Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater TV for my Axioms

Hello all. Now that I have my stereo in place (Denon 3802, m22, vp150, qs8) it's time to turn my focus towards buying a new television. Looking for a widescreen at least 50 inches. For something that big I guess it would have to be a floorstanding unit. What are some of the features I should be looking for? BTW-Wowed the crowd at my house this weekend with a viewing of the new harry potter movie. My buddy mike said the surrounds made him feel like he was in the theatre.
Regards,

bj

Got a price range?

I'd look at all the TV's in whatever price range you can afford with the following:

HDTV compatible (lacks the built in tuner. The standard is still in flux and you might not have much available depending on your area)
Component video in.
Enough S-Video and Composite video inputs for all your other input devices such as video game consoles and the like.

And that's about it. Once I've identified all of those, I'd look at the picture for myself and do a bit of research on AVS.

I know this is a big jump of thoughts, but I would suggest you seriously consider a front projector as well, provided that you can control ambient light at least part-time (for example, in the nighttime). Just like you, I was only thinking about RPTV or plasma, until one day I saw a front projector in action at one of my local AV stores. And that entirely changed my purchase decisions.

As long as you can control ambient light, a front projector can produce much bigger picture, with at least comparable image qualities. I can tell you that the large image size really brings about a serious WOW factor. Plus, the image is inherently more "film-like" (after all, what you watch in the movie theater is a front-projected image). Combine this with a surround sound system, and it will give you a truly "in-theater" experience. My wife, who was initially weary of the thought of an FP, now loves ours; she says the whole experience at home is better than those in the local movie theater.

Most importantly, excellent HT projectors are available from as low as US$1500. And they will readily throw an awesome image of up to 100"-120" diagonal. Of course, all of today's HT projectors are HDTV compatible, and many native 16:9 models available. You can always keep your existing TV for daytime or casual watching of TV shows, like I did.

I suggest you visit your local AV dealers and see if they have a good demo setup of a front projector (the demo room should have a complete ambient light control). Also, surf the AVSforum as suggested by Semi.

Happy shopping!

If you expect to use a front projector for your regular television watching, you should also factor in the price of bulb replacements into ownership. That said, if I could control light enough to own one, I would.

Yes, the bulb will cost you about $400 for every 1500-3000 hours of viewing, depending on models. If you use the projector for 2 hours/day on average, that is going to be a few years. So if you plan to keep the projector longer, it will be a factor. Plus, if you are unlucky enough, your bulb might go out sooner than its "rated" life (but longer than covered by the warranty).

Two hours a night? I think my TV is on closer to five which is closer to yearly for me.

Tought I was giving a pretty generous example... LOL

2 hours is generous? You should talk to the other "sack" of my family. I'm lucky if it is less than 4.

Saturn

Your wife has sack?

I started off watching a lot of TV on my projector, but lately I've found myself using the old 27" tube. The projector is less convenient, and there's something vaguely unsettling about hour after hour of larger-than-life war. And if you think the embedded correspondents look bad on their videophones on your television, you should see them blown up to 100+ inches. Pixels as big as your hand!

Still, I totally recommend a front projector. The picture is fantastic and it takes up zero floorspace. I'm very thankful that I didn't buy a rear projection TV.

My hallway bulbs go out about once every month or two. Darn electrical.

I really like the Mitsubishi Lines. I have a 48311 which is perfect in my room and love this set.

Matt

Check for the new 93 series Toshiba models. Compare them with the 82 series and decide if you want to wait for the new models. The 82 series is very inexpensive these days. They come in 50, 57 and 65 inches. Chess and I have the 50. I wouldn't trade mine for anything except a 57". What about you Chess? This inexpensive price is compared to when they first came out last year. You didn't mention a price range for your new tv. You might want to check out Pioneer as well. Don't forget to get the best DVD player you can afford. Anyone else want to chime in?

A projector would be tough in my room as it is not a dedicated home theatre space. The room is app.25x15 with a 15' cathedral ceiling and a big bay window. I saw on Audioreview that the pioneer brand seems to get great reviews. My price range is about $2000 us. I have digital cable. Should that fact alter my needs needs with regard to hdtv and dpi? Time to start researching again. I swear, the chase is almost as much fun as the catch.
Thanks,

bj

In reply to:

---

A projector would be tough in my room as it is not a dedicated home theatre space.

---

I had always thought that way, too. I have my projector in the multi-purpose living room; the wall facing the backyard is full of big windows, not even window-treated at this time. LOL We still immensely enjoy the projector in the night.

Sorry being persistent, but could not help saying this...

You might find a Pioneer SD533HD5 for near two grand. The H82 model Toshibas 50 and 57 are 1900 and 2200 respectively. Those are BestBuy prices. You can find them cheaper online. I have digital cable from TimeWarner with some HD channels. I am more than pleased with our setup. Have fun deciding.

On your Digi cable just make sure you are using either the S-Video or the Componet connections.

