OK, my infatuation with my dream of becoming a drummer will not go away. You may laugh, but I figured that if I stayed interested long enough in RockBand to actually be able to beat most songs in Expert level then this might be something more than an another passing infatuation. I now beat almost all but a few songs in expert (Damn you Metallica) and I'm able to do all the beat lessons with my eyes closed to moderately fast speeds.

The key to getting to expert level was actually closing my eyes during when practicing the beat lessons. They were easy when you watch the gems fall but the real test of your timing comes when you can't see them coming.

OK enough self justification.

This set has been haunting me for a month now.

Five Piece Pearl Drum Kit (Target Series)
Excellent Condition
Sabian Rock Hi Hats, Sabian Crash, Sabian Splash
$600 which I assume is negotiable.

Full link is here if you care to let me know what you think.

I'd appreciate comments as to weather or not they are worth a minor, one hour drive to view closer. I'll be taking a real drummer for backup.

I had been looking for a deal on V-Drums or another electronic set but they are just out of my budget new and the local market for used equipment is pretty small around here. I'd prefer a 'real' set anyways but was thinking of trying to maintain my wifes sanity.

Thanks guys.

Tought to give an answer on this because there are several understated pieces to the puzzle. Since you are just starting out, you don't want to make a big investment, so of course there are nicer sets out there...

With that said, the Pearl sets are generally pretty good. They have been around for a long time as well.

I would say that it is worth the drive to check them out. The Sabian's are going to sound either harsh, flat, sharp, mellow, blah, blah, blah depending on what YOU like, so they will need to be listened to.

The drums themselves can have their sound altered by tightening and loosening the heads, removing the bottom heads of the toms, or the "outside" head of the bass drum, or even just using different types of drum heads. You can take a mediocre set of drums and make them sound pretty good just by changing a few things, of course the reverse is true. You can take a good drum set, throw on some crappy drum heads, and really mess things up.

So long story short, I think that you will have to go there and check them out in person. That is the only way to know if they sound good or not to you.

To get something new that would have the similar specs (a little nicer though) would run you about $800 if that helps at all.

You will also need to add a 'ride' cymbal and stand.

Good catch. I missed that one. The splash is nice, but most beginners don't need one (or they turn into splash cymbal freaks and play it way too much). Factor in a ride cymbal that "matches" the other cymbals (same series for starters, and then, again depending on the sound you want, go from there).

Also remember if you plan to play any "Nu Metal" to turn your ride upside down and tighten the clamp with pliers. It's the drummer's version of drop-D tuning.

Also, you'll need an Alien Disc for no good reason.

Bren R.

The metal I play is so Nu, I call it Knü Metal.

In addition, you will need one of these to play the double bass fills.
http://www.westcoastdrums.com/taircojrpogl1.html

I think a double bass pedal is a bit much for a newbie, but for that hard core metal, you'll want one. :-)

Thanks all.

The Pearls are probably not going to get looked at because after sending an email request for specific details about their condition, he mentioned a small "currently not effecting sound" crack on the splash symbol. While his statement may be true, at least for now, I asked if he could email me a picture of the crack and intended to run it by an experienced drummer friend. At this point, he is not responding by email. He might just be away from his email for a bit but it makes my spidey senses tingle.

On the plus side, now that my wife has recognized that I am actually very serious about finally making a purchase, she has decided that it might now be better if we up the budget a bit to buy electronic drums to ensure her sanity and/or preserve our marriage. While I'm not a fan of the aesthetics of electronic sets, it is a very good idea for my beginner phase as the noise reduction will result in much more available practice time.

This is still not a big budget increase. $800 target and $1000 max. After weeding out the realllly bottom of the line kits, I am hopeful for this
Yamaha DTXpress IV set

Note: when I called a local music store here to check his used price verses new, the version IVs are 'on sale' cough, for 1899

The only other set within reach is a less featured Yamaha DTXplorer. It is listed for 850 but only has single zone pads and looks even more ugly with it's pie slice cymbals and just another pad for a high hat.

