The only major difference i can see that would draw me towards the more expensive 'manufactured' materials is they don't need to be re-sealed every so often. However, with a highly polished surface, and the use of soap, i'm not concerned about the harboring of bacteria more so than the potential for stains. That is far more a marketing ploy than a reality that anyone got sick from using stone countertops.
I'm hoping for real world opinions from those who have owned granite countertops for awhile. Any issues with sealing or not sealing? Stains ever a problem?
We put in Caesarstone 'Quartz' in our kitchen & 3 bathrooms over the past couple of years. We did a full back splash ($$$!) in the kitchen with it as well. Ours was a new colour 2 years ago called '4255 Creme Brulee' & we were the first to have it done locally. It is a light cream colour with slight mottling that goes well with our new real Natural Cherry Cabinets. It is not too busy as many of the designs are & lighter colours like ours don't show kitchen 'dirt' & 'water marks' like dark colours seem to. The finish is slightly shiny but not satin. See 3 pics of it here, although it looks more dramatic & classy in real life:
Absolutely no issues of any kind - so far. Like all of those types of counter top materials, they don't come cheap & we bought a ton of it. Amazingly, the few seams that there are are virtually invisible. Most people would never see them in our installation...
I wouldn't expect alot of issues really from either granite or the 'quartz' countertops unless a person left some liquid sitting for a prolonged period (much like the coffee rings that Peter described). However, knowing that granite could be perfectly fine even unsealed and is $15/sq ft cheaper, and is a natural material, is very tempting.
I came across what seems to be one of the few unbiased reports on granite counters. After reading through to the end, it seems i would have to convince the granite supplier to give me a chunk of the selected material for testing before i would make a decision. http://www.forresidentialpros.com/article/10348240/a-look-at-the-most-common-myths-about-granite After all, i do love chemistry...
My wife watches Holmes the renovator guy on HG TV. She said that he recommends quartz for durability so that's the way that we went.
We have never had a stain nor a scratch or blemish in over 2 years - it is really tough whereas granite is more prone to damage, or so I've heard.
Nice colour you've picked - it will hide crumbs, etc, well. If you look at the backsplash in their gallery pics, ours goes right up to the bottom of the cabinets & right up to the ceiling behind our stove where the vent hangs. I believe that it was 1 thickness less than the counter top but not the thinnest due to fragility problems of moving big pieces during the transport & install process...
My counter tops are granite. Black, with big flakes of mica. I also have an area that is stainless steel (which is why I picked the slab with mica flakes in it). I guess it’s been 14 years or thereabouts since I built the place. Damn, time has slipped on by….
I really don’t know what folks are yacking about when they mention that granite needs to be resealed. When was it sealed in the first place? It was polished at the processing facility, but sealed?? I have used a variety of cleaners / polishes, and even one that was called…..wait for it…. SEALER! Well of them pretty much suck. They leave milky residue, or make it look dull, or are just snake oil. What I have found that works best, is a 50/50 blend of tap water and vinegar. Cleans it and leaves a very nice shine. I rarely do that however, cause it’s a PITA. So, I use a “granite cleaner” made by DuPont. Works OK, leaves a nice shine, and it claims to be a sealer as well. But with respect to “sealer”, phooey, hogwash, blah.
It has held up nicely. I have one area that does have some very fine scratches and that’s my fault. I don’t remember how I put them there, but I think alcohol was involved….
Just remember, granite is a shiny polished rock. It’s hard, but you can chip or fracture it if you are being stupid. I don’t know how in the world you could ever stain it.
If you do go with granite, it needs to be supported with a pretty stout sheet of plywood over the cabinets. You do not want the support to flex, even if you are walking on it (and that can happen).
I think I might play around with concrete next time. I’ve seen some pretty attractive counters lately made with concrete. I’m also going to have a food prep area that will be an end grain wood/butcher block construction, with a hole in it that dumps to a compose type collection bin. I saw this on a cooking show, Michael Simmons’s Supers. Way cool. Not sure if you can find that show on youtube or not, but it is worth a look.