Hi, Sushi--

Your reply to bjkramer got me thinking. Before I go out and drop 4 grand on a Mitsubishi rear projection monitor, I'm going to look into front projectors (I see on Crutchfield.com that Infocus has some amazing values). Just one stupid question: can one watch television programming on a front projector, or just DVDs and videos?

Thanks a lot--

theaterdoc

Before you pick a model check out some of the reviews out there.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-reviews.cfm

I'm making my mind up for the Pany L300 or Sanyo PLV-Z1 which are the lower priced widescreen format. Sushi knows more of the higher end products.

Saturn

Hi, Saturn--

Thanks again--I'll have to check these out. After doing the little bit of research I've done, I can't understand why anyone would opt for RPTV over a front projector for a home theater (room conditions permitting).

theaterdoc

That is exactly the reason Doc.
Room conditions.
My basement presently measures about 15 x 16 with an alcove and a drop ceiling at 7 feet with my couch at 8 feet from the tv.
Not exactly ideal for an overhead projector.
Cost is also usually a concern. A smaller, quality RPTV can be bought for under 2k. Even the prices of plasma and LCD are starting to fall now though with OLED on the way (organic LED).
Personally, in about 5 or 6 years, the RPTV will become a rec room tv for us while the home theatre room will most likely be outfitted with a flat screen 60-80 inch new tech projection.

Until then we just are not all blessed with large homes.

In reply to:

---

Just one stupid question: can one watch television programming on a front projector, or just DVDs and videos?

---

Yes, of course. Most HT projectors have a full assortment of input formats, including composite, S-video, component, VGA and often DVI. Just that the large size of front-projected images will make it less "forgiving" for the quality of source materials -- you will inevitably find that the picture quality of the standard TV (SDTV) is, at best, mediocre.

At any rate, if you wish to do some research on a front projector, besides projectorcentral.com, avsforum.com is a "must" place to visit. In fact, when I went to Tokyo for a business trip a month ago, I took a serious look at a whole bunch of projectors (from budget to high-end models; I picked up a mid-priced unit there) in the Akihabara electronics district. I posted in the AVSforum fairly detailed reports of what I saw. Whenever you have time, visit this thread at avsforum.com. I hope the thread gives you a good introduction...

Ditto on the room conditions. I WISH I had a basement though. Those aren't an option around here much.

As Chess mentioned size is definitely an important factor in getting a front projector. I am a condo dweller as some people are in here. The room I have is only 16L x 12W x 17H. An RPTV would take up too much room. So if I even think of getting a projector I need to find one with a very short throw lens. One that you can throw a 70"-100" nice picture within 9-14 feet or you will get pixelation since your sitting area is close to the image. There are only a few projectors under $2000 that give you short throw lens, great contrast ratio, and vivid colors. As much as a plasma would suit my environment the pricing leaves me left to be desired. Maybe a couple of years that will change. Also I have heard some plasmas leave burn-in of some images if an image lingers on the same spot for quite some time.

9-14 feet is plenty of room. I'm projecting a 106" diagonal from a little less than 14' with a Sony HS10, and the Panasonic PT-L300u has an even shorter throw distance.

The Sony HS10, Pany L300 and Sanyo PLV-Z1 are one of the few 16:9 native format under $2000+ that can do it well.

Hi,

Saturn is correct: plasma screens are subject to burn-in. DLP (Digital Light Processing) projectors, front or rear, are not.

Keep in mind that as appealing as an inexpensive DLP front projector is, if you want true HD resolution, you have to go way up in price. The inexpensive DLP projectors are HDTV-compatible, but they scale the image to their given resolution, which can still look very good, although it is not true HDTV. The argument for a rear-projection HDTV 16:9 CRT unit at 43 to 47 inches carries weight here, because those projectors will do true 1080i HDTV resolution, whereas similarly priced DLP projectors will not.

Regards,

Saturn,
Burn in (or perhaps a better term for some projectors is 'burn out') happens for any projector, but to different extents. Such is the power of light energy. Try staring at the sun for ten seconds and you will get the idea.
Don't stare for any longer though or the 'burn in test' idea will become permanent.

How often do you leave your tv on the same pattern for that many hours a day though?
Fall asleep much at 2am in front of the tv set once the test patterns come on?

Neither DLP nor LCD projectors suffer from burn-in. Some CRTs and plasmas are surprisingly easy to burn in... from static TV station logos, black letterbox bars, XBox games, etc. It's pretty easy to have a static image on part of the screen for extended periods.

JasonG
I think you missed the first part of my post where i iterated to some projectors having burn 'out' as opposed to burn 'in'.
It is true that LCDs do not burn in however, LCD more describes the screen than the projector. The light source can dim over time and LCDs do sometimes carry 'memory' images.

In my humble opinion, anyone who has a plasma tv for playing xbox on that much should easily have enough cash to replace it over time anyway. There are grey patterns that you can use on the screens to remove the images though as i understand it.

In reply to:

---

LCD more describes the screen than the projector

---

Not in the case of an LCD front projector.

In reply to:

---

The light source can dim over time

---

Yes, the bulb starts dimming the moment you turn it on, and bulb replacement cost must be a factor in a projector purchasing decision.

