Like Want & Need

Posted by: MatManhasgone

Like Want & Need - 08/08/17 06:59 PM

One of the hardest parts in life is being able to separate the Like's and Want's from the Need's. Sadly in life, we are bombarded with all these likes and wants that tend to eat up quite a bit of time and a whole load of money. But how do you justify or work to make a case for a like into a want and then a need?

I am stuck with a conundrum. I am not sure if I have a like, want or a need. I have an old mountain bike. I use to ride a whole lot when I was younger. it was fun and I would go out 2-3 times a day. Even with a busy work schedule, i could fit in a real early morning ride before driving in to work, then another one when I got back. Weekends I would get out whenever possible.

Then I got into a major accident that seriously injured me, and wrote off my bike. It was replaced by the insurance company, but I never really got to ride it as much as I use to because of the injuries and then the court case where they were trying to prove that I didn't have cognitive injuries because I could still ride a bike.

So now my bike is 13 years old. it still works for the most part. Well, it is full suspension mountain bike, but the suspension is shot. The wheels are 26" and getting harder to find parts for. The gears of mostly warn out and need replacing along with a new chain, but again due to age, getting parts that will fit to fix is getting harder and harder. But in a sense it still works.

I would really like a new Advanced XC carbon fibre bike. I know it costs way too much to really justify. (ie 5-6k). Knowing that I do want to replace the old bike with something newer and comparable in the sense of getting something around the same spec level as what I got 13 years ago but just newer. This helps bring the price down to the 2.5-3k mark. This will give me a much better bike that what I have now.

The need part is a bit harder. As I have said, the bike well, sort of mostly works if you are willing to look past the problems. As the gears and chain is worn, when I ride it hard (as there is no other way to ride) the chain skips and sometimes just falls off. Not great when you are going up a hill, or peddling through a corner. The shocks are shot for me as they can no longer support my weight (by their design) and tend to bob when I ride losing speed and efficiency. The tires and tubes need to be replaced along with the grips and saddle. (old age dried out and cracking). So buying replacement parts to bring it back to good condition working would set me back 1.5k to make a frankenbike. But in a different look, the bike sort of still works, so it's not like my bike that was written off because it was bent after getting run over by a mini van.

So it is at the level like when you get 10 years into a car and have to decide is it worth spending constant money in break fix or just give in and spend the money to buy a new car.

Is it enough to say it makes little sense to keep on trying to keep an old bike that has had a good life and pay the piper to get something better. It really is an incremental cost to get a much better bike. But then it's the slippery slope from the Want to the Like knowing the two sides that as time goes on new technology will keep on moving forward, and the side of inflation were the same spec level bike won't cost the same next year and the years going forward as what you are paying today. For example, how much did the M80 v1 speakers cost compared to the newer v4 of today. Sure the newer speaker is better, but it still costs quite a bit more in $ than what you paid 15 years ago.
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/08/17 07:22 PM

LOL... I just came up from the basement staring at my old road bike trying to get motivated to finish fixing it up. I have had it since the late 70s, but it's one of the very few bikes I have seen with a frame big enough to fit me. The tires are shot and I'm a lot less skinny than I was back then so first step is replacing them with the fattest tires I can find that still fit the frame.

My first though would be to replace tires & not much else as a first step and ride that around until you *know* what to do for a new bike. Is the suspension shot in terms of just riding it around casually on the street, or shot in terms of taking it on rough roads ?

My understanding is that carbon fiber is a bit of a different world from a maintenance POV so that might be an argument for something more comparable to what you had 13 years ago but newer.
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/08/17 07:48 PM

From the side of what condition it is in: the bike can ride around on the street and down the casual bike trail. I have ridden with my wife and daughter and it works fine to that capacity.

But to be totally honest, that sort of riding rather bores the hell out of me. it is like listening to 64kb MP3 on an old ipod with $20 ear buds. yes you get the sound and it can be a distraction, but it doesn't give me the same level of satisfaction like listening to FLAC on my LFR1100's at 150watts.

