Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners EP350 vs SVS PB-12isd vs HSU STF-3 vs Outlaw LFM-1

Alright, I finally have decided that I am only going to consider four subwoofers:

Axiom EP350
SVS PB-12-isd
HSU STF-3
Outlaw Audio LFM-1

All these would have a final price shipped around $650. Spec wise pretty similar subs all 12 inchers. What are your experiences with these subs and for $650 which sub would be the clear winner of the four. I just need to end my misery of deciding on a sub. Buying the M60's, VP150, and QS8 was not this hard in deciding.

It may be hard to find someone with experience will all of these subs. For me it was about wanting all my speakers to have the same finish, Mansfieldssss with black grills.

Can't help you much accept to say the Outlaw's sub is an Hsu design.

looks like a much different hsu design...both ports on the bottom...interesting...
i love my hsu stf 2..however it does clip sometimes.. partly my fault as it isnt calibrated yet....but great bass, if i was in your posistion, id wait and get an ep500 thats what im craving now...the stf-2 just doesnt have the "punch" that i want

i have the same setup with the 350 and i do not yearn for another sub. i heard the outlaw and it was very good and you will be very happy if you choose it. but i wanted my sub to match my system (colorwise)and after having the 350 i can say for me it is just as good as the outlaw.
Jake

You would love the EP500.

The matching sub had a high WAF.

I can only speak to the Outlaw, I'm very happy with it, it provies a lot of punch and musicality. Although Mr. Hsu help design it, it is not the same design as the Hsu subs, but it is very similar. Some people seem to think it is somehow "bad" that it's designed by Mr. Hsu. I guess they assume if it's designed by him, why not buy a Hsu sub? The Outlaw sub was, last time I checked, a little cheaper that the Hsu sub that is closely resembles.

I do not speak against the Outlaw. Quite the contrary. I think is was wise of Outlaw to invite Dr Hsu's design input. The fact that is cheaper is a plus. IMHO.

I am also very happy with the Outlaw LFM-1. As well as performing well beyond my needs sonicly it makes and excellent end table. I got it last summer when it was offered with free shipping. Shipping is now free with the addition of an outlaw sub cable added to the order.

All the other speakers are boston cherry and I am going to be putting the sub in the corner where the loveseat and sofa don't connect. Might put a plant on top of it to add to the room shaking effect. Therefore having a boston cherry sub is not that important since not many people are going to see it. The outlaw does look very attractive price-to-spec wise. I don't think i will need a $1000 sub like the EP500. I'm looking for an accurate but still can feel the bass at all times of various media types, music and movies.

The room is going to be 12 x 18 so a fairly moderately sized room.

Briant, you can't go wrong with any of those choices. There will be no clear-cut "best" of that group and any of them will handily meet your needs.

I have the PB12-ISD. It is a monster. I wanted a down-firing sub rather than one that matched my Axioms. I liked the idea of the "plate" on the bottom since I have it set on carpet. I liked the idea of buying something that supports American manufacturing jobs.

I'd agree that, in that size room, you don't need to spend the extra money for an EP500-class sub.

I am not familiar with the Outlaw but the other 3 subs are excellent subs and all have good CS. I have the PB12-ISD and I don't have the gain/volume above 35% and it still shakes the room. The beast refuses to be ignored.

Just wondering, is there any difference in a downfiring and a front firing sub? Still sounds the same right? Or is the only reason you have a downfiring sub is to not damage the woofer from kickins?

No sound difference.

Jeez... I hope this doesn't get me banned from this list, but....

Has anyone else wondered what's going on in the part of Nautec's Avatar that's NOT visible?

Only you would wonder that Mark.

I also have the Outlaw sub in a fairly large room. I meets and exceeds all my needs. Tomtuttle heard the set up with the Outlaw. May want to get his thoughts on the sub.

i think down firing is easier to place. and since you said you will place in the corner between the 2 couchs and that it wont be seen i would say you can not go wrong if you get the outlaw especially with the free shipping i forgot that extra shipping cost is also what pushed me over the edge to get the 350 instead.
Jake

Mark, it's not what's happening in the lower half of the cropped image that you need to worry about. It's what's happening in his mind.

Giggity giggity giggity!

I thought lomb7's Outlaw was very nice. Since I did not hear it in the same room as my SVS or have an extended listen, I cannot ascertain a preference between the two. I think both are very capable.

I would have went with the 500 had the price been a bit better. But I went with the stf3 mkii and I am very happy. I will say though that it might be a little too much sometimes, The thing is LOUD and hits really hard. Right now in my existing house which is somewhat small, the sub is overkill. But I'm trying to find a bigger home, and that's why I got the stf3. Great bargain, and it was free shipping as well.

