Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater QS8s Ordered/ Now For The Separates

I ordered a pair of QS8s today along with the stands. With the exception of a new sub, that should complete my new speaker assortment.

Now, comes the hard part! I have been looking at separates to replace my old Kenwood and I just don't really see a processor that fills my bill. There are several amplifiers that look very good, but most of the processors don't have HDMI/ DMI inputs or outputs, or software upgradability.

I was thinking about just getting a new amp right now and just waiting on the processor. Maybe that is the thing to do.

Other than waiting or getting another receiver, anyone have any suggestions? Maybe I'm missing a brand or two.

As far as I know there aren't any pre/pros (maybe the new outlaw 990??? ) that have HDMI switching. As for the QS8 there pretty amazing. I have them paired with monitor audio s10 fronts and a monitor audio SLCR center and they blend so well that at times you can't tell if the sound is coming from the front side or rear. It's just all around you. it took me a while to get used to it because I was so used to direct radiating speakers.

Rat,

Are you looking for 2, 5.1, 7.1? What price range have you decided on? I know you've looked at and posted to many forums. I don't know what you could have missed.

As long as your current receiver has pre-outs for an external amp I would get an amp for the fronts now and wait for a processor later that is more to your liking.

My vote is find the processor, then the amp will match. Looks much cooler if your components match, unlike socks and underwear.

Not positive, but I think one of the Parasound Halo units has what you are looking for. Pretty spendy….but very nice.

Who says my underwear and socks don't have to match?Umm.. that's another story...

I kinda like your idea of matching components Mike. Looks nicer in the rack.

Looking at the back of theParasound C1 Controller, I don't see any hdmi/dvi inputs or outputs of any kind. Unless I'm blind of course. Rat, maybe you can get a Gefen switcher to solve your problems. Just a thought or two.

Regards,
Michael

bug: I'm looking at 5.1 with the notion that, in the future, when/ if we move, I may upgrade to 7.1.

Price range is $3000 - 4000.

I've been looking at the Outlaw 990 and am still undecided about it. Lots of pros and a few cons.

I'll look at some of the other suggestions on this thread.

Yes, I would like the separates to look the same, at least for some period of time.

Anyone hear that Rotel is coming out with new separates?

The AV123 Emotiva and the Gefen mentioned above might be worth a second look. The big Emotiva amp has monoblock design.

You are correct, both the C1 and C2 do not have hdmi/dvi inputs or outputs, there are rumors that Parasound may have one in the making that will use the expansion port, but who knows when that will be.

This one has DVI switching (drool)...

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/990x.html

If I had to make a choice right now, I would probably go with the Outlaw 990 and one of their 200 watt amps. I'm not sure if it would be the 5 channel or the 7 channel.

By the way, I was looking at the Dakmart website and, what do you know, they have "B stock" of the new Denon 4806. That receiver was just released within the last month!!! How could they have it that soon??? I think that there is something a little strange going on?!?!?!?!

Have you read the outlaw thread about software requests for the 990?

Maybe that 4806. It might only be a blemish. I think it's got you name on it.

Yes, Bug, I have read that thread. And, you may be correct about the 4806!! I really would like to go seperates, but it does have the features that I am looking for!!!

Anyone ever call Dakmart and talk to them about what was REALLY wrong with the equipment???

Try sending an email to Denon.

Bug: that's a good idea. I may do that this weekend!

The QS8s and their stands arrived safe and sound this afternoon. I "mostly" assembled everything. I still need to get some more speaker wire, probably another 6-8 ft for each speaker. I need to splice it into the existing wiring. If I can't find my spare wire, I'll go down to the Super Walmart and get some.

For some reason, I thought that the QS8s would be bigger!

You'll be amazed how much sound you get from them on your first DVD.

Our Wal-Mart only has 14 guage. But that should work.

>>For some reason, I thought that the QS8s would be bigger!

Yep... but I didn't think they would be so heavy either...

Yes, I noticed that also! Interesting, to say the least!

Now, to find that speaker wire!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like a good Saturday project. 95 outside today. I'll even do the laundry to stay inside.

No such luck!!

Went and got a cubic yard of top soil. Son and I spent a couple of hours spreading it on the lawn. Ohhhhh, my aching back.

LOL!!!

Found the speaker wire, hooked up the QS8s, now for the calibration.

Then the sub???

