Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Sibilance - S's overstressed

Chess, The M40's are discontinued.

In reply to:

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Chess, The M40's are discontinued.

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Yes they are, hence my comment about having doubts as to any future tweaking of that model.

>>First i need some 'sibilant' source material. If anyone has suggestions of better known music and a particular track (or possibly a movie for that matter, our dvd collection is growing) that consistently has the sibilance they find nagging, i can try sitting off axis and do some A/B switching b/w the M40 and M60 to focus on the S sounds.

Agreed. The challenge will be finding material where the sibilance is "borderline", ie is subtle enough that reasonable people might suspect it to be caused by the speakers rather than the material. Any recording with blatant, hissing sibilance isn't going to be much of a test because everyone will agree that the recording is at fault.

So, folks... we need examples of those recordings where "Axioms show sibilance and Monitor Audios do not show it" (you get the idea).

I think I have the perfect CD for this. My father-in-law recently sent us a CD by a Portland-based band named Pink Martini. The CD is titled Hang on Little Tomato. It is an excellently performed album, and is excellently mastered, as well --- with the exception of a couple vocal tracks which contain minor but noticeable (at least on my M22s) sibilance.

I think it would be a perfect demo disc for this purpose. Plus, if you're looking for new music that is quite infectious, this one fits the bill.

I could burn you a CD and send it to you. Too many projects to take care of right now, but if you PM me your address, I’ll get it to you in week or so.

But I have to ask, what’s the real determining factor that a CD is badly mastered? The reason I ask, is that there are numerous tracks on several of my CDs that have repetitive cymbal taps / crashes, and they all just …kinda sound as if it were one long crash. But the vocals and guitar strings sound very clear and distinct, and there is no hiss between tracks or quite times during the recording. Off the top of my head, Breaking Benjamin has several tracks that have this trait.

Peter, i need music or dvd selections that i already own hence my request for something more common.
I don't think Pink Martini tomatoes are in our repertoire.
Any other thoughts?

I do have one song that is bright to be sure. It is a disc by The Sundays esp. a song called Summertime. The song just rings. But if no one else knows this song, it is not of much use. I can try it anyway and will do so tomorrow after we go look at a house, but if there is a more common disc that ppl know and agree is sibilant, i will give it a listen on the M60 and M40s and see how the Sss come out.

Chess,

OK, I actually plopped my but down in front of my speakers and listened for some ‘more popular’ metal/alt rock CD’s that I think will show you what I have been trying to get at. IE: CD’s mastered well that seam to demonstrate sibilant characteristics of my set up. If you don’t have them, I’m sure it wouldn’t take long for you to find someone who does. All four have / had tracks on top 10 charts recently.

Breaking Benjamin – Saturate. Pretty much the whole darn CD. My ears are pretty fatigued if I listen to this around 90 db’s for very long. (90 db’s is about my norm). I really like this group and am pretty disappointed that I can’t crank it up and enjoy it through my home system. In my truck, it sounds great, and that’s running everything flat.

Seether – Disclaimer II. This CD has some mellow songs with laid back vocals and six string guitar that sounds awesome, and then it has some pretty hard tracks with lots of cymbal, electric guitar, the typical screaming and heavy drum. One song, that is still on the radio (Broken), is a collaboration with Amy Lee (Evanescence lead singer) so I’m certain that it will be easy to get your hands on. Again, similar sibilant traits on some tracks, while some of the slower tracks sound terrific.

Three Days Grace – no CD title. I don’t what the deal is with one but the friggin cymbals drive me nuts. The third track, I Hate Everything About You is a popular track. These guys are pretty new but they’re gunna be main liners before long.

Revis – Places for Breathing. Same as Seether, both hard and mellow tracks. If you can only find one of these four CD’s, this would be it. It has several tracks that will start out slow with guitar solos that I can hear the pick striking the strings and hear finger tips squeaking on the strings, then the track will speed up to heavy guitar and start to sound, well, not so hot. This CD is really popular right now. The first track, Caught in the Rain is up on the charts. Actually, if anyone thinks that alt rock / metal is nothing but noise, I’d highly recommend you get this CD. It might just change your prejudices toward this type of music.

I’d be really interested in your opinion on these, and what it is about the troublesome tracks that make them sound like crap on my system. Maybe they are all simply, recorded badly. Or, I’m even open to the idea that when mastered, the engineer intentionally does manipulate things to make them sound different for a target audience. At this point, I’m open to anything.

On another note, it was mentioned earlier in this string that boom boxes and vehicle systems are not in the same league as High Fidelity home systems. This is not entirely true with regards to vehicle systems (no argument with boom boxes). There are just as many folks who put just as much time, money, research and effort into Hi-FI systems for their vehicles as you all do with your home systems. I went to great pains piecing together a system that was geared toward SQ, and not just SPL. About six months of research and asking hundreds of questions, about 5 grand and a week of work later, I can honestly say it sounds very impressive. I’ve probably got fifty pounds of sound proofing alone, just to get the acoustics right in the vehicle.

posted in audiocircle by a person name 'eric the red':

"The majority of cds sound like crap. A better cdp will make the majority of already crappy cds sound even more like crap. You may hear more inner crappy detail and higher crappy resolution of the already crappy cds with a more expensive cdp, but they will still sound like (you guessed it) crap. Too many poorly recorded cds is the problem. I'll bet those Ellis 1801s will REALLY bring out the flaws in crappy cds compared to the Twins."

However, if you buy a really expensive CDP that uses vacuum tubes, it might sound like God himself has re-mastered your music collection.

Sorry mdrew.
I've been away busy with personal matters. I won't have time to do the listening until a bit later this week (i hope). But i will get around to it.
I'm working on getting a new switcher right now that might also make things a bit easier.

I'll keep you posted.
Just offhand i do not have any of the cds you mentioned, however, my wife is always into new music so i'll ask her if she is familiar with some of the bands and we can do some music purchasing in a day or two. I did go to the Breakin Benjamin website and the sample songs were interesting so that could be the choice. However, if you come across any other music, let me know. Hard rock is not exactly our genre of choice and rather rare considering we probably have pinches of everything else except punk. Virtually every cd of hard rock that we do have sounds harsh on the ears to some extent (just the content i think).

I cant' comment on car stereos much except to say that acoustics are impossible if not because of road noise, because of the inherent interior obstacles in the car.

Riffman, that post was quite humourous.