My wife watches Holmes the renovator guy on HG TV. She said that he recommends quartz for durability so that's the way that we went.
We have never had a stain nor a scratch or blemish in over 2 years - it is really tough whereas granite is more prone to damage, or so I've heard.
This is where i try to eliminate what people have heard vs. what they've experienced. More often than not, you will hear about the problems and complaints more than the good. Granite is extremely hard material but like any stone, it may have a run which could crack under stress. If hit with a steel pot, yes it could chip again depending on whether that spot has a weak run. But, how often does this really happen? That is the basis for my question re: granite. It should be noted that even the 'quartz' counters can take damage from such an incident.
I really don’t know what folks are yacking about when they mention that granite needs to be resealed. When was it sealed in the first place? It was polished at the processing facility, but sealed?? I have used a variety of cleaners / polishes, and even one that was called…..wait for it…. SEALER! Well of them pretty much suck. They leave milky residue, or make it look dull, or are just snake oil. What I have found that works best, is a 50/50 blend of tap water and vinegar. Cleans it and leaves a very nice shine. I rarely do that however, cause it’s a PITA. So, I use a “granite cleaner” made by DuPont. Works OK, leaves a nice shine, and it claims to be a sealer as well. But with respect to “sealer”, phooey, hogwash, blah.
All stone is porous. When polished, there are still micro sized holes in between the mineral crystals that if linked, could even go down all the way through the stone. Every piece of stone is different (e.g. the end of a granite run vs the middle of that same mineral vein) and every type of stone is different (e.g. marble vs granite vs limestone). Composition is a huge factor in the resilience of a stone counter. Some which have higher quantities of say calcium, will be more likely to be affected by acid etching (e.g. leaving lemon juice on the counter for some period before wiping up). Just google some images of "granite stains" and you will the most common have to do with grease and acid etch (i think the wine stain appear over exaggerated). The idea of a sealer is to fill in those micro holes but as i've read, some stone counters don't need it at all.
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It has held up nicely. I have one area that does have some very fine scratches and that’s my fault. I don’t remember how I put them there, but I think alcohol was involved….
And this will happen with any counter. I've seen scratches on everything from stone to Corian and quartz. Nothing is impervious.
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Just remember, granite is a shiny polished rock. It’s hard, but you can chip or fracture it if you are being stupid. I don’t know how in the world you could ever stain it.
A dark counter such as yours may also hide some stains. It is possible you have something but just cannot see it.
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If you do go with granite, it needs to be supported with a pretty stout sheet of plywood over the cabinets. You do not want the support to flex, even if you are walking on it (and that can happen).
I won't be installing it and with any counter we get, i'll be sure to have a warranty on it longer than one or two years or i won't bother with that company.
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I think I might play around with concrete next time. I’ve seen some pretty attractive counters lately made with concrete. I’m also going to have a food prep area that will be an end grain wood/butcher block construction, with a hole in it that dumps to a compose type collection bin.
Concrete is also something we considered and that DOES need to be sealed! Concrete is actually quite a highly reactive material but it does make for some interesting counters. Very expensive though; far more than quartz the last i checked.
Our kitchen 'island' has a single slab measuring 73" X 39" with a 12" overhang to accommodate a couple of high bar chairs. Instead of using 'L' braces to support the overhang, they installed 3 heavy steel plates into 3 slots that were routered into the top of the cabinet work. Completely invisible & strong.
We have friends that had concrete counter tops in their 'mansion' because they were all the rage about a decade ago.
We didn't like the looks of it at all - looked to me like a DIY job to me. It didn't prove to be durable either. Unless concrete installations are better today, I would never go that way...
In the US, most countertop stone comes from Brazil. Even "Vermont" soapstone, which hasn't existed in Vermont for a very long time, comes from Brazil.
You know how much the original 7 x 10' slab must have weighed, right? How did it get to your house? Do you know how HUGE the carbon footprint is on stone transport; truck to truck to truck to ship to truck to truck to truck?
Also, no one ever tests stone counter top material for radon. Some of it emits it at higher than allowed "living space" levels.