Separates aren't all they're cracked up to be. Check out the new Yamaha RX-V4600 first (HDMI switching) for $1,899 USD
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/YamahaRXV4600ReceiverFirstLook.php
or wait for the new Canadian pcX Audio (guys who started Sonic Frontiers a.k.a. Anthem) or Axiom Audio electronics to come out. From Audioholics "The back panel of the EP500 is a fully armed arsenal of connectivity options including line level (unbalanced and balanced) inputs and outputs, speaker level inputs and even a USB port for future upgrade or connectivity options with Axiom electronics (coming soon) or to connect their included mini flashlight which I found useful for poking around in my moderately dark room while making final adjustments."

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AxiomEP500reviewp2.php

Bug: for the new sub, I'm leaning toward one of the SVS "water heaters." I'll probably make up my mind in the next month or two.

I was not aware that Axiom Audio was coming out with a receiver.

I'm going to check out the new Yamaha link that you provided.

I'm in no big rush. I came into the speaker market, once again, when my JPL subwoofer died. It was part of a HT system that I bought about 7 years ago. I have thus far replaced all the speaker except the subwoofer. Go Figure?? I have a borrowed subwoofer from my son.

My old Kenwood receiver still does an excellent job. It drives the M80s very nicely. But, it only has one optical input, no optical outputs, no composite inputs or outputs, and no correction for lip sync. The lip sync issue is the part that got me started looking. I'm planning on getting a new Samsung 61" 1080P HDTV when they come out in the next month or two. Lip sync may be an issue. Its too early to tell, but I wanted to investigate some options.

Thanks for the inputs.

>>I was not aware that Axiom Audio was coming out with a receiver.

Don't know what it is, but it isn't necessarily a receiver. Could be bass management, EQ, a big honkin' power amp, a hyper-intelligent USB flashlight...

Is there a link to something, somewhere, somehow?

Apparently not, Bernard. Ian must have given Gene some advance info which isn't ready for release.

Oh, well!!!

In any case, I'm not currently in a big hurry. The new 61" Samsung won't be out until the end of next month and it could be delayed, once again, from there. If there are no lip sync issues, I may wait, watch, and see what happens in the audio receiver/ separate market.

No indication as to what "electronics" might be. I just assumed it would be a pre/pro if it was integrating with the sub and an amplifier because they brought in amplifier designer Tom Cumberland for the EP subs.

I've got a Paradigm PW-2100 10 in. sub with you're name on it if you need one for a good price. Bought new 2004 with all original packaging for $620 CDN ($500 USD). Moved to a much larger room and wanted to get an Axiom EP500 to fill it, although the Paradigm does one hell of a job.

Great man of wisdom and patience that Rat is!

Rat,

While your waiting, maybe you should consider this little sub. SVS SS

By the way, that's one hellova system you got there bugbitten! Sure hope it's a large room because that baby must put out some serious SPLs.

Audiosouse,

3240 cu ft but open on both ends to other rooms.

The whole family likes this system. Can't wait until my 24 yr old son comes home next weekend. He hasn't heard it yet.

I think that is a little too much subwoofer for me! LOL!!!

I am leaning, very strongly, toward the SVS PCi 16-46. It did well in all of the comparative ratings.

Just my opinion, I have spoken witn Ron at SVS in detail about the driver(s), The PC+ is a "substanial" improvment over the pci (standard) driver. There is not much cost difference. While still costing less than the ultra driver. The ultra is better, but to a "much lesser" degree of impovement. The 20-39 (in the middle of the 25 & 46) would squeeze out a little more spl, and still goes to 16 hz with port blockers. IT GOES REAL LOW. The 20-39 PC+ is still a huge structure, not as big as the 46 of course, but given it's size it will play as low as you would want to go. I just think the 20-39 is a little more diverse, and a little less cost, take those bucks and improve the driver IMO.

From having lived with a 20-39 PC+ for over a year and odd months, I tend to agree with Jon.

The size is a telling factor...at seven inches taller (the 16-46) would make it look even more like a monolith...without adding that much...the 20-39 PC+ is a GREAT performer and will exceed your expectations in every regard...

The 20-39 PC+ sounds like the best "bump for the buck".

WhatFurrer

Another vote for the 20-39PC+... although if I were buying now I would also look real hard at the EP500. In Canada they end up costing about the same once you include shipping... not sure how the numbers work out in the US.

Shippin ran 35 bucks (for the 20-39 PC+) from Ohio to Florida as an example. I would also love to hear the 500 or 600, Are you listening Brother Bob??

Hey fellas, I appreciate your comments. I'm going to take another hard look at the PCi and PC plus series. I couldn't convince myself that the less than 3 dB in power would make any difference, the way I listen.

Could you give us a little more of the amplifier detail that Ron spoke to you about? I would be interested in what the "real" differences are in the two subwoofer amplifiers.

