Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
A variation on a theme
#28114 12/19/03 02:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2
N
newbie
OP Offline
newbie
N
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2
First time on the board. Let me start out by noting that the advice that the members here give out has helped me frame the questions that I am about to pose...though that may not be evident by the end of this rambling post.

I realize that much of what I'm about to ask has likely been covered in previous posts, in one form or another, but I hope someone can take a moment to write a few lines in reply. Thanks.

1) I am in the situation common to many of the first-timers in this forum - I will be purchasing my first serious HT system within the next 2-3 months. My theoretical budget is divided as follows: Epic 80 package, one of the Denon, Yamaha, H-K $1000 AVRs, some sort of $400-750 DVD/CD product, all the wiring etc. that goes along with it. I already have a 36" Sony TV (mid-range FX, about 1.5 yrs. old...does the job but can't help dreaming about the possibilities of an upgrade) and I need to incorporate my PS2 into the mix.

2) Assuming I don't upgrade the TV - the discussions about DLP and LCoS have been very illuminating, thanks, sounds like it's best to stay strong and wait for PQ and $$$ work their way up and down, respectively - this is still going to be a huge amount of cash for me which will effecitvely represent my one spin of the wheel, as it were. There is no way I can justify improving (read: replacing) such a system for a (very) long time...perhaps 7+ years.

3) The first question is basic. Will the world pass me by in 7 years? On the TV and DVD front, probably in one-third of that time. Even I can guess that. However, will the Axioms remain "great" 7 years down the line (on the assumption that they are "incredible" at present)? [Note that I make no claims to be any sort of audiophile. I enjoy music very much, but I just don't know that I can discern the higher levels of quality that many of the members here describe. I am going to buy the Axioms because of what I've read here and in other forums] Can I plan to have the Axioms for the next 7-10 years without any need (real rather than perceived) to get something "better". It would help me write the check for the Axioms if I knew that they would serve my very average ear for a number of years down the road.

4) What about the Denon/Yamaha/H-K? How soon will an AVR become so past-its-prime (again, for the average person like me who wants a quality HT experience rather than someone who demands some level of the cutting edge at all times) that I'll have to wander out and put down another $1000 to get back in the game with a new product?

5) With respect to the DVD/CD combo - Pay $400 for something good now and $400 for something good in 2-3 years or rather pay $800 now for something that's somewhat above good (for the current time) and hold it for 4-5 years?

6) Am I totally out of touch and the answer to my question was succinctly stated in a previous post...something to the effect of "it's like computers, what you buy today for $X with Y quality is great until 1 year later when you can spend $.5X and get 2Y quality?

I'll cut this short. Or I guess I'll cut this less long.

Advice, suggestions, requests to keep to 100 words or under in the future, all appreciated.

Re: A variation on a theme
#28115 12/19/03 03:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
neophyte,

Welcome to the forums. I'm glad you find this place as informational as all the regulars do. I am going to attack the paragraph labeled 3, first.

The wonderful thing about speakers is that good design is timeless. Given proper (minimal) care, any speaker will give you the same sound on day 8,762 as on day 1. Axiom speakers are designed to be accurate and uncolored. 7 years from now, there may be new technology that can achieve higher levels of accuracy, but your Axiom speakers will still be able to admirably handle and clearly convey any music you throw at them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the speakers should be the least of your concerns when thinking about HT gear becoming obsolete.

Re: A variation on a theme
#28116 12/19/03 07:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
As usual, peter not only beat me to the punch, but gave good advice to boot.

All I'll add to what he already said is that I wouldn't spend $800 on a better than average player right now. (I know if you read my posts I was looking into a new player, but I was looking for audio only.) HD-DVD is coming soon, and that's going to change things. Right now, I'd get either the Denon 2200 or Pioneer 563A. Both players will play back pretty much anything you put in them. I believe the Denon is known to have a better PQ, but it's also a bit pricier. Either of those players will should get you through the next few years worth of technology upgrades fairly well.

As you pointed out in your post, TV technology is changing VERY quickly. I wouldn't buy a new TV for at least another 2 years. (Unless you buy something inexpensive now, and intend to upgrade it again.)

Lastly, recievers. Beyond 7.1, I don't know what more they could add. (yeah, 9.1, but do you really need or want 9 speakers in your living room?) After "upgrading" from 5.1 to 7.1, I'm even questioning the need for even 7.1. If I were you, I'd get a decent 7.1 receiver and not worry too much. Yeah, the technology will change, but Dolby Digital and DTS sound REALLY good on a good system. You won't NEED to upgrade for a long time.

Good luck!

Re: A variation on a theme
#28117 12/19/03 04:59 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
neophyte,
Although i agree in part with some of what Peter and Spiff have alluded to, you should understand one strong certainty.
Although it appears that technology in tvs and dvds is changing 'fast', it really doesn't mattter.
At the present time, only 30% of Canadians own a dvd player (even though they have been out on the market for years now) and over 90% still own a regular CRT tv set under 27" in size (sorry i cannot remember the source of where i read this a couple of weeks ago, i just remember the numbers).
Widescreen, flatscreen, HD-DVD, digital TV are all new technologies that SEEM to be selling like hotcakes, but in reality by the time your average Joe actually buys into these en masse such that you could say these new technologies have become a 'must have' mainstream item, it will still be many years from now.
You have no worries for nearly a decade that anything you buy today will be "out of date". Think about how long the LP tradition lasted, or the cassette tape age, then the cd age, now slowly moving into the dvd age. Each new technology lasted near a decade (or more) before a new format came to 'replace' it and yet many still utilize the old technology regardless.
The majority of the country does not have the cash like some others to always have cutting edge technology and hence the masses have to make due for a long time. Companies know this and will usually accomodate the slow change.
Remember the old 13 channel on the dial CRT tvs that needed an external tuner box to get channels beyond 13?
Does anyone use them anymore or do most people finally now own tvs that have the capability internally?
Well think about this as a parallel then, how about the new digital TV tuners now which also sit outside the new fangled widescreen RPTV 50" unit.
How many ppl own a built in digital tuner in their tvs and how long do you think it will take before ppl own new tvs with that capability such that the external box is again no longer required?
It will be quite some time.

