ok, still working on my rodeo issues, first thought it was the transmission, but thought I would start with some simple fixes like plugs, injector cleaner, etc. It has been a long time, if I have ever, that I've changed the plugs and wiring. When trying to pull out one of the plugs, the wire broke down just above the plug. Below is what the cable resemble, the plastic barrel was stuck down over the plug, I'm guessing since it has been soooo many years I tried a little wd40 and some needle nose to losen it, the plastic was brittle and began to break. After a lot of messing around, I was able to get one of the long barrels out. Now I find I don't have the right dang socket, I think I need 5/8".

Anyway, is there a trick to removing these cables, without me having to go out and purchase a cable removal tool. There is a lip on the top portion of the barrel.

The solution is simple. Buy a new car.

I know. I'm useless. I'll go back to my corner.

this is our 3rd extra vehicle I drive to work. I have a Chevy Silverado and my wife has a new Honda Pilot.

No real secrete I know of but I do try and twist the boot a few times before I start tugging on it.

Be careful spraying anything down by the sockets... Once the plug comes out, any of that stuff can and will go into the engine. After loosening (go buy a 5/8" plug socket if that is what you need) and before removing all the way, spray some compressed air in there to blow out any debris before the plug is all the way out.

There are few things more frustrating than stuck plugs and wires. be sure to use di-electric grease on the new plug wires or if you re-use the old ones to prevent them getting so stuck again in the future.

Not sure a little wd40 would hurt anything. When I used to winterize my boat motors, I always fogged the cylinder walls and turned it over a few times.

Good idea about the compressed air Nick.. I'll check on the grease as well, there is no way I'm going to reuse these cables, they are the originals.

Yeah, Randy you definitely want to replace those cables. I heard that Monster sells ignition cables that make the cars go a lot faster.

I don't think he was saying that the WD-40 would hurt anything itself, but it's tendency to loosen junk could create a problem when the plug is removed; that junk could fall down into the engine.

Also when installing plugs, I use anti-seize on the threads--as it a good idea when any two dissimilar metals are screwed together. This prevents galling when the plugs are next removed (I've seen pieces of an aluminum head stuck between the threads of a spark plug). And remember, the plugs don't need to be torqued to 150 ft lbs. The spec I use is to tighten them until the wrench handle has enough resistance to slip between a tightly squeezed middle-finger and thumb, then give it a quarter turn more (see the owners manual for actual torque specs).

I thought you had already done a tuneup or had one done, you just may be onto something. Follow the advise given here, it is all good. I usually just twist till I get some movement at the bottom, you will know when it happens, then pull the wire off. As a last resort you can always break the porcelain part of the spark plug off, reach in with some long neck needle nose pliers to remove the broken piece which will have the rubber still attached, blow the hole out with compressed air and then remove the rest of the plug.

The antisieze doesn't always prevent siezed spark plugs, but it does help and as Chris mentioned check for proper torque. His method is a good rule of thumb for gasketed spark plugs, which I am sure you have. It is easy to over torque them and under torquing can be just as bad. The spark plugs loosen off, then compression blows them out of the hole usually taking some of the cylinder head threads with it.

Thanks guys, I don't have a torque wrench, funny I didn't pick one up back when I was a MAC Tools rep. A friend of mine said to start them with your fingers so that you don't mess up the threads. Also, I plan to snug them up finger tight, then use the socket wrench to snug them up a little more, but not crank on them.

Funny thing is, in thinking back, I don't think the plugs or wires have ever been changed, and it has been running good up until lately.

130K miles on a 95, not bad.... I may drop some injector cleaner in the gas as well.

Jay (or others) something I have always wondered, how important is setting the gap when you put the new plugs in. I always do it out of habit but how perfect does it have to be to noticeably effect performance. I know others who don't bother and seem to get along fine.

