OK guys, the great America race is on next Sunday and for anyone interested in NASCAR, who is your pick to win the 500.

I am going to go out on a limb and pick Mark Martin, the guy is due to win something to put the "!" on his career, he has a great ride this year, and is a very patient and skilled driver.

paul

Good luck with finding more than a couple of us interested with that type of racing around here Paul.

Picking Mark Martin driving a Hendrick car with Gordon, Johnson and Junior as teammates would be going out on a limb? Nah, that team should be expected to be one of the top runners in the 500.
I'll go out on a limb and choose Bill Elliott and the Wood Brothers but don't count out Tony and his new driver Newman ... you know, that other Hendrick team.
Looks like Yates and a couple of the other Ford teams came loaded for bear, should be interesting but you know how that restrictor plate racing is, you never know until they cross the finish line.

Martin or Gordon will win it.

Well, Elliot sure knows how to get around a race track. I've always like Bill, like Mark, a clean well respected driver. He had a very fast car in practice.

For Mark, it just seems the gods are only willing to make him a brides made. Runner up to the championship 4 times, 2 years ago becasue NASCAR decided not to throw a caution, he gets 2nd to Harvick in the 500, and then this year he is 2nd to Turex for the start of this years 500. He's the luckiest, unluckiest driver ever to run in NASCAR.

paul

I like Mark and would love to see him win the 500, and if not I believe he will surely win a race or two this year ... I can only hope that Elliott will do equally as well. But you know how the plate races are, depends on who is left and who gets pushed to the front so it's really a crap shoot. I personally don't like the plate racing myself.

I also like Mark and I'd love to see him win. As Rick said it's all about timing and who is with you on the last lap. I just wish they would find a way to eliminate the restrictor plate, the racing really suffers because of it.

How fast are they going with the restrictor plate?

Pole position was set with 188mph

Eh... not very high then.

The restrictor plate reduces the amount of air that can be sucked into the engine, the reduces horse power. This does two things:

1. It limits the cars top speed to around 190 mph (yes that is pretty fast for a stock car) but without it they would be over 210 MPH. NASCAR has decided that this is too fast for the drivers and not safe.

2. It limits the time a car can get up to speed.

The result of this is for most of the race all 43 cars drive around in one huge pack using the "draft" to pass. Exciting for most people, not my wife, to watch and no problem as long as everyone behaves. But if a tire blows or someone gets silly, and this usually happens, it can take out half the field due to the close proximity of each car.

The late Dale E. always said, we don't need no plate, if you don't like the speed, then get off the track. Ironic thing is, he died during the 2001 Daytona 500.

paul

Interesting. I would have thought that stockers were generally safer than open wheel cars, and I know the Indycars get up to around 220 on some tracks.

I agree, they probably are be safer, but they are harder to contol at higher speeds. A stock car is more than 2 times as heavy as an open wheel car and the tire is less then twice as narrow. The handling is totally different. Open wheel cars like IRL, F1, and CART, can adjust the handling on their cars with buttons on the steering wheel. So as the car uses fuel, it gets lighter and the handling changes or if the track gets warmer or colder due to weather conditions the handling changes. Stock cars can't do this, they need to come into the pits to make adjustments.

Technology has overtaken safety in many respects regarding autosports in general. Race cars have continued to get faster despite various attempts to slow them down, and many of the traditional racetracks around the world were designed for considerably lower speeds than modern cars. Always shocking when you see footage from races like the Mille Miglia...people running across the streets, trees and buildings lining the roads, cliffs, potholes, donkey carts...while cars are whipping by at unGodly speeds.

Ah, good point. It's also probably a lot easier to get out of an open wheel car rapidly if you have to (well, other than stuck steering wheels.)

Here is why they run restrictor plates - Bill Elliot's "..... qualifying lap of 210.364 mph still stands as the single-lap speed record, as NASCAR mandated restrictor plates for the next year's race -- as a result of Bobby Allison's terrifying crash at Talladega in the 1987 Winston 500 -- and every one since."

I seem to remember some of the late 60's early 70's cars doing 220-230 mph during testing, pretty scary in those 4500lb cars with bias ply tires.