Chess! You're not gonna tell me that climate change is a myth, are "ye?"
So, your LEED choices are--- local, or manmade, or both.
The entire future of the planet hangs on the balance of your decision.
Nope. I would have to ask each and every company i might consider. I do suspect we have local granite quarries along the edge of the Cambrian Shield at the east end of the province though. Some companies are located in that area. Limestone is also big in the province so this goes back to my potential concern about calcium content.
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You know how much the original 7 x 10' slab must have weighed, right? How did it get to your house? Do you know how HUGE the carbon footprint is on stone transport; truck to truck to truck to ship to truck to truck to truck?
We have cheap melamine counters at the moment (great use of hydrocarbons but admittedly they are thin and last forever). I'm not concerned about carbon footprint as we won't be buying anything we can't get in this country. This is Canada after all. We have plenty of good rock.
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Also, no one ever tests stone counter top material for radon. Some of it emits it at higher than allowed "living space" levels.
This is highly improbable unless the rock had higher than average trace uranium to start. Oddly enough, radon is a somewhat unknown problem here in Manitoba. They do mine uranium in Saskatchewan so we're in the general territory to have above average U concentrations in the soil.
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Chess! You're not gonna tell me that climate change is a myth, are "ye?"
I thought a wrote a paper on that already. Maybe i just read one.
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So, your LEED choices are--- local, or manmade, or both. The entire future of the planet hangs on the balance of your decision.
Don't get me started on carbon footprint and the hydrocarbon based resins they use in manufactured quartz. And for the love of Pete take away my soapbox before i get started on how many publishers use popular keywords like "LEED" now as a way to sell printed magazines. Save the trees Bob, save the trees!
Of course they use a product that they sell and then later on their own website talk about how today's modern sealers last 10-15 YEARS with just one application. (The "they" that I am talking about is: these guys )
Then again, they have this chart on their website too (keep in mind that they promote granite as THE best material).
So it looks like the people that are promoting granite like quartz just as much.
Have I helped you at all yet? No? Darn....
I like the look of granite, but at the same time the uniform surface (smooth) is nice with the quartz. The granite, like all natural stone IS porous, and porous areas will be more difficult to truly disinfect. Not saying that they can't be, but heck, I can't hardly get my wife or kids to take 10 seconds to clean a surface, let alone disinfect it. That is where quartz is nice. It is ground up bits of rock (including granite) that is mixed with a resin type material to make a sealed, and usually perfectly smooth surface without pores. That means less for the nasty germs to penetrate in to. But sometimes I find that the quartz looks TOO uniform in color... Perfectly blended and mixed by a machine that it loses the character that granite offers.
Both are great products. My parents have granite, my in-laws have granite, heck, we would probably go granite if given the choice, but we would have to be a little more diligent with letting the cleaner soak in long enough to disinfect better, but that should be teachable.
My advice, which you can toss out with today's trash and I wouldn't be upset, would be to get what you think LOOKS good. If it looks the way you want, then you will adjust to whatever you need to in order to have the look. If you go with the one that you find more "functional" or "cheapest" but not your first choice by looks, you will be reminded of that every time to look at the kitchen, or have to use the counters for something.
Both are great products. My parents have granite, my in-laws have granite, heck, we would probably go granite if given the choice, but we would have to be a little more diligent with letting the cleaner soak in long enough to disinfect better, but that should be teachable.
All good points and things i've considered but they continue to roll around in my head and will continue to do so until the very day we finally make a decision (probably in a few weeks).
Honestly, bacteria harbouring is not a concern unless you have a more heavily porous stone (like limestone) and prep some bloody chicken before making yourself a sandwich without thoroughly cleaning the surface. The body can actually take on small quantities of bacteria without harm. A certain dose is required for a person to get sick. If you haven't been sick by using say a wood cutting board in the past, you won't get sick from prepping food on a granite surface cleaned normally with a bit of soapy water. The odds are very low. However, the odds of having a coloured liquid (e.g. wine) or a viscous liquid (e.g. cooking oil) seep into the pores and dry in place leaving that 'under the surface' residue providing discolouration is my only real concern. I can so see us buying the granite and within a month after having done all this research and maybe even sealing the counter, that we would still end up with a damn stain.