Well actually, my good ol' reliable 4.0 ltr inline 6 seems to work best when I avoid fancy plugs and stick with your basic Champion model and it comes preset at a 'correct for me' .035 so I don't have to touch them. But I still wonder how much difference a tenth of a millimeter can make.

Murph, a couple of winters ago my neighbour couldn't get his snowmobile started, which had been in storage for the summer in his garage. He had mentioned that his fuel mileage had dropped off somewhat the year before as well. Anyway, after several minutes of attempts, I told him to check the gap on the plugs...he was reluctant, thinking that it had run the previous year and he hadn't changed the gap. Well, we tried and tried to start it, figuring that maybe it just needed to burn off the fogging oil, but it just wouldn't catch. We took out the plugs finally and checked the gap...If I recall(couple of years ago) it had measured somewhere around .030" so I checked his engine (700 cc Skidoo) online and I believe the required gap was around .024". We tried cranking the motor with the plugs out to check for a spark at .030 to no avail, so I suggested we gap both plugs down at .002" increments to see where the motor would start. At .028" nothing, wouldn't catch, at .026" it was catching but only just...hard to start, but started non-the-less with a rough idle. So we took it down to the recommended .024" and it started much easier and ran better, although there was still a touch of roughness in the idle so we actually took it down to a gap of .022-.023 and it ran/started easily and smoothly. That could have easily explained why he was using so much fuel before and also would have made his sled run rough with much less power. I know this is a TWO stroke motor and may well be more succeptable to gap changes but I was amazed that such a small adjustment was the difference between not starting and running well(literally a few thous)...after that, it started on the first crank, every time.

Jay, the problem is that this plastic piece is to recessed in the spark plug hole to be able to twist it free. I tried needle nose, but pieces kept breaking off. My guess is that since I've never changed the plugs/cables they have become one.

Anyway, I was able to get it loose eventually. I may see what one of those removal pullers would cost. This would help eliminate dropping pieces down the cylinder.

Jay, the problem is that this plastic piece is to recessed in the spark plug hole to be able to twist it free. I tried needle nose, but pieces kept breaking off. My guess is that since I've never changed the plugs/cables they have become one.

Anyway, I was able to get it loose eventually. I may see what one of those removal pullers would cost. This would help eliminate dropping pieces down the cylinder.

I meant the twisting part before it breaks off. Once it is broken off then anything is fair game. I have used pry bars down beside the plug and a quick snap of the porcelain to break that section free. I am all too familiar with this scenario, it is not fun.

Murph, the plug gap is quite critical as Adrian pointed out. The older style non-HEI ignition systems were only good for ~20,000V and would only jump a much smaller gap. This is more or less the case Adrian had with that skidoo. The coil just didn't have enough power in it to jump the larger gap and Chrysler products are reknown for weak ignition coils. I can remember.035" as a standard and Champion is the OEM plug of choice by Chrysler, amazingly set to .035" from the factory. It seems to me the early to mid 90s is when almost all manufacturers had coils strong enough to jump larger gaps for increased fuel mixture burn in a bid to increase fuel mileage. I could get into the theories of flame fronts and ignition timing and how all of that relates to the plug gaps but I won't. I will say that if the top fuel dragsters and funny car guys get as anal as to have all the electrodes on their spark plugs lined up in the exact same position, say 6 oclock in when installed in the head, not to mention the plug gap on all cyliders, just to coax an extra tenth or thousandth of a second there must be something to it.

Cool Thanks guys. My question is well answered.
Another one of those things I did religiously but never knew why, is now better explained.

update: don't have time to tell you about all the rediculous problems I had, but the plugs/cables are in and the Rodeo is running like brand new again, not slugish anymore. Must not have been the transmission.

I do plan to get the tranny fluid/filter changed anyway someday.

thanks for all the help.

I don't exactly remember the miles you mentioned and am too lazy to click my way back to the top but I remember thinking it would be a good idea anyways.

