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Posted By: Adrian Woodworking Question - 04/23/12 07:49 PM
Here's a question for some of you good woodworking guys, maybe you can advise me...

I'm going to be installing some Sucupira flooring soon. The hardness of this wood(Janka scale 1800 to 2700) is akin to roughly twice the hardness of White Oak(Janka scale 1360 approx) which may tax my saws/blades. My mitre and table saws are both 15 amps, but I'm thinking I might instal some new blades on them having already cut loads of hardwood flooring and mdf trim on them already.

So, any saw blade suggestions(I have Freud presently), and also I'm thinking some kind of saw blade lube might help...any suggestions there?

Thks, Adrian
Posted By: michael_d Re: Woodworking Question - 04/23/12 08:07 PM
I like Forrest blades.
Posted By: Adrian Re: Woodworking Question - 04/23/12 08:14 PM
What about using blade lube, Michael? do you think it does as advertised(easier cutting, saves blades)?
Posted By: michael_d Re: Woodworking Question - 04/23/12 08:22 PM
I dunno.... I never heard of such a thing. I have used some of the coated blades before, and they seamed to work quite well.

The Forrest blades though...., they just freaking cut and stay sharp forever. Even though they don't have as many teeth, they leave a better cut. Their customer service is quite helpful too. You might just want to give them a call and find out what they recommend. Their sharpening service is top notch too.

A thin kerf helps for harder wood, but if you have the HP, I'd stick with 1/8" as they do not vibrate and tend to leave a smoother cut.
Posted By: Adrian Re: Woodworking Question - 04/23/12 08:27 PM
I believe the blade lubes are a wax based lubricant, supposed to help prevent binding/clogging....I don't know what to expect when I start cutting this hardwood having never cut anything harder than oak before. Probably a good idea to contact the blade manufacturers, as you say.
Posted By: fredk Re: Woodworking Question - 04/23/12 08:42 PM
Adrian. Have you talked to the folks at Lee Valley? Generally I have found their advice to be spot on.
Posted By: Joe_in_SC Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 01:30 AM
Forrest blades are excellent but pricey. Whatever you use is probably going to get dull fairly quickly. I'd try a decent Freud thin kerf blade on the table saw. Don't force the material, move it at a steady pace that doesn't bog the saw down.

Thin kerfs don't work nearly as well for crosscutting, so you might want to go with a Forrest blade for the miter saw.

Make sure both saws are all tuned up and cutting properly. If they're not, the blades will have to work a lot harder and get dull much faster.
Posted By: dakkon Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 04:45 AM
like joe said, Freud blades are quite good.

This is the blade that i have on my compound miter saw.. It cuts very clean and has stayed sharp for quite some time. I primarily cut pine though.

I though about getting a Forrest, but the freud blade was about 1/2 the price and had just as good reviews on amazon..

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU91R012-12-...2454&sr=8-7

I have never used and blade lube, and none of the carpenters that i have ever talked to have said anything about using blade lube either.
Posted By: BobKay Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 01:41 PM
I'm with everyone here. Forrest are tops, but about $110 ea. (US).

To save some $$, bring the Freud blades you have been using to be sharpened and get a new set of Freuds. Don't buy the $39 home center Freud blades. The good ones are about $60. I don't know if they still make Avanti Ice, but those were really great for the price.

If you DO spend the Forrest $$, remember, the better the blade the more easily (and more times) it can be sharpened with excellent results.

I always thought that sharpening metal stuff was a popular Canadian hobby, no?
Posted By: Murph Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 03:59 PM
If you are referring to hockey skates, yup. It's both an industry and an art form.
Posted By: Adrian Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 04:03 PM
I contacted Freud and they suggested I use one of their "Thin Kerf Glue Line" ripping blades, either LM74R010 or LM75R010(both 30T) on my table saw and use the LU74R012(80T) "Thin Kerf Ultimate Cut-Off" blade on my mitre saw. All blades have the perma shield coating on them.

Thank you for all the suggestions.
Posted By: Murph Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 04:05 PM
Perma-shield eh?
Is that the same as women's flannel pyjamas?
Posted By: michael_d Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 07:38 PM
Another good blade worth mentioning is Infinity. I have their 8" Dadonator and have been very happy with it. Their router bits are quite good as well at a fair price point. Price wise, they are less than Forrest, a bit more than Freud. They have some combo sets you might want to look at.

Ridge Carbide makes a great blade, but pricey. I've heard good things about Tenryu, but have not tried them. Also spendy.
Posted By: medic8r Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 09:01 PM
Freud is my hero!

Wait, wrong thread.

Freud is also one of the best rock bands of all time. You know, Pink Freud.



"Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar, you're gonna go far!"
Posted By: MarkSJohnson Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 09:12 PM
Originally Posted By: medic8r
"Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar, it's just a ceee-gar" - Freud


There 'ya go, Doc!
Posted By: BobKay Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 11:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Murph
If you are referring to hockey skates, yup. It's both an industry and an art form.


Crap! I didn't think of that! I was trying to insult a lage group of people with a single sentence. Rats!

