Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Swap M60 for M80?

What I was getting at, is that folks get too rapped up in the whole loudness debate and start throwing mathematical scenarios into the mix. …..”it takes twice as much wattage to get 3 more db’s of volume”. That’s not the point, or reason to go with a higher current amp. What a person should strive for, is to get the cleanest supply of power they can afford. A mainstream 100 WPC receiver will not typically have a great power supply. On paper, going with 200 wpc amp would be overkill, but in reality, it’s just the next step up the food chain in cleaner power.

If one were to rely strictly to mathematical theories and calculations, then a five watt amp would be all that anyone would ever need.

Jon, I think Thasp was replying to Mdrew concerning the "screwing the math" part.

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50 watts and 500 watts won't matter because you're using such a small fraction of the 50 watt amp's full output power..

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That's a rather broad statement don't you think ? How is it you know everyones listening habits ? There have been folks I know that went from a 75 or 100 watt receiver ( not cheap crap either ) to a good 200 watt amp and are very satisfied with the upgrade.Folks can quote theory after theory and it doesn't amount to a hill of beans until a person listens for themselves.Audio is such a personalized thing that only one person can make a judgement like that and that is the one who is doing the listening.

Amen Wid.

Of _course_ it'd make a difference in some situations. However, I was replying to the fact that people claim that they make a difference at low volumes also,

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There is a better over all sound at all volumes

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which simply isn't true IMO, in the case of comparing two well designed amps. 50 wpc, if you listen at reasonably low levels, would be more than enough. If at most you use 10 wpc on a dynamic peak: wheather the amp can deliver 50 wpc or 500 wpc wouldn't matter, was my point.

I'm sure there are people who can blaze through 100 watt amps easily in big rooms with dynamic source audio played at high levels. I like lots of progressive metal that has clean dynamic peaks that, in a big room, could probably get a 50 wpc amp to clip easily. I'm also sure that those 7.1 100 wpc receivers you see in kmart or costco will suck since they're not well designed, but a well designed amp that isn't extremely powerful will do just as well at low levels as a higher current amp.

If you're looking for volume into a 4 ohm load - definately go for the outlaws. Even receivers that can power a 4 ohm load usually don't do it as well as an amp can since they have to fit so many amps into a very cheap box. You'll get much more volume.

Check the Yamaha 2*00 measurements at audioholics: into a 4 ohm load, even their $1000+ receiver has problems with a 4 ohm load, so I would definately recommend seperates for a 4 ohm load

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There is a better over all sound at all volumes

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I can see the point you are trying to make but neither one of us can tell the op of that statement that they are wrong.We have no idea what they are hearing.That's my point.Like I said before it only matters to the one doing the listening.No amount of theory and mathematics will convince a person otherwise if indeed they hear a difference.

Yes, unless we're unconcerned with reality we have to be concerned with the math. At the moderate levels mentioned, Dr. Ohm's math teaches us that the speaker is using no more than a few watts of power and less than an ampere of current; discussion of high power or high current in that context is therefore meaningless.

Our ears and our other senses often can deceive us and we simply can't "just trust our ears", in the silly phrase whose origin is lost in antiquity, but may well have come about when a desperate audio salesman could come up with no factual basis for his claims. The only circumstance in which we can reasonably trust our ears is in a properly controlled blind test in which all factors are held constant. As Dr. Toole commented to an AES meeting during a presentation on blind testing techniques:" If you can see what you're listening to, you can't hear it".

The Stereo Review blind listening test can again be pointed out; the results compared with the before-test comments of some listeners illustrate that the sincerity of their beliefs couldn't change the fact that they were wrong.

Well, a second Amen to Mdrew and wid, gosh (did I just say gosh???) I am not here to promote seperates or amps or anything else, I KNOW what makes my Axioms sound better. I had a Sony (I am not ripping on Sony - as I don't want to offend anyone!) then went to my Yam 1500 and it sounded much better, in my present set up there is literly no comparison, same room, speakers etc. just sharing a great sound experience, not a tit - for - tat.

Oh don’t worry about it John. This is like discussing evolution or God. I’d prefer to believe that I was created, and am not an ape. Although I’ve been told I act like an ape from time to time. Uh-oh……maybe I did waste a bunch of money.