Glad to hear things are running smooth again. Nothing more frustrating than a car that's not quit performing. Sometimes it's how I feel about getting a cold. Instead of weeks of trying hopeless remedies, sometimes I'd rather just have a bad flu for a couple of days and get it over with

Glad to hear it worked out, I figured it would once I heard you still the original wires and plugs in it. Almost always, a tune up is the first place to start, you did very well getting that much mileage out of the originals. I highly doubt you will get that much out of this set. I would be pulling the plugs out every 20K - 30K miles just to see how much the electrodes have worn down and to ensure the plug wires don't get as burned on as they were.

Yeah, I was suprised how much of the electrodes had been warn down compared to the recommended gap. Funny thing, these were Champian plugs in it, which I highly doubt are from the factory. I wonder if some mechanic in the past robbed my original ones and put in crap.

I still need to probably get the tranny fluid/filter changed. Just need to decide if I want to try to tackle it myself or pay to have it done.

That makes my brain hurt. I feel like a schlub for replacing my plugs every 2nd year, and wires as needed, usually every 3-5... and, back in the day, rotor and cap with the plug changes.

Dad sent his 1988 cargo van to the shredder last year with the original plugs in it.

"What's that ticking? Maybe I should get the plugs done."
'That's a noisy lifter, dad... but when was the last time you did plugs?'
" "

Bren R.

, I have done many tune ups on vehicles like that, no electrodes left at all remaining on a few. Gotta love the HEI ignition systems, burn a hole through anything if left long enough.

Champion may not be the most expensive, but their are some motors that they seem to work better than anything else in. My last two engines were variations of the Chrysler 4.0 Ltr. Inline 6 and and I tried platinum, v-groove, just about everything to get some cleaner low end torque but Champion Truck plugs work better than them all in my rig. Googling Jeeps and recommended park plugs seems to agree.

Champion is the OEM plug for Chrysler and I too have tried many different brands with Chrysler products and find Champions to work the best, same with Ford and Motorcraft and just about any Japanese vehicle likes NGK.

Ok, I've got the Rodeo running again like the day I drove it off the show room floor back in 95 by changing the plugs and wires.

As you recall, I originally thought my transmission might have issues, proved that wrong.

Tonight when I got home after driving home from work, I pulled out the manual to see how to check things. It said to place the vehicle in Park, on a flat surface, put the emergency break on, cycle from Park down through all the gears, and back to Park (automatic transmission). Then check the dip stick and feel the fluid, if warm or above room temp, check the hot level, if below that, check the cold line.

Then, whipe it off, put it back in, recheck and smell for a burnt smell (like burnt toast), and check the color to see if it is muddy or dark looking.

Well, it seem clear with a hint of pinkish blended in and did not smell burnt. So does this tell me I'm most likely ok, I can't recall the last time or if it has ever been done. I've read some cars mfg's will say upto 100K, where some say every 30K or so...

I've got at least 5 friends that have vehicles with way higher miles than mine, and they have never changed the fluid. Also, what about the rumor that if you never have, it could cause other issues to all of a sudden change it....

100,000 kms (that's kilometers) sounds about average from what I've heard...that would be about 62,000 miles. I've got close to 160,000 klms (around 100,000 miles) and haven't changed either the trans fluid or filter, never noticed a problem but at this point it would probably be good preventative maintenance to get it done. For the record, I don't think many people get it done either.

***pulls shirt collar sideways*** it's getting hot in here.

Transmission fluid was originally designed to "last the life of the car" what ever that means. If you are not hard on the transmission, do not do a lot of stop and go driving/towing/racing etc. then you can get away with not having to change out the fluid. When trans fluid heats up it allows the clutch packs to slip/burn and it will leave a residue on everything leading to failure. This heating up also changes the chemcal composition of the fluid so it doesn't work as intended. So if you know you are hard on a transmission you really should be changing out the fluid in the 50,000km/30,000mile range.