The good ol' Watercooler. Place for manly men to discuss vacuum cleaners, bath towels and chainsaws. I need to buy some cookware now. Figured I might as well start a manly cookware thread......

During a ridiculous display of juvenile antics, lacking any and all thought about what in the hell I would do afterwards, I pitched a bunch of cookware. I have been 'thinking' about getting some nice cookware for a few years, but every time I look at just how expensive it is, I move on and end up in the tool section. But over the years my collection of crap from Costco and other chain stores has degraded to mostly unusable and disgusting to look at. So I figured that if I just pitch the crap, I'd be forced to buy some new stuff. Smart!! - Not....

A couple hours researching this has me pondering the wisdom of my motivational tactics. Sonofabitch this stuff is expensive!!! Ya, they make some cheap stuff, but then I'd start the cycle all over again. So I'm not going cheap. We have one saucepan that I splurged on last year. A Le Crueset SS pan. Cost me almost $200. It is very nice, and has enough heft to bludgeon a water buffalo to death. I figured I'd buy some more. Then I found out that my nice SS "French" Le Crueset sausepan is actually manufactured in China, unlike the coated cast iron Le Crueset stuff we have - go figure. I've been in a mood lately to do my best to not buy stuff from China. It's my feeble little war against the inevitable economic world takeover that China is conducting. I'd prefer to stick to that flippant course of action, but may just have to cave. So that leaves All-Clad and a few others. All are downright disgustingly expensive. Crap, what did I get myself into.

Well we do like to cook, and I figure I have a good twenty years left before I kick the bucket, unless I do something stupid, so I might as well splurge a bit.

I hate the handles on the All-Clad. They put my wrist an an unnatural angle. So made in the USA All-Clad stuff is off my list of contenders.

I don't like rivets in pans either. I just don't have the patience required to clean all around the damn things.

I really like the look of those pans on the majority of the cooking channel shows. I found out the ones that I thought looked really cool are Demeyere: Atlantis line. Made in Germany. Seven ply stuff. I can buy a car for what a set of this stuff costs. I might have to sell the vette. Probably should, before I do something stupid in it, well 'stupider' than I've already done.

Mauviel is made in France (Really is this time), again expensive. I can't tell if they use rivets though. About the same price point as the Demeyere stuff. I did find a set on clearance for about 30% off though, tempting. But it's French! ...so I should be able to burn plastic in them and it'll taste good with some butter and cream.

Anyone one else have some first hand experience with some high end cookware?? I kinda need to buy something pretty soon. You can only do so much with a microwave and a glass cup.

I know you hate All-Clad, but the pans themselves aside from the handles are awesome--I can cook bacon in our 10" skillet and then pretty much just wipe off the grease and baked on bits. I'm also happy with the Cuisinart (!) pan we have.

You know I can't resist the metro threads.

I don't care about having everything match.

I don't know. It depends on what you cook. I don't think you can beat the French-made, enamel-on-cast-iron Le Creuset stuff, so I'd buy as much of that in as many shapes and sizes as I could.

And I think that nonstick frying pans are a disposable item. So, I just buy cheaper versions (usually the Farberware Millennium) every couple years rather than spend $200 on one and pretend its going to last forever.

Which leaves you with stockpots, saucepans and skillets-in-which-to-develop-frond. I don't think stockpots are that big a deal; I settled on American-made Vollrath. It might have rivets, but that stuff is awesome.

Seriously, how often do you use saucepans and how many do you need? Just fork over the money for a few of the Mauviel Copper or Demeyere ones.

We got lucky (20 years ago) and bought a set of All-Clad clone stuff at Costco. Still have it.

Overall - honestly - I think you can make too much of cookware. It's the chef and the technique that matter. I'm pretty sure most of the stuff I see at restaurant supply houses is of much lower quality than the products you're looking at.

Do you have NG or propane?