I also found an entry level Roland set but was surprised to find a lot of poor reviews on this model so it didn't make the short list.

Further comments are welcome. I won't be pulling the trigger until I return from Ottawa on Tuesday so lots of time for a sanity check if you feel I need one.

I quite enjoy the "Rock Band" drum kit. I was hammered up on the weekend and my friends disassembled the drum kit and sat it on my lap, so I was drumming away, very reminiscent of Carter Beauford I must say, then the guys called out for our round of car bombs or a Jägerbombs(can't remember ), so I started to turn my wheelchair around not realizing that the drums were still plugged into the Xbox and, well, they went a crashing to the floor.

I like to think of that story as an allegory, in that I didn't miss the calling

Murph,
Have a look on Ebay. There are some great deals out there (electronic & acoustic). I purchased the Roland TD-9KX (TD-9SX in the U.S.) earlier this year before the price increase. Shortly after I added an extra tom and 14" cymbal. Most drummers have G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome). I would strongly suggest that you visit a music store and demo the different models to see what your options are.
Good luck,
Shaun

The DTXpress IV sells at Guitar Center for $999 brand new. Sure, you don't get the bass drum pedal, throne, or sticks, but at least it is new.

If you like the Yamaha stuff, you could look at the DTXplorer.It is $300 less than the DTXpress IV. It has 18 fewer drum kits and a few other differences, but again, you are just getting started. Mario Andretti's first time behind the wheel wasn't in an Indy car. His first "car" was a lid to one of his mom's pots and he went around the house going "vrooom..... vrooom..."

Besides, the Yamaha stuff isn't "Indy" level anyway, but not bad for a newbie. :-P

Considered by most to be the best "electronic" drums would be the Roland line-up. Take another look at the TD-3SW for $995.99 at Guitar Center. The biggest benefit just by looking at it is the mesh snare drum vs. the rubber one on the Yamaha. Beating on rubber pads will make your wrists sore after a while, and since you will be hitting the snare drum the most, this is a really nice step up. When I was looking for drums a couple of years ago (after being drum-less for about 10 years), I said that I would never go back to electronic drums. As a youngster, I had a cheap (really cheap) Pearl set that was beat to heck. My first new set was a Tama Techstar. They were great for a while, but boy did they sound like 80's synth and 80'd synth only. I regretted that purchase for a long time, and eventually just gave them away.

Then I was back in the market and was looking at Gretsch, Pearl, and a few others. I was about to pull the trigger on the Gretsch when I stumbled into my local Guitar Center and just starting looking around for some cymbals that I liked. I was waiting for the sales guy to finish up with someone else, so I sat down at a Roland TD-20S. I was in love, but couldn't pay the $6,000 price tag. So then I started asking all sorts of questions about the entry level Rolands, the Yamahas, and the Pintechs that they had out to play.

After messing around for about 2 hours, I went home and started looking online to see what others thought of the brands and models. After several days of reading and research, it was clear that I needed to stick with Roland, but I had also heard that the rubber pads would drive me nuts after a while. At the time, Roland only had mesh on the snare of a TD-6 series (over my budget), or all mesh on the TD-20 (way too expensive), so I was asking about getting a TD-3 series, but upgrading the snare to mesh (it wasn't a standard feature back then). I found out that Guitar Center would give me full price credit back for the rubber snare and put it towards the mesh snare. So then I started asking about upgrading all of the toms to mesh as well, and before you know it, I had upgraded the sound module from a TD-3 to a TD-6 as well. I managed to get a TD-6SX equivilent (which wasn't out yet) for $1500 compared to the price of the TD-6SX which came out 2 weeks later for $2100. It was over my budget, but I knew it was what I wanted. Roland also had a "rebate" for a free $100 pair of over-the-ear headphones, and a free 3rd cymbal or a PD-8 rubber drum pad. I went with the headphones and the 3rd cymbal, which is great. The bell of that cymbal currently is a wood block, and the edge is a splash, but I can set it to whatever I want.

