Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions AV receivers driving 4 ohm speakers - Manepan webs

I found this on the FAQ section of the Magnepan website. What do you electronics experts have to say? I know that Masa(Sushi) drives his 4 ohm Hales with an Elite vsx 45 with no problem. FYI on the Pioneer site I couldn't find a 4 ohm rating for the Eliltes, just that they recommend 8-16 ohm speakers and make accomodations for 6 ohm impedance. Is it just that Magnepan's are greedier than Hales or is this a blanket admonition?

dh,

In fact, Maggies are less greedy than 4-ohm dynamic speakers, because a Maggie presents an almost purely resistive load (read, most benign load from the amp's perspective). True, Maggies are very inefficient speakers: you need a lot of power to drive them properly. But as long as the amp can tolerate a "benign" 4-ohm load, you should be fine.

Get a used Bryston 4B on Audiogon. It will drive 500+w @ 4ohms. Thats what I have. It has a 20 year warrantee so even if is somewhat defective...sent it into Bryston and they will replace all the parts as long as its within the 20 year warrantee. I have Bryston's coming out of my Rotel Surround receiver pre-outs. Thats how I plan to run my possibly future Maggies MG12. As with Maggies the more you feed power the more headroom and more resolution at louder levels. I know someone with 125w@8/300@4 ohm amp that clip at loud and strong passages on the Maggies say anything past 80db. Mind you the Maggies usually trip at 90-95db.
But Masa doesnt drive his Hales with the Elite. He uses his Adcom amp.

Here Sushi;

Your same model Adcom was clipping with the Maggies.
http://www.soundstage.com/entry04.htm
A Bryston 3B was clipping also. Another person with the same 4B as I do had much success though.
I'm considering the MMG in a couple of weeks...fiancee willing. I'd like to compare my finding with this vs my old M22 and current PMC DB1. The price sounds very appealing.

Thanks for the interesting link, Saturn. Although I don't have time to read the article right now, I am already pretty much convinced that if I ever decide to go for the Maggie 3.6Rs, I will have to replace my power amp as well.

But isnt the 3.6 going to block your hallway?
Thats somewhat the issue I have currently and in the new place. Where can I place this BIG hunk of membranes and making it disappear. I had one idea... have those long sheets of paper with that Japanese/Chinese writing and kinda make a Feng Shui looking room. Roll up those sheets of long paper when listening...drop em down over the Maggies when not listening.

Masa,

If you get the 3.6Rs, will you be driving them to such high levels and/or is your room so big that you will need more than 200 W/ch?

Went out today and listened to these:
Magnepan MG12 http://www.magnepan.com/1-800-474-1646/mg12.html
Vandersteen 2Ce signature http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/The%20Model%202Ce%20Signature.html
Triangle Zerius http://www.triangle-fr.com/gammes-2003/zerius-202-gb.htm

Brief synopsys:

MG12 - WOW!!!! is this how music sounds when you get rid of the standard box which can color the sound. Perfect smooth blend of all frequencies. SwweeTTT vocals. The fiancees "Madonna Ray of Light" album actually sounds very very good. Pavlo acoustic guitars are lifelike. Details galour. Schostakowitch was one of the best sounding I have heard in long time. Tight bass but lacking on the really very very low frequencies ie. pipe organ music, church music needs a sub to compensate. Wide soundstage but not kinda focused. The guy just plopped them into a spot after moving some Martin Logans. Maybe not tweaked properly into position so it was hard for me to tell or pin point the location of jazz player. I would say it was kinda like there a little to the left rather than 3 feet behind 11 oclock position based on some speakers that I have listenend to. Standing up from sitting position lost the sweet spot. I think if the speakers were raised 4-8 inches and if straightened perfectly vertical rather than the somewhat leaning posture of the Maggie stands the soundstage might improve and a little more focused. Overall the experience was positive. And can you believe it .. the fiancee said she loves the look of the Maggies???? Most people say..isn't that kinda wide and gawdy? Well a good sign so far. This is the first time I took her into a listening session.

Went to the next shop. Put the same material on the vandersteen. Nice, CRYSTAL clear!!!. Details Details. Smoooth. Nice highs and tight lows. Seemingly more focus and detail. Hmmmmm...soundstage was not that deep. Maybe I was too close. Could not move my chair back since there was sofa full of other guy waiting for me to finish so that they can listen to the 4600+ Spendor speaker. And when they did jump in..I said to myself..the M80 kick the crap out of those speakers. All I heard is the thummmmppphhzzz thummmmmppppzzz. Yeah I guess those guys do like heart thumping bass that overpowers the mids and highs.
Well the Vandersteens also were only max. 1 feet from the wall. I read that there was a passive driver at the back. Unfortunately there was not enough room to pull out that 75lbs 2ce sigs. I really have to come back to redo the listening. I liked the clarity of detail on the Vanderteens. Resolution was saturated with loads of information.

Lastly are the Triangles Zerius. I have not heard much about this French speakers. I put on the same media. Then it hit my face. REALLY NICE!!!!!. What the hell is going on? Very very sweet music. And the soundstage...wide, big...and holy cow is the stage like 10-15 feet back. I have never heard a stage this big. Very nice. Very smooth and sweet. Lots of fine details. Forget Ascends or Paradigm or the other competitors against Axioms (This is just a personal opinion. I could be wrong). If there is a brand that would give Axioms a run for its money. I would say Triangles. Both Axioms and Triangles are one of the few budget line speakers that give you the best bang for the buck without sacrificing quality of sound.

Saturn

Saturn,

Thanks for passing on your thoughts on these speakers. It's nice to hear about what's available outside out little Axiom planet (universe).

Although I've never heard the Magnepan MG12s (I have heard the 1.6s) I thought it was strange when you said the sweet spot was lost when you stood up. When I heard the 1.6s, there didn't seem to be a sweet spot. They sounded great whether I was standing up, sitting down, or walking all around the room. I thought that in itself was a great selling point. Maybe there's a large difference between the two.

Have you had a chance to listen to larget Maggies?

Not to sound like a broken record, but the best "value" in the Magnepan series is the MG1.6 Qr. The MG12 are VERY nice, but the MMG are almost, if not as good as them, for half the price. The MMG are just sold factory direct...keeps the price down as we all know. If you have a chance, and you are seriously considering Magnepans, take a time to listen to the 1.6's...its worth it.