Second quick point to keep in mind, formats are always changing. Don't buy something based on what MIGHT become the future wave of excitement. The whole VCR beta vs. VHS thing should have taught alot of ppl that waiting several years before buying into a format is often worthwhile. This more applies to just the media players though. DVDs are going through this painful struggle right now and although we own a dvd player capable of dvd-audio, i have yet to buy a single dvd-a disk!

As for speakers, we just bought a pair a couple of months ago that we plan on keeping for the next 20 years or more. Speaker physical designs can change certainly, but sound quality usually does not. Any quality speaker you buy today will not be surpassed in sound quality by another method of producing sound for quite some time if ever. It is still all highly subjective anyway. There are many who say that the sound from some early 1970 xx brand speaker is the purest sound ever made (i have a stereophile friend who wheels and deals with the stuff all the time). Technology changes does not always mean it is better especially in regards to audio.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: A variation on a theme
#28118 12/19/03 06:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 257
local
Offline
local
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 257
All good points. The thing to remember that all technology is driven by the consumer. The greater the demand for something, the quicker it will become widely available. Maturation of the technology will then lower the cost to what most of us can afford as competition and internal components become widely available.

I don't believe in my heart of hearts that most of america's buying power could tell you the difference between very good DVD signal and HDTV in a typical living environment. And that's assuming that they even knew enough or cared enough to buy "very good" standard DVD in the first place.

This is only my OPINION, but based on it, I would say it will be a long while before HD-DVD is in everyones living room (and in turn affordable).

As far as televisions go..you know when everyone will have a flat, HDTV compatible one? When they're no different in price than what people would expect to pay for a "regular" TV. I think LCD is pushing that envelope which makes sense because it's part of the maturation process.

From what I've read about speakers, what these guys say is absolutely true. The least of your worries.

Electronics from my few months exposure seem to be a lot like computers. If you keep waiting, there will always be something better "right" around the corner.

-Nick


My M60's make me listen
My M80's make my ears hear
Either way - I'm not deaf anymore
Re: A variation on a theme
#28119 12/19/03 06:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
I agree with Chess to some degree, but I think it's not a good idea to compare cassettes, etc, with what's happening today. The computer chip has changed everything. Technologies change MUCH faster today than they did just ten years ago. I don't think you'll find things sticking around as long as you used to. The rapid rate of change in computer chip technology, and capitolism will continue to push newer and better things out at a very fast rate. I think the days of a technology like LP's being around for decades is long gone.

Re: A variation on a theme
#28120 12/19/03 06:25 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
That is true Nick.
However, one addition:
In reply to:

As far as televisions go..you know when everyone will have a flat, HDTV compatible one? When they're no different in price than what people would expect to pay for a "regular" TV.



When they are no different in price, yes, AND when their "old" tv is no longer of use (e.g broken). Many people will not buy a new tv (or anything) if one they already have works perfectly fine. Most people cannot afford such whimsical buying ideals. So yes, prices must come down AND old equipment must become old before the masses really buy into the new items. It is a much longer process than most realize.

Until two years ago we still had a 23 yr old 13" tv in our bedroom. If my wife had not bought me a RPTV as a gift, it would STILL be in our bedroom. Instead we have now moved the old basement tv (20"- 10yr old Zenith) up the bedroom. Although we've been considering buying a flat panel for the bedroom for ease of location, we haven't been able to just get rid of the 20" because it works perfectly fine.
Again, until the old REALLY becomes old, the majority of ppl will not buy new.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: A variation on a theme
#28121 12/19/03 06:35 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
In reply to:

Technologies change MUCH faster today than they did just ten years ago



I know for a fact that my grandmother would disagree with you.
It is a matter of perception.
What to me as a kid felt like a slow progression of technology has now today impressed upon my adult perception just how fast any technology is improved. I think alot of things have come along fast regardless of the 'age' we live in.
What working machine factories did to improve mass production of toys in the early 1900s, we now say computers are the 'machines' that have improved xx efficiency in our era.

In reply to:

I don't think you'll find things sticking around as long as you used to.



And where exactly did the LPs go?
There are tons of people still using them, listening to them, selling and buying them. Companies in Germany still make $20,000 record players.
I don't think that cds will be any different 20 years from now. I certainly do not plan on changing over my cd collection to some new technology in 20 years just because it exists.
That's a wasteful attitude of this North American 'consumerism/capitalism' style of living.
We will choke on that waste and to some extent, in many ways, we already have.

Does it show that i've been inundated with contaminant research lately?


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: A variation on a theme
#28122 12/19/03 06:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,236
I'm not saying the older technologies will simply go away. Yeah, some people still play records. (Good luck finding a new release on LP though). New technologies will just show up faster. Look at the DVD. Many people thought it was going to flop. (Not me, but most everyone I knew did.) It's probably the fastest growing new technology ever.

I think HD-TV/HD-DVD may be the next big thing. ONLY if they can get true HD (1920x1080) out there at an affordable price. The great thing about DVD's was they 1) they weren't too pricey, and 2) they were a HUGE improvement over VHS.

True HD is a HUGE improvement over DVD and NTSC. I don't think it's "breakthrough" is much farther away.

Re: A variation on a theme
#28123 12/19/03 06:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
WM9 is true 1920x1080 and it is available today.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 386 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4