Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater HT on the DIY channel - Interesting

Last night, I was flipping channels and came across what I believe was the DIY channel and they were covering some home theater installations.

First, the 'expert' on the show explained some basics of HT etc. and then went on to some installations. The guy installed a power conditioner and the host of the show asked "what are the benefits of a power conditioner" and the guy explained that it acts as a power surge protector and that it also filtered out 'dirty power' and stablilized voltage. One of the things he stated was that a power conditioner filtered out any unwanted radio frequency. Do they really do that? I thought they just stablilized the voltage and also acted as a power surge protector. The host then asked "will a power conditioner make a difference in sound"? The guy replied that it depended upon the quality of the power conditioner itself and the quality of the other components as well. Then he summed it up to say that in the right situation, the difference they can make regarding sound can be night and day.

Secondly, how does one get 'unwanted radio frequency' in their home theatre system? I worked for my Dad for a while just after college and I recall the airport traffic controllers (airport was only a few miles from work) were sometimes clearly audible over the company phones. Is that an example of radio frequency interference?

Lastly, I did see something I had never heard of. There was some baseball player who had this really nice setup. The center channel was placed behind the movie screen. It was explained that the screen was specially designed to allow sound to pass through the screen without any degradation of sound or picture quality. Also, they claimed that vocals appear to come directly from the actors rather than from above or below the screen. I didn't even know that was possible.

Line conditioners, do stabilize voltage, and can remove some frequencies, sense they are basically big capacitors, and transformers.. this is where you would have to go into electrical theory.. so yeah they would do what the guy said, but the only way they would be worth it to you is if you had a large variation in voltage, and your equipment was very voltage sensitive, which nowadays the stuff is designed to work on a pretty large range of voltages, the only way they would make it sound better is through the amps.. as far as the actual signal, most of the time it is digital, so that’s not a big deal, it’s the amp part that will see the difference as the amp will have a constant voltage, so will have a more constant output. Couple of the guys on the board have line conditioners, and one said he didn’t notice a difference at all, he just got a good deal, so he went for it.

On the screen thing, that’s not really that big of a deal, a lot of the screens are “acoustically” transparent. Would be the ideal position for a center channel though, right behind the screen…

Yes, I watched that show too on DIY channel, very interesting, especially for room treatment and acoustic insulation of walls, floor, etc. Now I know what to do when I get rich :-)

As for the line conditioners, I purchased top of the line Belkin PureAV PF60 a month ago. I did not notice any improvement in my system though... However, over time, I felt something was missing, a certain OOoomph! in my sound, so I plugged my RB-1080 Rotel 200 wpc power amp directly in the power line, and guess what!!! Sounds much better now, I felt like something was refraining my speakers!!! I may probably be wrong, it is probably in my imagination, but I really feel so, even now that I am writing this, while new Cryonic Temple CD is blowing my spekaers (thank God everybody seems to be at work in my apt. builduing!!!! )

Anybody any idea what is happening with me regarding my line conditioner and power amp?

Darn....I wish someone whould answer your questions too!

I also viewed the series and was seriously considering getting a conditioner as well.

Here in Fla we have daily afternoon thunderstorms with attendant lightning strikes and power failures. We also have rolling "Brownouts" even on sunny days. So power stability is not something we can count on.

I've been religeously using "Surge Protector" strips with pretty good luck, but would rather use something better to help with low voltage if I felt it were prudent and appropriate.

I'm not into "Snake Oil" but proven technology is good!

So...Help Guys; anyone??

Ok.....Here we go!!

Gonna run off now on a quest to learn all there is to know on these here "Power Conditioners"(Ok, ok, within reason)

What they are, what they do.

Myth?

Magic?

This'll Be Fun!!

A Belkin, huh?

I just started looking at these things(like Crutchfield, parts express. You know, the obvious first looks) But I do have a question: does your conditioner have the progressive plug-ins? The ones where more current is delivered, as needed per product type, at one end and not the other?(I found a blurb on Belkin and that was one of the features, just a thought)

Rich, well-designed audio equipment handles power surges of hundreds of volts routinely. At the other extreme, nothing would help in the case of a direct lightning strike. A very close lightning strike on the power lines might send a surge of many thousands of volts, but this would burn through the house and/or equipment wiring before it got to the equipment. Surge protection strips which sell for $20 or so may be of some benefit for intermediate strength surges which would otherwise reach the equipment. So far as times of low or no voltage, this is a minor annoyance in my view, but there are some rather expensive items such as battery-powered uninterruptable power supplies which can be used. Power conditioners as such are hogwash, since this is what the transformer, rectifier and filter capacitors in the power supply section of an amplifier already do.

Hi John;

Thanks for the responce, just what I was looking for.