One thing that I have been wondering about in subwoofers is whether the peak power rating is more important than a RMS rating. I know that it depends on the music but I am having a hard time finding any metrics on sound distribution on multichannel systems.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I interpreted the post as Ron saying that the woofer was better on the PC+...

As far as I know the amplifier is similar other than the power rating -- 525 vs. 300 watts RMS.

Could be, but I would be very interested in what Ron told Jon the specific differences were.

Just for the heck of it, I took my tape measure out last night and measured the M80s. Yes, I know I could have read the spec on the product page, but I wanted to see how "large" a few other things were. The PC- 39 inches tall matches the height of the M80s quite well. Another 7" is noticible.

Rat, Ron spoke in great detail mostly about drivers/subs/sizes. When I got the SS package, the Ultra drivers were damaged. This had NOTHING to do with SVS, I got them used, and covered that ordeal, SVS was very supportive in my problem that was not their doing of any sorts. Once I removed one, I could not believe the (physical) difference compared to the PC+ driver. (I stil had the 39 PC+) I mean the weight and mass, and structure are very different. It had me quesioning the PC+ driver. Ron stated the Ultra driver was "better" but very comparable in performance. It was more a design theory, and the PC+ is a "bullit proof wonderful driver" When I initally gave them my room set up, before I even considered the SS package, I was leaning to a single ultra, I wanted the "best" they felt the PC+ was better suited for me performance to dollar. The the PCi sub/driver was no sloch (they are not going to rip on their own stuff) And I think it's a good sub. But the PC+ was a different sub for the most part, (look at the tri porting and larger amp) and the ultra was a "bit of a performance upgrade" had the TC works driver, Unless I really-really drove the PC+ hard they would be similar in performance. I would again take the few extra bucks the 39 saves over the 46, and get the better, but not the best driver. The 39 PC+ better porting design, better driver, bigger amp, not much more) The ultra is incidently a 39 version NOT the 46 if that says anything. You still have a monster sub, a bit more musical and less obtrusive the the 46. When I got the SS package it was due to a move and a new 24x22 room with 18 paek cielings. Even then SVS said the Ultra would not dominate the PC+s, that there would be little differnce. But my decession was also LARGLY based on the maple (which is gorgeous) blend with the room, and WAF acceptence. So by small means was perfromance a factor in the SS over 39s. As far as amps, well 525 is MORE than 325, so that can't be bad either LOL> Best speak to them, They are great to deal with, much like Axiom, they will not upsell you just to have you spend more$$$$ if not needed.

Thanks Jon!!!!

I went to the SVS website and took a harder look at the differences between the PCi and PC Plus. You are so right that there are some major differences other than the power amp. Being able to change that tuned port is an interesting feature, but I don't know that I would do that, at least for a while.

I think that the two of you have convinced me to go with the 20-39 PC Plus. I haven't totally made up my mind, but I sure am leaning that way!!!!

Rat,

That's the same sub I recommended to my son in ABQ.

Bug: I guess that GREAT minds think alike! LOL!!!

I tried expanding the picture of the control panel so that I could see all the connections, but the resolution wasn't very good. Do you need a "Y" connector, double male, to feed two inputs from your subwoofer receiver output? I couldn't really tell.

I checked the 1090 manual. You have a sub preout on back of receiver (lower left center). Your preout from receiver to line in on sub is all you need (RCA to RCA). You should only need a Y if your running dual subs.

Thanks Bug.

I am currently using that subwoofer pre output to "drive" the subwoofer that I borrowed from my son. I thought that maybe there was a right/ left input to the SVS such that I would have to use a "Y" connector.

I think that I will go to the SVS website and see if their manual is posted.

No "Y" needed unless you are running duals as stated before. (1) rca to either left or right input on the sub. Makes no difference in sound, That is expalined in the SVS manual. I'll send you a high quaility pic od the SVS 39 PC+ panel off mine if you want? And next to M-60s (sorry no 80s but - what 2") PM me with an email if you want it. BTW my new Sunfire Grand Thheater III has 4 sub outputs, are they telling me 2 is not enough?? Tempting, my neighbors already hate me!!

Thanks Jon!

It is not an issue any more because I was able to download a copy of the manual and read it.

Mabe they would like you better if you invited them over. They could just show up. The earthquakes would tell them the movies on.

Well, maybe, then again maybe not!!

Some folks are like that.

The people around me aren't really very close. The closest is probably 75 ft. I could see in an apartment complex or closely space residential area where loud music could be a problem.