Yeah Mike, that does sound a bit weird, but it'd be a good way to start a diet. I get turned off when I hear "high end"(i.e., high priced)about anything, and Cuisinart's multiclad stuff is plenty good enough for me(the rivets aren't really that big a deal to clean around). Consider a set like this, made in France, not China.

We got the same thing a year or two ago and love it. Like Ken said, cleanup is easy. I was stumped by some discoloration until my wife told me about Bar Keepers Friend.

About the same time, we also got some ceramic over cast iron stuff from the local TJ Maxx - forget the brand, but it was a good deal. No more eating Teflon chips.

I just can't get past those stupid handles Ken, but I know the All-Clad stuff is top notch. They really need to change their handles.

Tom - the voice of reason once again. My cook top is propane. The next home I build will more than likely have an induction cook top, for no other reason than clean up. Gas is nice, but they are a PITA to keep clean.

Thanks John. I had no idea Cuisinart made anything anywhere but China. Good find.

I also stumbled onto another choice. Apparently, Demeyere makes a line of cookware for Sur La Table. Slightly lower price than their top tier line. I might try a couple of them... http://www.surlatable.com/category/cat450426/Demeyere?cleanSession=true&pCat=CAT-5779

C'mon, Mike, I've only burned myself badly on those handles twice, three times!

define "badly"

Yeah, Lefty. Tell us.

Not very badly. Hurt a lot. Basically, once I grabbed the handle in the oven with my bare hands without thinking about it, another couple of times I was wearing an oven mitt which didn't cover enough of my arm and the superlong handle burned it.

Michael

This is the set of SS cook that i bought

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Ano...95/product.html

It isn't ridiculously priced and is good quality.. I would say "near" to what All-clad is. The Sur la table stuff is nice as well, i have a couple pieces from them also. For the money, i think the set i got from overstock is one of the best values. The handel's are riveted on, which you said you would rather not have. However, i have never had an issue cleaning them they don't take any more time to clean than my other cookware.. Actually in some regards SS is easier.. If something gets baked on.. you can just use some SS buffing compound and it "magically" disappears. The handles are also big enough that they feel good in ones hands.

I have had the above cookware for 7 years now, and they are still in very good condition. I think for the price i got a heck of a deal... While they are admittedly not quite as good as all-clad, i would say they are 80-90% of the quality of all-clad, at a MUCH lower price point...

I keep reading the title and thinking of stuff like this: http://alexkap.com/node/1

20 years ago, there was a huge difference between the cheap and expensive ss cookware. Not so now. I have had an inexpensive Meyer set for 7 years now and it is waaaay better than the expensive Italian stuff we got as a wedding gift 25 years ago.

I would also suggest that cookware technology has moved beyond ss. I've had a Greenpan ceramic coated aluminum frying pan for a year now. This stuff is tough, heats much more quickly than the expensive ss/aluminum stuff, heats very evenly and cleans better than any of the other no stick stuff. It also handles much higher temperatures than any other no stick type.

When I need more pots or pans, I will go to Greenpan. They have expensive and cheap options. For the ones I have seen, the difference seems to be a plastic vs stainless handle. The pots and pans themselves are the same.

The Paderno Classic Series have welded handles. We have some 20+ year old pots that still in great shape.

Padernos are solid pots.
Nice no drip lip edge for pouring liquids.
Solid base of aluminum for heat transfer.
Until they eventually get pitted over time, they are very smooth on the surface making it no stick with a bit of oil or butter.

Started in Canada out on the island.
https://paderno.com/can/corporate.php

Another good point.
Don't buy Teflon coated items.
Any halogenated compound i've seen over the years in manufacturing comes back to haunt humans in about 10 to 20.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene

Cool link Chess. I did not know Paderno was Canadian.

I'm telling you guys, with the new ceramic no stick coatings, there is no reason to ever go near teflon again. I still think they make a good replacement for ss as well.