Considering all your relatives who have granite, have they ever had any staining issues? Do they 'seal' their granite? Frequency if at all?
Incidentally, i have been looking at the stone sealants and some are based on alkylalkoxysilanes (carbon-silicon compounds). This type of research actually supports the concept of sealants as beneficial in reducing liquid penetration on a stone surface:
A good torture test of staining is 'pickled beet juice' or any berry juice. We've had both on the quartz for some period & they have never left a mark. One day I saw a sizeable dry blue mark & determined that it came from the dye of a blue document folder that had been put on some water on the island top. Came off no problem. Often coffee or tea spills sit overnight. There is just no penetrating that I've ever seen.
Our installers left us a bottle of 'Supreme Surface - Granite & Quartz Cleaner & Conditioner' that 'Cleans, Polishes & Protects'.
My wife uses it very occasionally. The 8.5 Oz spray bottle looks to be about 90% full after 2+ years...
I know! Why not a nicely cut and polished chunk of the Burgess Shale?
The brag factor would be huge. (I'll bet it'd look pretty cool, too!)
All kidding aside, Chess, if you've written on climate change, is it published somewhere we can access it? I would very much like to read it, and I'll bet I'm not alone here. You go!
Thanks for all the opinions. We'll be considering budget and whether paying more is worth it or not but mostly taking a hard look at what we want aesthetically for the counters. I suppose if we find granite has too much variation then we'll tend towards the manufactured quartz instead. If we really want to dumb down the price we could go with Corian too. We installed that in my mother's house and so far it has been pretty solid stuff. Haven't seen any colours in that lineup to our liking though.
My vote is for Granite. You just can't match the look of it with the manufactured stuff although they're getting better(at more $$).
On a more important note, I also got a couple of Guiness glasses for Christmas!! trouble is, since I got them, I've tried Cobblestone Stout from Mill St Brewery which puts Guiness to shame. Some Mill St glasses would make a nice Christmas present next year...just sayin'.
My vote is for Granite. You just can't match the look of it with the manufactured stuff although they're getting better(at more $$).
On a more important note, I also got a couple of Guiness glasses for Christmas!! trouble is, since I got them, I've tried Cobblestone Stout from Mill St Brewery which puts Guiness to shame. Some Mill St glasses would make a nice Christmas present next year...just sayin'.
Mark? anyone?
Guiness, for whatever reason, just ain't the same anywhere other than actually in the UK. Not any difference if you drink it in London or Dublin, but once it heads across the pond, something happens to it and it just isn't the same. In the UK, it's wonderful. But, when you're in the UK, there's so many great friggin bears to try, Guiness takes a back seat.
Guinness is brewed to dozens of recipes in dozens of countries all over the world. It's not even intended to be the same here as in Ireland. It's the Bose of beer.
I like the Guiness Draught we get locally, it's just when you compare it to the Cobblestone, it's very watery and less flavourful despite the similar taste. I wouldn't pass on it though. Also, not that it matters, the nitrogen charge in the Mill St is attached to the bottom of the can vs the floating ping pong ball in the Guiness. If you like your beer at room temp though, I've heard the bottom charge can be messy when you open the can...not a problem for me since I refrigerate mine.
Guinness is brewed to dozens of recipes in dozens of countries all over the world. It's not even intended to be the same here as in Ireland. It's the Bose of beer.
Guinness is brewed to dozens of recipes in dozens of countries all over the world. It's not even intended to be the same here as in Ireland. It's the Bose of beer.
This is likely true for alot of beers. Friend of mine worked for one of the big Canadian brewers decades back. He once told me that Canadian would taste like Blue in BC, or something to that effect. There is apparent 'adjusting' in the brewing to be competitive in delivering a beer preferred by local palates.
Either way, i think i'll be drinking ours with a real granite counter (about 90% decided now).