Jay, Elliot's speed that holds the record is 212.809 for the pole at Talladega in May of '87, the 210.364 is actually the pole speed he had for the Daytona 500 in Feb. of that year ... because of Allison's crash in May, NASCAR mandated the restrictor plates for the remaining races at Daytona and Talladega (both July races) of that year, I was there for both races.

I don't know that anybody ever went 220-230 on a closed course in a stock car in the 60's or early 70's, Buddy Baker broke the 200 mph mark in '70 driving a winged Dodge but due to rule changes I don't believe the 200 mph mark was set again until the early 80's by Cale Yarborough at Daytona ... if I remember correctly Lynn St. James set a couple of stock car records at Talladega, I believe Rusty Wallace uncorked the plate off of a stock car and ran 225ish. I believe that's about what St. James ran a few years earlier, Rusty said that speed he ran was most definitely too fast for the stock cars.

Google up a guy by the name of Russ Wicks, he holds the absolute record for a stock car of 244.9 at Bonneville ... that's scootin' for a 3400 pound car.

Rusty did 228 in testing in 2004 without a plate. And thinks they could hit 235 with some tweaking.

http://www.nascar.com/2004/news/headlines/cup/06/10/rwallace_talladega/index.html

One of the things that scared NASCAR after the Bobby Allison's crash in 87 was the fact that he tore down 100' of fence. This now not only causes danger to the drivers, but also to the fans. And an Injury or death to a fan at a NASCAR race in unaccepable.

I guess another quesiton is if they go rid of the plate, would they still run around in a big pack. I think the draft would eventually get them there.

pn

I don't believe they would run around in a big pack Paul, I think it would be just like the old days where there were several small packs of cars but who knows with today's technology ... can you imagine what Rusty's speed would have been in a draft? Close to 240 or above I suspect.

Not only were the cars slowed after Allsion's wreck but the tracks also added a lot of safety devices for the fans afterwards, one of the first items was the addition of several heavy cables that ran alongside the fencing that were anchored securely into the concrete to keep the cars on the track. The biggest changes in safety devices for the cars and drivers didn't take place until after Dale Earnhrdt's crash in '01. These new cars seem to be built so well safety wise that the driver's are really starting to get crazy with them on the superspeedways ... 'Superman and Bullet proof'?

I do know one thing, even with the plates the cars are still getting around that track in a hurry, the TV just doesn't do them any justice whatsoever as to how fast and close the cars really are, even on the smallest half mile tracks they run on.

I'll be pulling for Elliott and the Woods, any Yates cars or most anybody else except for Edwards.

Instead of using these restrictor plates, why not just reduce the engine size specs? what are the limits on cc's right now?

I think it would be expensive to do that. They would then need to have 2 engine programs. Much cheaper just to pop a plate and gasket in the carb.

I know one of the biggest complaints the drivers have with the plates is not just top end speed, but it also reduces "0 to 60" speed. The cars become sluggust and not as responsive. This requires them to stick together, so they don't loose the draft, even during pit stops.

I remember a few years ago they tried to open up the plate to give them more HP, but added a rail on the roof of the car to keep the top speed down. I thought it was a good idea and the racing was pretty good, but NASCAR abanadonded it.

The 'minor-league' (Nationwise) series just under the Cup series did run V-6s for a couple of years but they still had to run the restrictor plates on the superspeedways, some initially thought with the new 'boxy' car that recently came out for Cup they could eliminate the plates but it didn't, they did open them up a little giving the cars a little more power for passing.

Keep in mind also that the restrictor plates are only used on the 2.5 mile superspeedways so the cars are faster on the 1.5 mile tracks than the big tracks. Crazy huh.

You really need to view a race in person to appreciate just how good the drivers are. I've been to over 70 Cup races over the years and enjoyed every single one of them, but nowadays I'll only hit one or maybe two.

Wow, 70, that's just awsome Rick! My wife and I have been to a few; Pocno, Martinsville (twice), and Vegas. Hoping to get to the Coca Cola 600 this spring. I've never seen a night race, would like to do that next.

