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Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99192 07/19/05 03:33 AM
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ratpack Offline OP
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Do you think that your Denon just naturally runs hot? Seems a little strange that it would be hot with the "majority" of the power load eliminated. My old Kenwood runs pretty cool even when I run it loud, but, then again, everyone knows that loud to me is not necessarily loud to them.

I thought that you said that you noticed a difference in the sound quality. With just the center? With just the fronts? With center and fronts?

By the way, the Samsung 6168s are being delivered. I hope to see one at Tweeters this weekend.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99193 07/19/05 03:36 AM
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axiomite
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My HK runs hot at idle, and only gets hotter when under load. 7 channels doing nothing still burns a bunch of power.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99194 07/19/05 11:23 AM
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ratpack Offline OP
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This is strange. Most of the receivers/ amplifiers that I have been looking at claim power efficiencies of 80% or more using class F, G, H (or something else that wasn't invented when I was in college).

So where is all the heat coming from? It shouln't be from the power amplifiers, especially when they aren't doing much.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99195 07/19/05 01:33 PM
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axiomite
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Ahh, you're looking at fancier stuff than me. As far as I know the HK amps (except for the digitals) are good 'ol class AB, which does dump some waste heat at idle (although not much, multiply it by 7 and all of a sudden you're getting warm).


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99196 07/20/05 12:02 AM
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<<I thought that you said that you noticed a difference in the sound quality. With just the center? With just the fronts? With center and fronts? >>

With only one on center. Center sounded better. With 2 on fronts. Fronts sounded better. With 3 on center and fronts. ALL sounded better.



Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99197 07/20/05 12:07 AM
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It seems strange to me because the monoblocks are cool.

Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99198 07/20/05 12:41 AM
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axiomite
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There is something tricky about the way the outlaw monoblocks work -- something about a low power class AB amp plus a high power class "something else" that automatically kicks in as the volume goes up.

Ahh, here we go -- "The Model 200 operates as Class A/B power up to 80 watts, transitioning within 2 microseconds (2 millionths! of a second) to Class G above that. This allows a remarkable combination of signal quality, high power levels, high efficiency, and low operating temperatures without the use of a cooling fan. The transition to Class G is absolutely inaudible, because the 2 microsecond transition lasts about 1/25th the duration of a single cycle of 20 kHz audio. For the Class A/B operation mode the output stage uses four 15-amp bipolar transistors, while the Class G operation employs two 40-amp high-power MOSFETs. "

http://www.gspr.com/outlaw/200.html


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99199 07/20/05 12:58 AM
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I understand the cool of the monos. Part of the reason I bought them. It's the warm Denon that makes me wonder.

Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99200 07/20/05 03:11 AM
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ratpack Offline OP
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When I was in college there wasn't any such thing as class "G."

Guess that I'm old as dirt.

I going to get a set of definitions of these new classes of efficiencies and print them out for ready reference.


The Rat. M80s, VP-150, QS8s, SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO, Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880 Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
Re: 7 Channel Amps
#99201 07/20/05 03:32 PM
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I am truly gun-shy about eBay nowadays. I think many people are as characterized on The Simpsons where Homer purchased a cowbell off of eBay. It broke in his hands after ringing it and he yelled "Damn you eBay!".
Any way I had purchased my Monitor Audio GR-60s off of eBay after making sure that the speakers were in new-mint condition. When I received them the base plinths were all beat up and they were missing the gold cones and floor discs. I had to go the way of an insurance claim to make things right, however the fault was not the shipping service, it was the seller. The point is that eBay is not what it used to be and deals are few and far between. You do not get what you pay for. Too many people selling on eBay are deceptive and just try to sell their abused goods. This of course is just based on my experience. I have had a lot of good experience on eBay as well. You really have to do you research on the seller. If they don't respond to your emails or edit your email so that they are not answering the original question or they have ANY negative feedback, move on.

That being said, if you can find eBay sellers in your area, that would be ideal so at least you can inspect the equipment. Some of this equipment is just too much money to not get what you are expecting.

eBay's feedback system does not work either. You can not leave feedback after three months. If a transaction takes longer than three months due to a problem that requires action by the seller, good luck in getting any further cooperation after leaving negative feedback at the three month mark.

I was tempted to buy an Anthem PVA-7 off eBay but received no response to my questions about the product. (alarm bells ringing). Too much "buyer beware" for big ticket items.


Sooooo, aside from all this paranoia talk about eBay purchases does anyone have any price comparisons between Anthem and Sherbourn? From my local sellers Anthem PVA-7: $3000Cdn plus tax and Sherbourn 7/1250A power amp: $3400Cdn plus tax.

I'd like to hear from those people with experience in going with three channel amps (main left and right and center) and leaving the surrounds to the receiver. Is this marginally acceptable, i.e. do you find it will be a temporary measure versus an acceptable permanent solution? Are the power levels of your receiver the same or close to the separate amp(s)? I currently have a HK AVR-320 (5.1; one of my problem purchases from eBay) but eventually want to move to 7.1

One avenue of thought I had come across stated that purchasing (as an example) an Anthem AVM-30 and using the internal amp(s) of the receiver would yield dramatically better results. This of course was a temporary measure for economic reasons to those who would eventually purchase separate amps.

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