voices keep sneaking back into my sub at 80, and That's downright intollerable-yuck!)

I guess all I'm saying is: How nice it would be(at least to the M40 and M50 crowd, if nobody else!)if Axiom would offer a line of 6.5" drivered, ported, center and surround speakers. They may not hit 50hz, but they may get acceptably closer for us who desire such a thing.

>>How nice it would be(at least to the M40 and M50 crowd, if nobody else!)if Axiom would offer a line of 6.5" drivered, ported, center and surround speakers.

Amen to that. There are two options, I guess -- offer 2-way speakers to match with M3/M40/M50, or (assuming these will be high end) make at least the center channel a 3 way to match the M22/M60/M80.

I'm still looking for that "M60 reborn as a center channel" myself

Yup! With those choices, Everybody would be covered!!!

Now with the 25th aniversary coming......(wishfull thinking)

Although it would be nice if it would go lower, I'm pretty happy with how the VP100 matches the M50s. It's a nice speaker, and now I've got the complete Axiom woofer collection! 6.5, 5.25, and 4!

Cool set indeed!

Now if you just could have had the "older" QS4s.....(with the hybrid tweet!)

Rats! My collection only has one of each! I really feel left out now!!

I'm not that eager to have a full collection. I like my modern tweeters!

Yeah, I suppose;

Kinda like when I traded in my 78s and 8 tracks....!