I checked out the Paderno. Not too sure about the handles. Are they comfortable enough??

My obsession with rivets (not) may have to be put aside. Welded handles appears to be a bit of a novelty feature that not very many offer. I'm also wondering just how robust the welds are too. They look like they are spot welded. They definately are not welded with filler metal.

I know I'd prefer an edge for pouring, more so than no rivets. We tend to cook larger portions when we do cook, so we have a few left over's during the week. We don't have much time in the evenings, so we usually just cook on the weekends. After buying a pot with a rolled edge for pouring, I now know that is an important feature.

I'm deliberating between the Mauviel M'cook S/S line and the Demeyere Industry 5 line that Sur la Table sells. I was about ready to buy Sur la Table's one line of SS cookware but they don't have rolled edges.
I'm also thinking I probably do not want shiny SS. I'm betting it's hard to keep clean and scratches easier than a brushed SS would.

I have some non-stick pans, but after using SS, I prefer it over non-stick. It's probably just how I cook (mostly wrong), but it seams to me that SS sears meat better.

If taste were the only consideration, I'd stick with good ol' cast iron. I love the way food tastes cooked in cast iron, but I just don't have the patience to deal with it. I've tried and tried, but it's a pain to clean and store. And it's heavy as hell.

What a PITA this is.... I spend less time picking out AV gear than this.

Have a good amount of all-clad (3-ply) and love it. Handle angle identical to all the other cookware we have, so not an issue here. The key to making it semi-non-stick is to heat the pan, THEN put the oil on and cook at a slightly lower temp than before the oil went in.

Another vote for Barkeeps - great stuff - removes all discoloration.
We buy a set of teflon non-stick at Sam's (No Costco yet, but coming soon!) every other year about the time when the teflon flakes start to show up.

We have Paderno as well. The annual factory sale here was a regular event for us until we had all we needed. Our first ones were wedding gifts 17 years ago and those items are still as good as new.

Very good heat transfer. We were used to cheaper pots before that and had to get used to the fact that you need not (nor should you) turn the heat up as high. For a couple of days we were disappointed as we mistakenly though they were bad for sticking but we quickly realized it was our fault. Once we stopped turning the burners to Max all the time, they were great.

Scott, I'm always afraid I'll warp the pan if i do that. Hearing that someone else does makes me more comfortable.

I'm not talking red hot or anything close, but 400-450F for sure.

We have Lagostina SS cookware and they have no rivets. We have had them around twenty years and they still are my favorite.

You definitely have something for handles i see...

I can't say i've ever used any pot that had handles so comfortable that i could flip flapjacks all day long.
That being said, the Paderno have a slightly curved but otherwise flat metal handle. If carrying a pot of boiling water over to the sink for dumping as an example, i would say the Paderno are not the most comfortable.
Maybe, 7 out of 10?


The Paderno handles won't break.
I saw a show once on "how that's made" where they had the Paderno pots.
The welds are tested at pretty high strengths.


The Paderno have an amazing edge for this. Best i've seen.



We have a few.
Use them a few times a month, but not daily. Too heavy and cleaning is more of a pain.

I use my cast iron pretty much weekly. Cleaning is no problem at all if they're properly seasoned and you have a scrubby pad.

We don't scrub ours.
Just wipe it out with a damp dish rag. Lightly re-oil with a paper towel and veg oil.
No rust. Blackens over time.
The last pan i bought was pre-seasoned so already pretty black. We don't' have to do much oiling with it after a wiping out.
The same process applies for our wok. It was not pre-seasoned though so we have to oil it more or it does rust around some edges.

Note that stainless steel DOES rust. It is a common misconception that it doesn't.
Stainless steel doesn't STAIN (very easily).
That being said, some grades of SS rust faster than others.
Aluminum doesn't rust.
Many SS pots have an aluminum or chromium oxide finish (i.e. a nonrusting metal blend; also good for heat transfer), but it is hard to tell exactly what the mix and blends are such that some pots could rust under simple conditions (like our wok which is SS but not oxide coated) yet others do not (like our Paderno).