Even though we're still in it, the hockey thing doesn't excite as many Bostonians as you might think. Most of the dickweeds you see jumping out of their expensive seats and hurling themselves violently at the glass are from New Hampshire. Hell, everything bad that exists in Massachusetts commutes over the border from there.
Posted By: BobKay Re: Woodworking Question - 04/24/12 11:29 PM
Originally Posted By: medic8r

Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar, you're gonna go far! --- Bill Clinton (in a pinch)

Posted By: Wegiz Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 01:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Adrian
I contacted Freud and they suggested I use one of their "Thin Kerf Glue Line" ripping blades, either LM74R010 or LM75R010(both 30T) on my table saw and use the LU74R012(80T) "Thin Kerf Ultimate Cut-Off" blade on my mitre saw. All blades have the perma shield coating on them.

Thank you for all the suggestions.


I too am a big fan of Freud blades. I have the same "80 tooth, ultimate cut-off" on my miter saw and although it makes for incredibly smooth cuts, I don't really like it. The previous Freud 60 tooth blade I had also made very clean cuts, but with the lower number of teeth (and the resulting larger capacity for sawdust between the teeth, they cut faster.

Good luck!
Posted By: tomtuttle Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 01:23 AM
Holy Crap! It's Frank! Welcome back!
Posted By: Murph Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 01:57 PM
I'm a big believer in using different blades for different uses. You didn't mention the exact brand/type but I'm guessing that the 80 tooth blade is designed to make smooth cuts, as you mentioned, and is best for smaller or detail pieces where you can't afford to have a chip along the edge, like when you are cutting trim, for instance.

For less perfectionist work, it is often too slow & can not handle to much forced pressure on the cut for reasons as you described above. Our human nature is to try to rush through a rougher cut, so we are all more likely to try and cut too fast with it and then it can't clear, bogs down or maybe even maybe burns the wood. Also, they are generally more expensive so it doesn't make sense to use them except when they are needed.

I generally keep a general purpose blade on my saw for quick work. I'll switch to a 24 tooth ripping blade to zoom through ripping bulk lumber or rough cross cuts. Think sizing up 2x4s and such. No use wearing out my speciality blades on this type of work.

My general purpose blade seems good enough for the bulk of my work, even some nicer cross cuts depending on the wood type, but if I want pristine results, I'l switch to the 80 toother and take my time. I actually have more than three blades but that summarizes the 4 main types of wood cuts.
Posted By: Ken.C Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 02:16 PM
What sort of general purpose blade do you use? I have what appears to be a vaguely decent blade on my new/old saw, but it would be good to replace it. I had some trouble the other day, but I think that was because the belt was loose. Tightened it up, and it behaved better.
Posted By: Murph Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 02:48 PM
It's a Forrest purchased through Lee Valley.

I can't recall the exact model but I can tell you that I actually paid more for this general purpose blade than I paid for my Freud, thin kerf, 80 tooth blade. It works like magic though compared to the general purpose blade that came with the saw.
Posted By: Adrian Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 05:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Wegiz

I too am a big fan of Freud blades. I have the same "80 tooth, ultimate cut-off" on my miter saw and although it makes for incredibly smooth cuts, I don't really like it. The previous Freud 60 tooth blade I had also made very clean cuts, but with the lower number of teeth (and the resulting larger capacity for sawdust between the teeth, they cut faster.

Good luck!

I was wondering about Freud's suggestion of the 80T, myself. I'm not needing a superfine finish on the edge of the crosscut in this case as any flooring that gets cut will have it's cut-edge hidden under baseboard trim or a transition strip of somekind. I'm wondering if a 24T(10") will be better than the 30T(10") they recommended for ripping this flooring, too.
Posted By: Murph Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 06:01 PM
If you are ripping lengths of it, you will likely need the additional horsepower that the medium to lower tooth counts give you. However, if you need to also crosscut with it, you might not like the results.

The good news is that since you have both a mitre and a table saw, you don't have to choose. Try a ripping blade on the table saw and do some test cuts to see if it produces the desired results for ripping. As long as it leaves no big tears, you are good to go.

Since the wood you mentioned is extremely hard, invest in a 'good' crosscut blade on the mitre saw and do some test cuts. You may not need or even want the 80 tooth versions on such a hard wood (note I'm not familiar with Sucupira, I'm just going by your description.) Really hard wood is much more forgiving for tears in the mid-tooth range and as you say a fine tooth blade may just have to work too hard.
Posted By: Murph Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 06:03 PM
Forgot to mention. Take the time to carefully calibrate your table saw when using really hard woods. Also take extra time, every time, when adjusting your fence. Any lateral pressure on the blade is going to quickly bog it down or burn your wood till it's nearly on fire and ruin your expensive blade. It needs to be set up super straight to keep it running smooth.
Posted By: Adrian Re: Woodworking Question - 04/25/12 06:27 PM
Good information Andrew, thanks.

One of the problems I had with ripping hardwood flooring on my previous house, was that some of the planks were bowed slightly, or stress would be released while ripping and hence causing some binding/burning at times. That wood was a type of African Mahogany with a hardness similar to Oak.

