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Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98815 06/18/05 12:13 PM
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old hand
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Your Correct! A speaker that subdues sibilant source material would always sound dull and lifeless.


Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98816 06/18/05 01:54 PM
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Seeing the freq range that the sibilance falls within, and understanding that all the current Axiom speakers have the same tweeter, could it be infered that the reason that some Axiom speakers seem to exhibit more sibilance is more related to the mids reproduction, to wit; the 5.25" mid?

Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98817 06/18/05 02:20 PM
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Alan has pointed out once or twice that the "midrange dip" in the M3 family of speakers is related to weaker off-axis response in that frequency range from the 6-1/2" woofer relative to the 5-1/2".

It might be interesting to do a "sibilance hunt" between the 5.5" mid family (M2,22, 60,80) and the 6.5" mid family (M3, 40, 50) to see how they compare on and off axis. If only we had someone with both speaker families and a bit of time...

Chess ?


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98818 06/18/05 02:43 PM
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Yeah, that's the idea!!

That'll resolve it!

I can only comment on the M3s and M50s and another "lesser brand" speakers, "In my room" so I can't actually say much with any authority. But Chess, on the other hand....

Good Idea!!

Hey Chess!.....You there?

Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98819 06/18/05 03:21 PM
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mdrew,

No speaker is perfect; indeed, like that other transducer, the microphone, loudspeakers and microphones are the most imperfect links in the audio recording and reproducing chain. As transducers--the microphone, a converter of acoustical/mechanical energy into an electrical analog waveform that represents the acoustical energy, it is vulnerable to resonances and all kinds of nasty deviations away from linear, flat frequency response.

A loudspeaker, also a transducer--it has to convert the analog electrical voltages back into acoustical pressure that eventually impinges on our eardrums as "sound", or at least that's how our brain interprets those pulses (yet another conversion!).

The domes and cones of dynamic speakers (as well as those membranes and ribbons of other designs) have to rapidly pump back and forth without flexing, overshooting their mark, and without "breaking up" or resonating, an almost impossible task.

It's astonishing how convincingly well-designed speakers do this--reproduce music (and I do include Axioms in this category). However, we are always seeking to improve specific models with endless double-blind and single-blind music listening tests and technical anechoic measurements. Since I joined Axiom four years ago, that's been an ongoing process (and it existed before I came to the company) and particular models have been improved and changed.

Sometimes there is a change in the model number (the M2i, for example) but more often the change is an ongoing one.

I have never stated that any of the Axiom speakers are perfect reproducers, but I will state that my favorites in the Axiom line are among a handful of very revealing, transparent and natural-sounding speakers (given well-recorded source material!) that represent extraordinary value in terms of neutral sonics vs. price. Some of the other brands that I would also cite retail for many multiples of Axiom's prices, and regular visitors to these boards know the brands I've mentioned in the past.



Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)
Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98820 06/18/05 03:39 PM
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Smart guy that Alan.
If Axiom scrapped the existing model line, some folks would be very disappointed, IMO. Perhaps, to appeal to pop/rock listeners another line (maybe the "Rock Line"?) could be developed? More bass, less tweeter, recessed mids? Slap some rainforest veneers on them and there you go!


Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98821 06/18/05 03:50 PM
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Interesting thought John.

First i need some 'sibilant' source material. If anyone has suggestions of better known music and a particular track (or possibly a movie for that matter, our dvd collection is growing) that consistently has the sibilance they find nagging, i can try sitting off axis and do some A/B switching b/w the M40 and M60 to focus on the S sounds.
Keep in mind the M40 does not have a dedicated midrange though so lack of sibilance might be coming from that driver and not the tweeter as so many ppl tend to immediately blame.
It would almost be better if i unhooked all the drivers in each model except for the tweeter and then did some listening for sibilance.




"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98822 06/18/05 03:53 PM
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axiomite
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In reply to:

If Axiom scrapped the existing model line, some folks would be very disappointed



I think so too. The M40s are lovely for their price. The M50s are what i recommended to my brother. Personally i love the midrange clarity that the M60 delivers but if i had started with the M50 as a speaker, i doubt i would have been disappointed. Compared to the cheap crap at the same or higher prices found in box stores, the M40-50 speakers are superior in sound.



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98823 06/18/05 04:02 PM
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In reply to:

Since I joined Axiom four years ago, that's been an ongoing process (and it existed before I came to the company) and particular models have been improved and changed.
Sometimes there is a change in the model number (the M2i, for example) but more often the change is an ongoing one.



So the next question is, given the fact that the models have had tweaks over the past number of years since their release (not new news), are tweaks still occurring with the present models or has Ian been diverting his attention to other projects?
e.g. obviously the new subwoofers are in the process of first release and tweaking, but how about the models that have been out for several years now and already gone through the process?
I'm doubting the M40s are up for any further tweaking at this point.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: Sibilance - S's overstressed
#98824 06/18/05 04:09 PM
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M
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Thank you for taking the time to post a response Alan. What I’m asking for may very well be impossibility. I doubt it, but I’ll at least entertain that thought. I may be asking a speaker to do what electronic components need to be doing -as the system in my truck. It automatically changes X-over and tone settings when it recognizes pre-programmed CD’s, or songs. Well, at least the ones that I’ve taken the time to do that with, which isn’t very many, because that’s a complete, bother to me.

Well I think I’m going to flutter on back to NeverLand now. I don’t think I like RealityLand very much. Too much bickering and my CD’s are sibilant bastards.


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