Ah, cast iron, it's like religion.

I normally just wipe it out, but if there's a little stuck on, a little elbow grease with an abrasive pad (no soap!) and then rinse it out, stick it on the stove on low heat, then after a little bit wipe it down with oil.

Most 400 series SS alloys have a carbon component. There is also a duplex SS which is a high bread alloy with a high carbon percentage used when the strength of carbon is needed, but corrosion resistance of SS is also needed.

So not ALL SS variants rust, only those with a carbon component in the brew.

And kids, never try to clean carbon steel with acid.

Just saying...

That seems like a lot of work. My parents use a huge, cast iron frying pan that they have owned for as long as I have memories. My Dad refuses to use anything else. He even heats cans of soup in it rather than using a pot. He says it heats it up quicker when it's spread across the wider, heated surface area. He has a point there but it still looks funny.

I am quiet sure they have never applied any oils to it that were not a result of bacon frying or butter for cooking. They also wash it with dish soap every time. I know nothing about curing pots so I must assume that it is just yet another miracle of bacon.

Heh. I never have good luck doing bacon in the cast iron, I always end up with a bunch of crumble that stick to the bottom. I'll use bacon grease in my cast iron any day of the week, though.

The only metals that do not oxidize (Rust) are platinum and gold. All other metals do oxidize, including Aluminum... Stainless steel has a VERY low oxidation coefficient. I tried to find a graph of the SS corrosion coefficient; however, i couldn't... The SS graph looks like the graph of a cube root. Under normal conditions, it will develop a thin layer a oxidation, and stop oxidizing. This layer of oxidization does not look like rust.. Chromium, is one of the elements that are used to create stainless steel....

If you would like to take the time to read the below article it has a lot of good information in it.

http://www.apv.com/pdf/catalogs/apv_corrosion_handbook_1035_01_08_2008_us.pdf

Ken, get one of these..
http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-890731/Le-Creuset-Flame-Cast-Iron-Skillet

I have a different Sur la Table cast iron pans.. They are quite expensive, but worth every freaking penny....

Don't confuse rust with oxidation.
Rust is a laymen term for metals, typically with iron content, that fall apart (become oxide dust) following the oxidation process.
Some metals as you correctly mention, gain a layer of surface oxidation but that layer then protects the underlying metal from further exposure to oxygen. This process is not "rusting" as the term is used.

Ya, and good example of oxidation without rust is copper. Turns a nice shade of green. Aluminum that has been in the elements for a while is a real bitch to weld. That crap leaches out no matter how much you grind it down to get out of the oxidized layer.

Next on the Axiom Metallurgy Corner - Practical conductivity differences between gold, silver and copper.

Just relax and let it dissolve under your tungsten.

Sounds like a science experiment to me. Mark. Buy some acid and report back. Don't forget to wear a helmet though. Safety first...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

You didn't tell me to wear safety glasses!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Since we're now in chemistry class, it can be noted that "oxidation" doesn't necessarily involve a reaction with oxygen, although that's how it originally got that name. It's actually the loss of electrons from the oxidized atom to the other "reduced" atom, which may be oxygen, but also others such as chlorine.

Copper when oxidized by oxygen shows the colors exhibited by progressively older pennies, from the reddish-brown cuprous oxide(Cu(2)O)to the almost black cupric oxide(CuO). A greenish color on copper is the result of oxidation by chlorine to the chloride in the presence of moisture.

And to think, i was trying to keep it simple..... *Face palm*

Our resident chemist lawyer does try to educate us whenever possible. I, for one, appreciate the effort.

Don't forget accountant Peter....

I swear, the evidence continues to mount that JohnK is actually John Hodgman, The Daily Show's "Resident Expert" and author of More Information Than You Require.