Have you considered the VTF Hsu sub line instead of the STF. More power, deeper bass $750 shipped for the VTF3 MK2. Heard all the Hsu's at his headquarters in LA. The VTF3 was a monster. . . had to have it. . .love it. Also available in cherry.

Sorry didn't mean to add more options to the list but. . . .

Well, $600 was kinda pushing the bank limits already. I am pretty sure the VTF3 MKII would be a fantastic sub.

It just occured to me that the EP350 can be had for $585 if i went b-stock.

YES....With free freight and the love and respect of Axiomites everwhere.

and the VTF-3 for $560 b-stock, and the STF-3 for $480 b-stock.

Axiom's great, but HSU's %20 discount on b-stock products is elite.

Of course most companies have different criteria for "B-stock" than Axiom, eg they will include returns and rebuilds whereas Axiom FO is only "cosmetic defects".

Not saying one is better than the other, just reminding re: the difference.

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Of course most companies have different criteria for "B-stock" than Axiom, eg they will include returns and rebuilds whereas Axiom FO is only "cosmetic defects".

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Where is that stated? If true, what do they do with their returns?

'Tis true! 'Tis true! Returns are sold, on the cheap, to employees, family, and relatives. Alan says so!

Wow.....thanks Jack!

ummm......can I get adopted?

You're welcome, and GET IN LINE. It's not easy trying to get s couple in their 30s to adopt a 60 year old. I keep emphasizing that I've already got my college education, am past the drugs and booze, and won't crash the car. They keep mentioning the costs of nursing homes and medication. I just can't win.

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You're welcome, and GET IN LINE. It's not easy trying to get s couple in their 30s to adopt a 60 year old. I keep emphasizing that I've already got my college education, am past the drugs and booze, and won't crash the car. They keep mentioning the costs of nursing homes and medication. I just can't win.

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It's not very often that something puts a smile on my face, but you got me that time!

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....and won't crash the car

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isn't that one debateable?

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It's not very often that something puts a smile on my face

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OOGA BOOGA!!






Didn't work, did it

I've always wondered what the prices for b-stock HSU stuff was. Now i am curious what b-stock for HSU really means. I know that b-stock for axiom means no problems but Axiom is picky unless Axiom hates you but for $560 for a VTF-3, kinda have to wonder.

As the good doctor himself stated, in a way the B-stock are better than the A-stock because they go through a more stringent battery of tests.

I watched them test out my B-stock VTF3 MKII at the CA headquarters. It was really cool. They make sure the amp is working properly and check for vibrations in the cabinet from 100hz down to like 10hz, 1 hz at a time. It was pretty cool watching the speaker move back and forth so far and not hear anything but still feel bass in a warehouse!

Dr. Hsu stated that when the Subs leave the regular manufacturer that the don't do as many tests on the amp and speaker as he does.

I would not hesitate to buy. The previous owner probably returned because it produced too much bass and they neighbors made him return it.

Of course all this promotion for Hsu, I would really love to hear the EP 500 and 600. They immediately tempted me but am so happy with the Hsu that I will hold off for now.

I have read on the HSU forums that some people who bought B-stock subs had their amps blow out. But since warranty was still good, they sent out a new amplifier for you to install your self. That seems like a reasonable deal. Also looks like HSU is coming out with some sort of VTF-3/HO turbocharged model soon. The VTF-3 would meet and far exceed my needs for $560 + Shipping.

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....and won't crash the car



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isn't that one debateable?

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I only put about 3000 miles a year on my car. Chances are very slim. By the time I'm old enough to be dangerous, that nursing home will minimize the risk.

advance warning though. The VTF3 is not kind on your wives china and other things ( i.e. crap) I speak from personal experience

Poor porcelin angels didn't stand a chance.

oops

I am all for "sub destruction" but the wife's china? Ouch! Somebody was going without some for awhile.

Funny, I think my wife would be overjoyed if a sub destroyed any porcelain angels in our house...

I like my Outlaw. Just don't tear them apart if you're a woodworker, you'll be disapointed. But I suspect that's with just about all mass made boxes.

Mine wouldn't work when I got it. Seeing how I can't leave anything alone, and I happen to mr. frigging just gotta fix it or be damned........it came with a loose terminal adapter. A little squeaze with the kliens and all was good.

No problems sinse then.

It looks pretty cool too. Although the plexi glass top will scratch very easy.

I've got to say, I kind of like the bedliner-type finish on my SVS. Bulletproof. Plus, it is just about the right scale for a decent end table.

I love the finish, too. I was blown away at how accepting my wife was of its presence in our smallish living room. Its WAF exceeds that of the M22s!

You're kidding! Pity my wife doesn't like it... On the other hand, I have been pleasantly surprised by how good my old Cambridge Soundworks Subwoofer 1 sounds with my system, now that I have it cailbrated proper-like.