Now the TD-6SX has a new sound module and is the TD-9SX which sells for $2500. I am super happy with the set and I am very glad that I went with mesh pads, but again, you are just starting out, and you may find that the rubber pads are just fine until a few years from now when, if you stick with it, find that you are ready for the next level. Then you can just upgrade the toms, or get an even better mesh snare, or whatever.

What you need to factor in, since I am not trying to get you to burst your budget like I did, is start with the "fixed" numbers. Start with the total to spend, subtract a throne, subtract a bass drum pedal, subtract a set of sticks, subtract either headphones or an amp (do NOT hook them up to your Axioms!!!) and see what you have left, then start looking online for deals and while you are doing that, check out a music store in your area that has a few to sit down and try. Just go there, put on some headphones and plunk away. Nobody cares if you are good or not. Pay attention not only to the "fun" sounds of electronic drums, but ones that seem to sound realistic. Look for sound control options on the drum modules so that you can tweak the existing samples to your liking. Look at the responsiveness of the drums themselves. Can you play them really, really softly? How much rebound do you get from holding the drum stick between your thumb and index finger and letting the stick's tip pivot and freely bounce on the drum heads. Too little and you will struggle to get any speed built up, too much, and it is like playing with those rubber "super balls" and you will be fighting to keep things under control.

Alright, well that is WAY more than you asked for, but I hope somewhere in all of that is some useful information.

One thing to keep in mind is the sound of the rubber pads. The drums and cymbals are not perfectly quiet. There is the tapping sound on the rubber.
I had forgotten how loud an acoustic set was until I was sitting behind my friend's full blown kit (8 toms). Between the cymbals and drums my ears were ringing! Sound proof rooms are definitely a good option.
Another option with Roland electronic drums is the expansion packs you can purchase from V Expressions Ltd (vexpressionsltd.com). These are custom kits that bring an improved sound to Roland drums. For a $30 investment they are worthwhile.

Thanks for all the info folks. Nick, a really big thank you for that big and informative post.

The biggest challenge that I have is that I am in Canada and the lesser populated Atlantic Canada to boot. The exchange rate and a lack of strong competition in the music store business keeps prices high and that 995 kit becomes listed well over $2000 in a local store here.

I have bought lots of stuff from across he border, Jeep parts mostly, but between the exchange, shipping and likely duty, a $999 set quickly approaches approaching $1500, therefore the used version for $1000, (probably negotiable to 8 or 900) starts to be much more attractive than in might look in your geographic location. Rolands are priced ridiculously high around here. I had indeed been looking for them, hoping for a nugget.

Excellent information though. Leads me to follow up questions.

1st question.
How significant are the single zone pads of the Explorer to a beginner. I'm not looking for an Indy car but by not having to worry about where I hit a pad, would I be developing bad habits or am I getting to complicated for now? Would I miss out on being able to simulate rimshots and other types of hits?

Question #2
Assuming the $995 US Roland set is going to cost me $1500 to $1600 Canadian by the time it hits my doorstep and I get a duty bill in the mail. Would the mesh snare and additional quality be worth the $600 dollars it would cost me over the Yamahas?

More than 600 actually, because I'd still be short a kick pedal. throne, etc. that comes with the used Yammies.

I love this board. So much to learn from so many.

Thanks Rockhead. I have most of the day in Ottawa to kill tomorrow as I have another crazy 6:00am flight. It should hold a lot more options for music stores and I'm always uncomfortable hanging out at our grand total of two local shops because there will always be somebody in there I know. Actually, I'm not a shy guy but it should be fun to try out some gear without feeling pressured into buying local.

I still think we need to start some USA <--> Canada, super secret trading club. Sneaking gear and such across the border...