You are right, I don't care how good your audio system is, there is nothing like hearing 43 of this cars, in person, live, race by you when the green flag waves.

paul

Imagine that, a Wisconsin Boy wins the Daytona 500. Just as I predicted. Not really, my pick was Tony Stewart. Oh well....On Wisconsin

Man you guys have a lot of good drivers that come from your area Ed, must be something in the water up there!

I actually like Matt and am glad to see him get back into the winners circle again ... don't know if it was ever mentioned, but I'm wondering if he is the first driver to win the Daytona 500 after starting dead last in the field?

Tony looked tough, Kyle looked awesome ... too bad it ended short.

I am a pretty big Kenseth fan, as Martin was the one to bring him into the sport, so ya, really happy here, but I still hate it when these races are cut short. I know a win is a win, but to me it still seems like a hollow victory. I remember this happened to Micheal Waltrip a few years ago too.

What was going on with Dale JR? Missing pits, aggressive driving, causing the big one, that's not like him. He looked strange in his interview too. Seemed to me like a bit of a scatterbrain. He'll be interesting to watch over the next few races.

Some scary tire issuses with Jeff Gordon, not good, but had a really fast car. I think Mark and Jeff could have had something for a wind had they gone back racing.

paul

Paul I believe Jr was way too 'Amped' up this entire week, blew a pit stop during the dual 150s and blew two of 'em during the 500? I couldn't believe his reply to Berggren's question regarding how he could have missed his pit stall during that early caution flag "I'm under a lot of pressure man!" ... yea, right. I believe NASCAR blew it whenever they assessed the 5 lap penalty to Jason Lefler during the Nationwide race but let Jr. slide with that retaliation move on Vickers taking out the front runners. Gotta feel for Kyle on that one.

Maybe Jr is on the same drugs the Gibbs were taking whenever they hired that 18 year old to jump into the 20 car, it's pretty bad whenever a team mate had to get in the car during practice because Logano didn't know what the car 'was supposed to feel like in the draft' ... my lord.

Overall I thought the race pretty much sucked and was one of the worse 500's I've seen in a very long time, glad to see Kenesth win but that race reinforces my reasons why I believe restrictor plate racing isn't good racing. Also NASCAR totally blew it by having the Daytona 500 start so late in the afternoon, the 'Great American Race' can't even finish due to rain and darkness? Wow.

He missed his pit stall 3 times?! That's just awful.

They can't race in the dark at a superspeedway? That's also awful!

Ken NASCAR has a painted box for each pit stall and their rules are that the car has to be pitted inside of the box, but due to the angle the cars has to enter the pit box sometimes they do allow the right rear tire of the car to be outside of the box but will penalize if any other part of the car is outside of the lines. On Thursday's qualifying races Dale Jr slid through his box and had to back up into the box before they could pit the car, on Sunday's 500 he completely missed his pit stall and had to go all of the way around the track to pit again and then later in the race he had both right side tires outside of the box but the crew went ahead and pitted the car and NASCAR penalized Dale Jr a 1 lap penalty ... in Jr's haste to get his lap back on the track he made a very aggressive move causing a multi-car wreck that cost at least three of the front running cars a chance at the win.

They can race in the dark at a Superspeedway, they have the lighting to do so but yesterday they said it would have probably been 11 p.m. before they could dry the track to race again and called it. They just started running the Daytona 500 later in the evening due to prime time TV coverage and my point is that if the race would have started earlier in the day like it used to it would have been finished before the rains cause it to be called. But I know mother nature is going to do what she wants to do on her time so my complaint is moot ... other than the fact that if the race started earlier in the day NASCAR wouldn't be so jumpy about calling it.

Calling a Daytona race is a peeve of mine through experience...

Years ago they ran the July 4th Daytona race at 10 in the morning so that they could get it in prior to the afternoon rain but moved it to a 8 p.m. start time to get the prime time coverage. My last two trips to the July race had both start times delayed by at least two hours due to rain so the race subsequently didn't end until after midnight and I didn't get back home until 4 and 5 in the morning, this happened two years in a row so I gave up my seats for Daytona and have not returned since.

Ah, ok. I could see the rain being a definite issue.

What peeved me (and has a couple of years) is the Indy 500. I watch it on TiVo, and I've lost the end of the race a couple of times. Drives me up the wall.

