Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Large/small settings L/R speakers... Pioneer Elite

Ok... just got my Axiom Epic 60/500, and finally (after a week) had the time to run some wiring and start hooking up more than just the front L/R. Ran the sub cable through the floor last night, and got to use that for the first time. So at this point, I've only used 2 channels and the sub. (My center channel stand is here today... and I ran wiring for the surrounds as well... so tonight is the big night where I FINALLY get to try out my new toys in 5.1.)

Question: I am running M60s and the EP500. I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV receiver. (And this is probably a receiver specific problem, unfortunately.) When I set the front L/R speakers to small, the sub plays, but bass output from the M60s is reduced (like it is supposed to be, I guess...). When I set the front L/R speakers to large, the sub cuts out entirely, no matter where I set the receiver's crossover. (I have the EP500 crossover off.)

I specifically wanted the M60s (rather than the M22s) because my sub is in the back corner, and (I suspect) will probably be localizable, no matter how well I calibrate, due to a kinda crappy room setup. I had hoped significant bass from the fronts would help counteract this. (I haven't yet done any proper calibration.)

Regardless of whether the sub ultimately is localizable or not, does anyone know if the Pioneer Elite receivers (or all receivers, for that matter) will automatically disengage a sub if the front speakers are set to large? To me, that seems silly. I would think I should be able to still use a sub even if the fronts are full range speakers, whether I'm using them for 2 channel stereo (which is all I was trying last night), TV watching, or 5.1.

I am aware that THX recommends everything be set to small when a sub is used. Nonetheless, I bought full range M60s with the intent on using them as full range to provide bass from the front soundstage. (Obviously if it is counter-productive I wouldn't INSIST on having the mains set to large... but I wanted the option.) Anyway, I'm just a bit frustrated that it seems the receiver won't let me have my cake and eat it too. I want bass from my M60s AND my sub, not one or the other.

Anyone with a Pioneer Elite experienced this issue? Am I just not understanding the receiver correctly? Does it sound like this is an absurd feature that there MUST be a way around?

Any people with other receivers know whether all receivers behave like this?

Anyone generally smart have any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

I can't comment on the Pioneer Elite as I am not familiar with it. The user manual should answer your question however.

My Denon has two modes: LFE and LFE+Main. In LFE mode, the lows are directed to the sub only. In LFE+main, the lows are directed to the sub AND all speakers set to large.

If you can't solve your problem using your receiver controls, you can always connect your speakers through your sub's high level inputs.

Baglorius

I had exactly the same problem your having but my reciever is an Onkyo. My receiver doesn't have the LFE+main selection. I was going nuts trying to solve this. What I learned is that the Identification is different for different receivers. Under the audio section of this receiver there's a selection named double bass. Once I activated that then all of a sudden the bass came alive when using the speakers set to large...not knowing about the pioneer you have but I would assume you might have the a similiar issue locating what to activate to send the signal to the sub. good luck

I don't recommend what you're trying to do, however, if you go into System Setup, Manual SP Setup, and then Speaker Settings, change the subwoofer to Plus. This sends all bass at the frequency cutoff you specify from all channels regardless of whether the speaker is set to large or small.

I have M80's and they are set to small. Frequencies below 80Hz are not directional. So you honestly should not notice more bass sending it to the M60's and the sub at the same time. Depending on speaker placement, you actually could end up making it sound like there's less bass due to frequency cancellations.

You can experiment with this and see what happens and ultimately decide on which you like best. Far as I'm concerned, though, the EP500 should be plenty and will handle the lower frequencies much better than the M60 (or M80 in my case). I have an EP500 as well.

BTW, I have an 84, so I'm assuming that the 72 has similar menu options. If you can find the speaker setting for the Subwoofer that's what you're looking for.

I missed the fact that you have an EP500. What is the volume of your room? You should not have any problem with enough tight bass out of the EP500 unless your room is unusually large. I have the EP600 and it shakes my entire house with tons of headroom left on my receiver's gain controls.

Mark, as Chad(nicholc2)pointed out, the manual setting section of your Pioneer manual mentions a "Plus" setting for the subwoofer which results in main channel bass going to both mains set "large" and the sub. You'll note that they don't emphasize this and the comments on its use don't really urge it. Using your term, yes this is in my view "counter-productive" to some extent. The idea of bass management is to relieve the speakers of the lowest bass and allow a good sub(especially one as good as your EP500)to do what it does best without conflicts with another speaker. Although the combined setting is sometimes said to give a "fuller" sound, that isn't necessarily better.