I wouldn't worry too much about the single zone just starting out. Heck, I wouldn't worry too much about it now and I've been drumming for over 26 years. The only way to get better about proper techniques is to practice. Jamming out to your favorite tunes is great fun, but you will need to really spend some time practicing. Find some good video series that you can play along with. There are also many videos on YouTube and such for training and technique.

Well, my wife just got home with some dinner, so I'm gonna go eat. Keep asking questions, and I am sorry that I didn't pay attention to you being in Canada. I know that impacts things a lot.

Murph,
Check out as much gear as you can. It can be a little overwhelming at first. One thing to keep in mind is if you do purchase a Roland kit you can always upgrade the components as you see fit. I waited a long time to purchase my Roland set as I didn't have the space available.
One of the best websites around for electronic drum info is:
http://www.vdrums.com/forum/
Much like the Axiom forum this group is extremely friendly and very knowledgeable.
Plus, they have a classified section advertising used equipment for sale.
Go hit some drums!
Cheers,
Shaun

I can second the vdrums.com forum. Good people over there.

We had one, it was called NAFTA, and it pretty much involved us selling out our natural resources, and American companies being able to flood cheap products up from Mexico.

But if someone wants to trade me driving a van full of Axiom speakers down there for them driving a truck full of .223, 7.62 Warsaw and .45ACP up here, I'm all for it.

Bren R.

Funny cause its so saddly true Bren.

I off to find a patient and/or deaf salesman in a Music store to play around a bit. Should be a fun thing to do before my meetings start at 5:00pm.

Yes, but my super secret trading club isn't government run, it is run by us! LOL

Getting closer.
Played around at Long & McQuade in Ottawa Saturday and smaller music shop with fantastically high prices but very friendly people.

I'm probably going to go with a set of Roland TD3SW. Roland's entry level set but as per lots of advice, upgradeable and even in my newness I could tell that the mesh snare is a valuable feature.

Canadian prices are actually worse than American plus rate conversion. However I have yet to confirm if there are duty on these items. I'm suspecting so.

I was also looking at the next step up in the Roland's but used as per this link.
Roland TD6 - Used
In email inquiries, he has moved down a couple of hundred and it includes a throne and kick pedal that I would otherwise have to add to the price of a new set.

I'm likely shying away though as I have heard from the drummer who agreed to go view them for me that electronic drums rely on a (did he say glass?) sensor in each pad that has a limited lifespan and that it is a given that they eventually fail. Hours of use and the heaviness of the use are the variables. Therefore, he refuses to advise much on any used purchases due so he has me a bit spooked for used electronic drums.

I'm hoping to get this all completed prior to Christmas as my wife has agreed to spend the extra money for an electronics set as a Christmas present but I wonder if it is really more of a present to her to not have the much heavier noise of an enthusiastic beginner on an acoustic set.

Another word about the TD6 setup, that is using the original (older) TD6 module. The newer one is charcoal colored, not blue, and has some nice improvements. As for the sound library, the TD3 module actually has "newer" sound samples than the TD6, and some argue that it (the TD3) has more usable sounds and drum sets than the TD6 which has more total.

I've never heard of a "glass" sensor before, so I don't think that is correct. There should be piezos in there...

Well, as you can guess by my new Avatar, I'm the very exited owner of a new Roland TD-3sw set. My thanks to the vdrums.com dude whom I mercilessly ripped off the avatar from. Let's hope he is not an Axiom owner.

My wife actually made the call as it is ultimately a Christmas present from her. I was just doing all the leg work. Further research showed that my buddies fears of sensors breaking down were not as well founded according to the e-drumming community at large, especially for the better made Rolands. However, my wife had already gone out and purchased me the new set yesterday after being equally spooked by his advice.

In any case, I'm not disappointed at all as this will be a great kit to get started on and I suspect it will be a good while before I could actually justify any major upgrades. Notice I said, justify, not crave. I fully expect upgraditis to take advantage to this new weakness to my immune system.