Ken I just recently noticed that whenever I DVR a show (Comcast cable) it now has an optional extended time if you choose, that comes in handy and I usually go for an additional 30 minutes. I've noticed in the past if a show is being recorded during the allotted time frame it will often skip the last minute or two of the show ... aggravating!

Oh, I add 3 hours to races. Unfortunately, with the rain delays Indy's been having that's not been enough.

Rick, I agree that the race should have been run much earlier. It really is a shame, as you said, when a race is called for weather and darkness. Hopefully it's a lesson learned.

I hear you, seems like the Indy 500 historically has been plagued with their own rain delays in the past.

I was watching the Winternationals drag race from Pomona a week ago and the final rounds got rained out, said they'll be ran on Monday morning and will be aired Monday night and I couldn't find it anywhere. The eliminations on Sunday were pretty wild, with the slick and cold track conditions I believe every pro car that ran had to do a lot of back peddling to get traction.

Did anyone catch Lemans a few years ago in the poring rain? some of the rooster tales would have put speed boats to shame.

Adrian I've been to the Rolex 24 at Daytona a time or two and have seen the rains come, first time I saw them run in the rain I was totally amazed with how slow they had to go with the slick tires whenever it first started to rain to how freaking fast they were on the rain tires. You're right, the rooster tails would have put an unlimited hydroplane to shame. The motorcycles are equally impressive.

F1 in the rain is highly amusing. They're nuts.

Remember when Schumacher ran into Coultard in the rain? that was a close one.

Now THAT'S crazy.

Ken one of my racing buds went to Indy for the F1 races and tried to get me to go every year but I didn't go for whatever reason and now I can kick myself in the azz for not doing so ... he told me the TV just doesn't do those F1 cars any justice whatsoever, said they were insanely fast.

I remember the days when the green flag for all afternoon NASCAR races was at 1:00 pm (ish). They have turned the pre-show into a bit of a circus. That is probably Sprint driving most of this. I don't think Winston cared as much. They seem to be trying too hard to match the Superbowl IMO.

Don't get me started on how NASCAR seems to manipulate the rules so that certain drivers get to win or get away with stuff. I remember in 07 at Pocono, J. Gordon car sucks, due to green flag pit stops, he is leading the race, Newman is 2 inches from passing him for the lead, and we get a yellow flag for rain, Gordon wins. I can think of a dozen or more other cases where a Hendrick car wins due to similar situations. I half kid with my wife that my fav driver could win 3 championships in a row if he cheated too, in reference to Chad Knaus's spotty record.

Jr, Gordon, and Johnson are the poster boys for NASCAR. Jr. and Vickers both need to be hit hard for they're driving yesterday. But I doubt we will see any of it. And you don't see any real critical analysis of the comentators either. "just a racing deal". Every one is a slave to their network / sponser.

We need a Don Cherry or Dave Hodge (CBC NHL personalities) for NASCAR!

paul

NASCAR also needs to review this double row restarts. With the "lucky dog" rule, there is no reason to have lap cars starting up front. I know they changed it from 10 to 20 laps this year, but that doesn't help when there is rain in the forcast. Had Vickers and Jr. been in the back of the pack, very different story yesterday.

paul

Paul, we need to hook up and attend a race together one of these days ... looks like the ingredients for a good time because we think alike.

I was reading an article today addressing the lap down cars and double file restarts, somebody suggested that if NASCAR is going to continue double file restarts to line the cars up just like the beginning with the leaders doubled up and all lapped cars behind them, the idea is that if a couple of cars gets tangled up front it's at least cars racing for position rather than trying to get a lap back. Sounds fair to me ... at least on the restrictor plate races, usually it's a non-issue at most other tracks.

Hey Rick, that sounds like a good idea. I will admit it. I am addicted to the sport. After a race like on Sunday, I tell my self I sould give it up, pack it in, and take up tennis. But as the weekend starts to get closer, I slip back into my usual mode of excitment and anticipation. And by Friday night, I'm hooked just like I was the week before.

I suppose there are worse things to be addicted too (can't think of any off hand, but I am sure they are out there).

BTW, my wife and are are considering going to the Coca Cola 600 in May. See, addicted! LOL!

paul