In reply to:

---

anyone who has a plasma tv for playing xbox on that much should easily have enough cash to replace it over time anyway

---

That's what I thought too, but the more I read the more I see people being surprised at how easy it was to burn in their expensive sets.

Hey chess;

I agree with you in the fact that most of the time most people wont keep it on the same pattern. And I thought that was the case. Only last week I walked into a store caught a glimps of the war on this kinda low end JVC plasma ($6300 cdn). When it went into commercial I saw a ever so faint black outline of what looks like the CNN logo in the corner. I looked over my shoulder as the owner was shaking his head saying "I wished I wasnt watching the war on this set ... for the last 3-4 weeks. I never changed the channel and left it there day in and day out from 8am to 10pm" He said the set wasnt a new one but he never had that problem before.

I was also out this weekend Audio browsing ... can't wait for the new monitors PMC TB2 to show up next week ... As I was looking at TV set (since the last time about 2 months ago) I was able to find a nice comparison between a Sony GW2 50" LCD rear projection set, a 40" Sims DLP rear projection set, Samsing 50" DLP rear projection. Panasonic 36" HDTV sets, Toshiba RPTV 60", Pany 42" DUY Plasma. Too bad there was no rear projector in the same store to compare. The best picture & color was between the plasma and the HDTV tube set. Next was Sony GW2 LCD rear projection. Next was the Toshiba RPTV. Samsung DLP 50" and the Sims DLP rear projection came in the last. I do not know if anyone in the store tweaked out any of the sets. I was kind off dissappointed with the DLP rear projection. I have read that the contrast ratio was supposedly excellent but I found the sets lacking in brightness.

Certainly specific tv/monitor daily usage has a huge effect on how images may burn in, but for most folks, it is rare that you never change a channel. It is equally rare that you let your kids (or perhaps even yourself) play an xbox game for tens of hours without ever turning off the set or doing at least one different thing with the tv between gaming breaks.

As with any expensive electronic component (lets say more than $300 just to toss out a number), the home owner should know how to properly care for their unit to give it the best longevity possible. If for some odd reason a home owner required to watch CNN each day for tens of hours, and only CNN, then i would say they are the odd few that should look into the serious issue of burn in before they commit to a certain technology for their home projector. You see these changes in monitor types in newer airports across the country.
I really don't think that a standard use of a plasma tv will burn in an image with watching CNN for ten hours straight. Perhaps a couple weeks of 24 hours a day will produce some results, but again, if plasma tv were really easy to burn an image after a mere couple of hours use, no one would buy them and you would have heard alot more about plasma tvs being returned by now.

Chess:

I think this was a one off bad low end model. I am still tosing around the idea between the plasma and projector since both are small format and would suit my lifestyle. I think that JVC was not that good quality. On the other end of the spectrum I have been to shops where they have had there Pany DUY model for the last ... close to 2 years with it on everyday and it looks still fantastic short of a slight dimming and I checked with the guy and said they turned it off only at night and it has been running flawlessly for almost 2 years. When it comes to plasmas the Panny, Pioneers and NEC are outstanding.

In reply to:

---

My basement presently measures about 15 x 16 with an alcove and a drop ceiling at 7 feet with my couch at 8 feet from the tv.
Not exactly ideal for an overhead projector.
Cost is also usually a concern. A smaller, quality RPTV can be bought for under 2k.

---

chess,

I do not quite see one aspect of your basement that is unsuitable for having the front projection enjoyment. Many of the current HT projectors can throw >100"-diagonal image from less than 11'-12' distance. Also, you actually gain 2'-3' of room depth if you do not place a big-screen RPTV.

As for prices, you can get some excellent HT projectors (both LCD and DLP models) for under $2000, including the Sanyo Z1, Pana L300u, Sharp Z90, InFocus X1 and Sony HS10 (the latter would be a bit over $2K). I have see all of them in action, and they all will throw a quite stunning image.

Sushi, perhaps i should also mention, i have no where to put the image screen.
My 50" rptv pretty much fills all the room i have right now. The drop ceiling is JUST at the limit of the image below (just above the vp150).
Why buy a front projector to make a 50" image?
And i would still have a problem placing the projector anywhere. Take a look at my basement from the rear again and try to figure out how i could ever integrate a projector into that space.
basement now with rptv, cannot see coffee table in front of couch

view from couch to front panorama, note old config before rptv and that distance to tv is ONLY 8 feet

I have no room on top of our seating area (overhead piping runs down the room splitting the drop ceiling in two). I have no room on the floor (coffee table in front of couch and add in large dog).

Maybe i will take some more quick shots of the basement room if you need to see what i mean.

Do you have digital cable Chess?

I see... You can still have a pulldown screen just in front of the RPTV (or an on-wall screen in place of RPTV!), but since you can't sit further back, I agree that there is a limited value for a larger image (most people want to watch at the distance of 1.3x screen width or more). Can't you ceiling-mount a projector somehow? -- just hypothetically...