Got them set up last night but couldn't find my stereo extension cord for the 1/4 jack required for running a headset so I haven't actually heard what they sound like yet. I know all the pads are working from the LEDs but I can't wait to get home tonight and actually hear how bad I am.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Hey, CONGRATS Murph!

Of course, the fact that you're setting up your Christmas present may not go over too well with a certain forum member who is sitting on his hands so he doesn't drive to his in-laws to set up a certain Blu-Ray player!

Guess we won't be seeing you too much for the next week or two, huh?

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

I was thinking the same thing reading his post about setting up his Christmas present last night, and then I saw yours! Too funny... I guess... but I am still mad... (about not getting my present, congrats on the drums! )

Murph,
Congratulations on your early Christmas present. Did you get a kick pedal and throne as well? Don't worry about how bad you sound, we all started out as beginners. There is a lot information on YouTube about drumming including free lessons etc.
Have fun!
Cheers,
Shaun

Thanks all.

There was indeed a kick pedal waiting for me when Christmas struck early. A Pearl, model somethin somethin. Not high end but shouldn't self destruct any time soon. I'm still throneless but hopefully, not for long.

I've been scoping out the amazing amount of free lessons at FreeDrumLessons.com I also have the opportunity to buy this set of 12 instructional DVDs for $30 bucks from a guy at work. http://www.icanplaydrums.com/ I probably would have dismissed this sight as being too cheesy but it actually gets very strong reviews over at vdrums.com. Plus for $30 bucks, I can't really go wrong.

A friend will offer pointers and corrections on technique and I haven't ruled out formal lessons yet but I'm going to go this route for now until I feel I need the personal touch.

I can actually do some basic beats and fills already but I have a long way to go before I could incorporate it into music, but learning is the fun part. I tend to only get bored with things when I reach my max potential and I don't see that happening with a musical instrument....ever.

Just remember that if you sit down and work on technique every day BEFORE just jamming out, you will be better off in the end. A lot of new drummers (as I would guess would be the case with many instruments) want to just jam out all of the time, and while that is great fun, you need to discipline yourself, even for just 10 minutes, and work on technique... Then jam out, play attention to the technique that you have been working on (stick placement on the heads, wrist/finger movements, proper posture, steady beat, whatever)...

Enjoy!

PS. I've got a Pearl bass drum pedal too. The one I have can add a second pedal for my left foot as well, but I think that in 2 years they discontinued it or something because the price for the 2nd pedal add-on is $200 when it was about $100 a year ago.

Good advice. I'm a bit anal when it comes to training regimes for sports, education, etc. I balance that with a total disregard for order in my leisure time. I'm pretty determined to do this right.

The pedal is the Pearl P-120P. The instructions show how to add on and convert it to a double pedal but I think one will do me for a long time. Besides, if I start into a double bass pedal, I'd have to let my hair grow. I'm OK with that part but spandex pants kind of go against my dress code at work.

Now you are just being crazy! That is the same drum pedal I have! It isn't top of the line, but it isn't the low end garbage either. I've learned to really like mine after I messed with the tension springs and such. At first, I didn't like how loose it was, so I tightened it up, then I was fighting it every time I would press down, and now I've got it set right where I like it.

The double pedal slave is the Pearl P121TW, which is what has gone up in price quite a bit over the past 24 months.

Some day I'll get it. Right now I am focusing on my home theater again.

Wow. I just learned something. The pedal I have, the Pearl P-120P, which cost me about $75, and as I mentioned would cost another $210 (plus shipping and/or tax) to get the P-121TW slave to turn into a two pedal setup. OR I can just get a new P-122TW which is the exact same thing as BOTH of the above items, but instead of being around $300 (factoring in shipping and such), sells for about $180 locally with tax included!

So I may soon (Christmas?) have a P-120P pedal in outstanding condition for sale.

Here is the funny part. It was my wife who found this out as she was shopping around for the P-121TW.

Seems we both have very incredible wives. Off to the Scotch thread to find something to toast them with.