Unfortunately, no. I don't dislike Guinness; my point was that their corporate structure isn't really even TRYING to make the product that we get here taste exactly the same as the one you'd get in a pub in the UK. Their overwhelming, modern worldwide success is as much a function of marketing prowess as it is brewing competence.
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Either way, i think i'll be drinking ours with a real granite counter (about 90% decided now).
VERY GOOD! That's my preference, but only because I just really like the idea of slices of rocks as a countertop.
Hijacking your thread because my kitchen countertop is one of the last major decisions I need to make. Anyone have any experience with the newfangled Dekton Ultra Compact surfaces? I'm still probably going to end up with laminate to keep costs down and not be so paranoid about damaging it, but it's always fun to discuss the options. My dad thinks I should pay the extra and get real stone of some kind, so it wouldn't be impossible to be talked into it.
So who's the happiest with their countertop, and how many years into it are you?
Yeah, I'm thinking I'll go laminate this time around, and when it comes time to replace it, I imagine the options for Dekton will have increased by a lot, and hopefully the price will have come down.
Yeah, I'm thinking I'll go laminate this time around, and when it comes time to replace it, I imagine the options for Dekton will have increased by a lot, and hopefully the price will have come down.
That surface looks about as expensive as the manufactured quartz would be, based on the description of how it is made. Laminate is certainly ok and durable, but as much as some ppl say they have great patterns today, all i saw at the local stores was junk. Nothing looked at all 'real' and most patterns were hideous, almost as if stores don't carry simple whites anymore for the sake of being trendy.
The plus with countertops is they can be replaced fairly easily with minor disruption to the rest of the room so if you decide in the future to get real stone or something else, switching out the melamine wouldn't be difficult and would only take a few hours for installation. However, why spend money now and spend money again later? Just buy what you prefer, now, once.
What i find kind of odd is how many of these companies will not give you a sample to take home so you can compared and see it in your actual house. I'm not saying you would keep the sample, but just to even get a sample from a company to which you've committed to buying the product is like pulling teeth. You would think that with all the cutouts from kitchen sinks they would have tons of samples available for customers.
However, why spend money now and spend money again later? Just buy what you prefer, now, once.
Just because the options for this new kind of surface are pretty limited, and, like I said, expensive ($92/sq ft. installed at Home Depot). The marble-looking Aura I thought looked nice on the website didn't look all that impressive in person. They had a black one I would have certainly considered at a lower price point, but it seems wrong to pay $92/sq ft. for a plain black, no matter how durable. In any case, I ended up going with a laminate. There was a darker pattern I liked more than the others, at $27/sq ft. installed. Right at $1k for the amount of countertop and backsplash I need. It would have been over $4k for the Dekton.
But you're right about none of the laminate samples having a real wow factor. I think part of it, for me at least, is it's hard for me to visualize a full countertop from the tiny samples available. Hopefully I made an okay choice. I'll revisit the higher-end materials down the line once this starts looking ugly. In the meantime, all you guys with nicer counters can point and laugh. I'm just glad I finally pulled the trigger on something. I need to be able to use my kitchen!
I've found a local granite dealer in the GTA who imports pre-fab granite counter tops from China. Most of the actual stone originates in S. America ect but gets processed into 8 to 9 ft X 2 ft countertop sections with either a bullnose edge or 1/8 rad. Any further fabbing such as sink cutting, faucet drilling or installing is either done by a local fabricator or the consumer. We've already done our upstairs kitchen with some of their fancier granite and saved near $2G or 50% over your typical HD or Lowes. In fact, they have many different 'levels' of granite, from very basic to fancy to exotic. The cheapest finished 2 x 8 ft granite slabs they had, complete with finished edge were $150Can...less than $5 a sq ft(not installed) up to about $25 per sq ft for the most exotic stone. I'll be picking up 3 slabs and doing my own fab on our bar/kitchenette (part of the downstairs reno I'm doing).
I just finished installing a new dishwasher and also planning on replacing my counter top, sink, and electric stove top sometime soon. Current counter top is a cheap one from back in the 1950's. A laminate or whatever. Any recommendations for something fairly cheap, not too heavy and easy to cut and install?