It was the DIY series that got me into questioning what, "until then", I figured was just some additional "Snake Oil" to appease the wealthy audiophile trying to add that nth degree of improvement regardless of the cost.

But it was the series, the use of these things by audio enthusiast at "my level" and the unfortunate fact that we did lose an inexpensive, low quality, semi-ancient, portable B&W TV set during a severe thunderstorm back around 1992.(but absolutely nothing else in the house was damaged)that got me to at least "Take a Look" (Actually, "looking" was as much for the entertainment value of the research as anything else!)

Right after that admittedly rare incident of the apparently lethal and unusualy close to the house lightning strike, I did purchase some "Surge strips" and never had another problem.(Which is kinda like a theft deterrent on your car; was it not stolen cause of the theft device, or the fact that nobody tried to steal it?) Or was that poor ancient TV particularily vulnerable and just on the verge of dying anyway? I wonder!

Do the conditioners help improve audio performance? I dunno, but if they do, I certainly wouldn't notice it on my simple, but carefully wired, system; but do they help with "Rolling Brownouts"? Ah, that's the question uppermost in my mind as the brownouts "are" something that we have to contend with here in this area almost daily in the summer. Sooo....My question was simply:

Seeing as we have never suffered system damage due to an obvious low voltage incident, but understanding that continuous low voltage damage "May" be a "potential"(and yet to be determined)threat, and noting that my equipment does eventually shut itself down when the voltage does eventually get low enough(during a storm, Not during normal service), that I thought I "Might as well" take a look at these devices-"Just for Fun"!!

Which is where I stand at this moment: Having fun seeing if one of these thingies "might" help forestall some system damage due to poor quality, often low voltage, erraticly delivered electrical service!!

So then....Thanks for the input; it pretty well mirrors what I thought I already knew before I started looking, and what I think I still know now!!(huh?)

Really!
Rich.

In reply to:

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But I do have a question: does your conditioner have the progressive plug-ins? The ones where more current is delivered, as needed per product type, at one end and not the other..

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Yes it does, and I plugged my power amp to "amp" plug that is supposed to be dedicated to high current devices. For more info you can check Belkin Site on PF60

Brick Wall Link has a high current surge protector with no MOVs. Supposed to have conditioning as well.

Aw Phooie!

Well.....guess it was a lead...

.....that lead nowhere, darn.

Hmmmmm.....

That Brick Wall unit is a good looking device with very good reviews! Thanx for the link!!

What it does, it does well! What I "think" I may need, though, is something that protects more on the low voltage side.

The Wife hit me with a real goodie this morning also(she pays the utility bills)She informed me that, when we bought this house last summer, that the electric bill had something about "Surge Protection" in it's listings! And that we've been paying for it for the last year. Sure enough, upon closer examination of the power box out back, there's a funny little box attatched with some silly little lights on it that I just never paid attention to before!

Turns out we've been paying the power company EXTRA to cover ourselves for the poor service supplied by the power company! But for the inverse of where my concerns lie!!

Now don't THAT beat all!?

Guys, a line conditioner can be a good thing, depending on how crappie your power company is.. And or how large the load is on your local power plant, vs the power plants ability to produce power. Line conditioners are designed to maintain a constant voltage/ frequency. The frequency part isn’t the big part.. it’s the voltage part that you must worry about.. When the city wakes up everyone turns on electronic devices, and creates a larger draw on the power company-> the voltage available to everyone’s house will go down. And when everyone goes to work and turns everything off the voltage will go back up again.. same thing happens in the evening, if anyone is interested enough, you can hook up a volt meter to a plug in your house, and watch the voltage change, early evening the voltage will be 120 dead on probably but as everyone gets home from work the voltage will probably go down a bit maybe 5 to 10 volts.. This is where a line conditioner comes into play, what a line conditioner will do is it will maintain the 120 volts, even though the incoming voltage may be going down.. Now with your amps and electronic devices if you maintain a constant voltage, they will operate the “exact” same and should provide a better sound.. this is only true with analog devices though. Digital devices are MUCH less sensitive to voltage changes.. so the only part of your home theater that could “truly” benefit from a line conditioner is the amp that you have… be it a stand alone amp, or an integrated amp in your receiver.. Sense the amps are analog and work on varying the voltage, that the amp will put out, there for varying the amount of current that your speakers see and the volume/control of the individual speaker, a very constant input voltage is the best way to get exactly what you want as an output.. Kind of like crap in = crap out..


The problem with the line conditioner that you have restricting your amp, are you sure that the line conditioner can handle the current that your amp is out putting. Does it have the same amp rating; I would imagine that it does not. For a line conditioner to work effectively it should be rated at equal to or greater than the device you are plugging into it.

A line conditioner does not maintain a constant voltage that would be a voltage stabilizer.