I prefer to ride in a technical offroad single track with ruts, roots, rocks, drops, steep climbs, fallen trees and you must keep your wits about you. The bike when new could do that sort of thing, but I have since gained 80lbs that I am still trying to loose. So I now mostly ride for a vigorous 45-90 min and leave with a smile. before I would be going for a good 2-3 hours.
Posted by: brendo

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/08/17 08:21 PM

If you were to fix up your older one with say Shimano Deore Or SLX parts you could save quite a bit, they're marginally heavier than say XT or the XTR carbons.
And the trickle down tech over the last say 5 years is quite substantial to say that tech of the 90s.

If you went Shimano Deore or SLX 3X10 you could probably get a whole new drive train for say $400 including Cranks and brakes and all. Compared to $1200 and up for the same XT or XTR components to which the difference in weight would only be around half a pound for the entire set.

If you'd like to start riding heavy DH {Whistler or North Shore}
Maybe Ont. winter. you'll be best with at least SLX for durability. Can take a lot of muck.

I ride everyday. Rain or shine.

Picked up a Kona29er last year totally love it.
If you look at more aluminum you can find life time frame warranties with really light weights { My Kona 29er is 20LBS. and aluminum} . Where the same frame in carbon has 1 or three years warranty. And really little weight difference maybe 2 or 3 pounds to the frame.
Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/09/17 12:43 AM

I've always been a "know it when I see it" kind of guy...
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/09/17 11:47 AM

Right now the bike that I have is in the old LX and XT comp set. It's an old Trek Liquid 30 bike.

What you were expressing Brendo is to effectively strip down the bike to the frame and start over again. The sad part is that the suspension is probably the most expensive part of a new bike setup. The old Fox forks that I have are no longer made and parts are not available for them. I would also for my weight and type of riding that I do need to move from the older spring damper setup to the more reliable and easier to setup air oil design. The cost of a new front fork can easily be $600-900 unless I want to press my luck and order unknown from Tiwan. For my frame I will also need to get a new rear shock, but that is limited by the frame design and such. I am guessing it will be in the $3-400 range. I know that looking at replacing the whole group set with a 1x11 slx setup is about $590.

What is not mentioned in any of these numbers is who is also doing the work. I am sure that many people could save a bundle by purchasing replacement automotive parts and doing the work themselves. But it would involve learning how to and tools etc to get the job done. When you buy a bike, you have paid for someone to assemble it for you and that comes in with the price that you have to pay.

Sadly, I don't think there is any easy answer to the problem.
Posted by: Adrian

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/09/17 01:36 PM

I think I'd go for a new bike, myself. Maybe last years model(of whatever) to save some money. It sounds like a lot of work, time and money to fix up your old bike and my guess is, a newer bike will have benefitted from a dozen or more years of advancements in design vs your old bike. If you're patient, it's getting later in the season, stores are starting to think about moving their remaining product. Also, never been to it, but the fall bike show in Toronto might have some good deals.
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/09/17 02:16 PM

I know what you are saying Adian.

There is the side that you might get a good deal at a bike show. Wether you are going to get the exact bike that you'd like is unknown. I have never gone to the fall sell off so I can't say.

Right now my local bike shop has a Giant Anthem 2 that I think would fit me perfectly. This is the 2017 model and they are willing to take $350 off the list price. I am told that markup is not that large with some bikes and they will not budge for hell or high water from that price.

The 2018 model will be out soon ($400 more expensive list), and it is effectively the exact same bike except it comes with different tires that are tubeless ready, and the 2018 SLX group is 11-46 vs this years that is 11-42. I did take the bike for a ride earlier in the year and I had a problem with the front crank being 30 tooth, makes the top speed a bit slow and at the largest rear gears, I can flip myself backwards as my leg strength to gear ratio is just too much. With the 2018 version it just makes that problem even worse.

I personally can't figure out why anyone would need a 42 tooth gear in the back, let alone a 46. It's not like you'd even be climbing a steep enough face that you could use it, and you'd be riding so slow, balance would be an issue as you need forward momentum to stay upright.
Posted by: brendo

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/09/17 07:27 PM

Sorry on my earlier post Matt I did mean doing the work your self.