One of the things that makes the Sucupira so hard apparently, is it has silica in it's grain structure. It's very stable however, so I'm hoping it won't warp or bend upon cutting.
Posted By: Haoleb Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 01:01 AM
I have been using the Freud Diablo blades from home depot for a few years and have always had great luck with them. However one downside I have noticed with them is that they do not always give me perfectly square cuts as there is some kind of blade deflection going on as you go through the cut. I didnt really think it was the blade until I was reading reviews on amazon for the same blades and other people had noticed the same thing.

Overall I will continue to use them since for the price I have yet to find any blades that cut as well as they do. However Once I finally get my own saws I certainly will be investing in something more high end for stuff that needs to be...perfect.
Posted By: michael_d Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 01:11 AM
I used to switch between a rip blade and a cross cut blade quite a bit. Since I've had the Forrest WWII 48 tooth, it stays on the saw. I have not tried their blades for the RAS, as I tend to use that saw for lumber, nails, staples, etc.. No sense spending much money on blades for that saw.
Posted By: BobKay Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 01:44 PM
Really, no switching?! I gotta get one. Do I have to get the WWII model, or is there one made after 1945?

A note on tooth counts and rake:

24-50 for ripping (table saw), 60-100 for crosscuts (chop saw). 80-100 tooth blades for table saw are for plyood and melamine, as they are prone to chipout and the high tooth count reduces that. Combo blades (for table saw) usually have 40-50 teeth.

It's to much info to get into detail about tooth rake (angle)here, as there are numerous choices) but check it out on any woodworking site. It designates the angle of the teeth, some of which have opposing bevels on every other tooth. Each blade's rake(s) determines its optimum cutting task.
Posted By: BrenR Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 02:05 PM
Originally Posted By: BobKay
melamine, as they are prone to chipout

And a further safety piece - glasses are not safety glasses... ended up with a small chip of melamine in the eye about 4 years ago. Ouch.

Bren R.
Posted By: michael_d Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 05:23 PM
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Really, no switching?! I gotta get one. Do I have to get the WWII model, or is there one made after 1945?


I never can tell if you are just being a smart ass or joking Robert... If I am about to rip a bunch of 6/4 hardwood, I may put a thin kerf rip blade in the saw, just because it's faster and I might get a couple more board instead of a larger pile of sawdust, but the WWII (wood worker II) stays in the saw. I was using a Frued 80T ATB (ultamate line), and find the end grains are smoother with the WWII.

I do have a blade I use for melamine, or any sort of coated sheet good like laminate where chip out is a concern. It's an older Delta triple chip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJcRGhgbpBM
Posted By: MarkSJohnson Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 06:11 PM
I keep a WoodWorker II in mine as well.

No one can EVER tell when Bob is serious since he refuses to use emoticons! wink <--- See?
Posted By: Joe_in_SC Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 08:37 PM
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
No one can EVER tell when Bob is serious since he refuses to use emoticons! wink <--- See?

I believe Bob's position would be that only lesbians use emoticons (wink, wink).
Posted By: medic8r Re: Woodworking Question - 04/26/12 09:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Joe_in_Ct
I believe Bob's position would be that only lesbians use emoticons (wink, wink).

It's true. In fact, Subaru is going to rename the Forester after the next redesign; it will be the Emoticon. Consolidates the brand image.
Posted By: BobKay Re: Woodworking Question - 04/27/12 12:23 AM
Originally Posted By: michael_d
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Really, no switching?! I gotta get one. Do I have to get the WWII model, or is there one made after 1945?


I never can tell if you are just being a smart ass or joking Robert...


Now you're splitting ocean bunnies, Bren.

Neither for the first two sentences. I'm gonna use the Rockler discount card that came in the mail today and buy a Forrester on Saturday. The 2nd sentence is as silly as giving any product a model # of WWII.
Posted By: BobKay Re: Woodworking Question - 04/27/12 12:25 AM
Originally Posted By: Joe_in_Ct
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
No one can EVER tell when Bob is serious since he refuses to use emoticons! wink <--- See?

I believe Bob's position would be that only lesbians use emoticons (wink, wink).


Then you ALL qualify!
Posted By: BobKay Re: Woodworking Question - 04/27/12 02:16 AM
Originally Posted By: medic8r
Originally Posted By: Joe_in_Ct
I believe Bob's position would be that only lesbians use emoticons (wink, wink).

It's true. In fact, Subaru is going to rename the Forester after the next redesign; it will be the Emoticon. Consolidates the brand image.


"Hi, this is Martina Navrotilova for the new Subaru Emoticon."

Hey, she got every other lesbianoecian in the English speaking world to buy one the last time she shilled for Subaru.

Stop me. You know what happened the last time I did a story board for a car ad. I maligned a prefectly respectable disease, that's what.
Posted By: BrenR Re: Woodworking Question - 04/27/12 01:30 PM
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Now you're splitting ocean bunnies, Bren.

(psst... wrong guy)

Bren R.
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