Anyone heard about any other new pre/ processors or receivers coming on the market that have HDMI switching and internet software upgrades??

Here ya go, Rat:

http://www.audiophilesystems.com/#avp700

I'm drooling over this setup.

Thanks!

Who sells those in the states??

Rat - If you need help grabbing the AVP-700, drop me a PM ... I just got the AVR-300 receiver, and have a pretty good line on getting their gear.

Do you think you could get me one for about $500. $2199 is juuuuuuuuuuuuust a bit outa my budget.

Don't Rockets have a pretty good resale value?

Here's that link

Yeah but If I sold the Rockets, I wouldn't need the Arcams.

Rat,

That site is the US distributor for Arcam. If you poke around you'll find a dealer locator link.

Any more links to reviews or pictures of the gear?

It would be nice to have another review or two and a picture of the connector layout on the back. From what I have seen, the pre/ processor and its companion amp look pretty nice.

I'm going to study the specs a little more.

Look around the site an also Google and you nshould be able to find a little more info. Not much is out there since both pieces are brand new and haven't been available for sale yet. There is a lot of speculation as to the exact date of availability, most likely within the next two weeks.

Did a couple of web searches, but not much is there!

I have been looking at a lot of receiver, pre processor and amplifier specifications trying to assess what the fundamental differences may be as a function of price.

The receiver versus the amplifier (as part of seperates) is rather straight forward. I think that we have researched some "ground truth" on how receiver amplifiers are rated (good old FTC spec and 1/8 power supplies). For the seperate amplifiers, I think that all channels rated/ tested simultaneoulsy in RMS power is the key factor. The comparison between the receiver and separate amplifier is an apples to peaches comparison, I realize, but I understand the differences.

But, what do you look for in comparison for the pre processor? Most of the receivers seem to have all the features of the pre processors, maybe more features when you consider XM radio, HDMI switching, software upgradability, and IEEE ports.

I was looking at the new Yahama RX-V4600 receiver. It seems to have more features than any pre processor in the $1000 - $2500 range. It appears that you could buy the Yahama and buy a 5 channel, 200 watt separate amp and have a "killer" system for about the same price as the new Denon 4806 or less than some of the name brand separates.

What am I missing here??????

In my view you're not missing anything, Bernard; the engineering facilities of large manufacturers such as Yamaha and the huge quantities that they sell receivers in allow them to be more cost-effective when used as both processors and amplifiers than separate components of similar performance. In some cases this may be true even if a separate amp is added and the receiver is used as a processor, "throwing away" some or all of its amp channels.

What am I missing here??????

IMO, you pretty much got it! you are "missing" the 2 channel PURE music sound of a real pre/pro, this may sound overly critical here, but the sound that a high end (gosh I hate that word/phrase) pre/pro provides on serious 2 channel lisening IS very noticeable. I have considered the Magnepan 3.6s for some time, and did finally purchase them. Still playing the positioning game with them. It's not perfect, what is?, but something else! On HT the difference is not near as impressive. However I have not "matched" the maggies, and have been told the QS-8s would still be a great surround choice. I still have my Yam 1500 receiver, I slip it in there for my own curiosity it has more "features" but can't hold a candle to true 2 channel sound of the Sunfires. Most high featured receivers/processors would have more sound fields and features than expensive pre/pros. They were always called pre amps till HT! Anyhow, there are preamps that sell for 10K that would have no real "features" but would put you in heaven with the right amp and speakers, so, again, to each their own I guess. Do you want the BEST 2 channel sound? The best HT? or both, It's only money. There are some great pre/pros that excell at both, but are not the "best" at both, but then again you are back to bucks.

I totally agree with you, separates make a big difference for a 2 channel stereo, while not so much for Home Theater. Anyway, I am probably not in a position to really give a decent opinion, since I have a great stereo system but a bad HT (HTIB, and yes... shame on me). So, please consider only the first part of my above statement ;-)

Jon: I'm strickly focused on HT.

Next "big" item that I purchase will probably be a 61" Samsung HD TV.

I think you're right on track. We all know how much effort you've been putting into it.

I find it interesting that no one, thus far, has come up with any features that a separate pre processor should have that a "standard" receiver doesn't have!

Anyone have further comments?

Bug: I am beginning to think that you had the right idea all along with getting a receiver that had all the processing and switching features that you wanted and then added power blocks for the fronts and center. When you think about it, almost all (or maybe all) modern receivers have pre outputs. Why? Did the "industry" plan for cheap receivers with an easy way to upgrade? Maybe I'm reading/ thinking too much about it?? But, it is something to consider.