When I've purchased my bikes I usually maintain them quite a bit myself. Which usually ends up in upgrades, If you already have good basic tools aside from Crank pullers or Bottom bracket tool and brake bleed kits.

Metric Allen Keys from 1.5mm up to 12mm, Phillips screw driver is all you really need most of the time.
Posted by: brendo

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/09/17 07:43 PM

The Sram top 1 x 12{50tooth} is supposed to give the same ratio on gears as 2 or 3 by 10 or 11.
personally I would take a 2x before a 1x as the fronts are all 28 to 36 teeth and the 2x gives both and can take 50 tooth rear as well.

Your shocks are another story it might be easy replace seals new fluid reset. or full overhaul not to expensive either.
Posted by: Cohesion

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/09/17 09:25 PM

How about that, a bike thread on Axiom's forums! I had to chime in as I have a fat bike myself.

Matt, it sounds like you really want a new bike but don't really need it! Me too! Either way, keep a lookout for minivans, and have fun out there!
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/10/17 08:38 AM

You are right.. I guess I am looking for a reason to justify buying a new bike.. Come on Brendo.. work with me to justify it, and I'll help out when you want more speakers and a new amp/receiver. wink

I personally have been wanting for over 10 years now a workable 1x design as I always found the granny front ring to be a complete waste of time. The 1x gives me now a selection of 11 unique usable gears without complexity, where a 2x design just offers maybe 13 unique and 8 effectively duplicate gears. The limiting factor to me is not finding an easy enough gear to climb a hill. that is the only thing a 2x or 3x brought to the table. For me it's the other end of the spectrum. finding a large enough front crank ring to give me speed on smallest rear gear.

As for my shocks. They are a spring damper design. I have a set of the standard spring/damper that came with the bike and the most heaviest ones. the damper pads have hardened and the spring has stress issues. They sadly just don't make them any more and trying to custom build my own just doesn't make sense. I'd be stuck buying a new front fork regardless what I do.

The standard spring still is in pretty good condition (but cannot handle my 275lbs weight). I am trying to convince my daughter who rarely rides a bike ever to consider using my old trek and give her bike to my wife. I get the new bike and I am happy. But sadly I doubt that wish will come true.
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/10/17 08:40 AM

And you have actual mountains being in the west cost. We have small bumps that we call hills by comparison, but you need to make do with what you have
Posted by: brendo

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/10/17 11:03 PM

I think it's a great idea Matt
Your Heart and body are worth it.

Here in Vancouver people even go to the lengths of selling their cars for the latest greatest bikes

If you really want to feed the fire and your close enough to a Mountain Equipment Co-op, you should check out their Intense line up.
They come with the latest greatest parts.

Sadly even lousy forks are expensive.
Posted by: Cohesion

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/12/17 03:43 PM

FWIW, I tend to agree that rebuilding the old bike with new and upgraded parts simply isn't worth it, especially considering how much more parts cost on their own as opposed to when all put together in a complete bike! Also, I'd like to get a 1x11 setup myself as I currently use my 2x10 setup mostly as 1x10 anyway. Then again, being in Ontario also, I just have to deal with the 'small bumps' that we call hills as opposed to the large mountains that pass themselves off as hills on the west coast!

Have you looked into buying a new bike from an online direct seller? Fezzari appears to offer a fairly good value for money with very good quality. They're sort of a bike selling equivalent to Axiom in that way!
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/13/17 05:46 PM

I did take a look at Fezzari. The kicker is that the CAD is just too far off right now that any saving that you might have gotten are eaten up with the exchange rate. They do sell some exceptional bikes. I will keep my eye out with them
Posted by: bridgman

Re: Like Want & Need - 08/13/17 05:53 PM

Maybe that's the answer right there...

... fix up the basics like tires for now and wait for the Canadian dollar to go back up before you buy that Advanced XC carbon fibre bike smile
Posted by: Troy_32

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/09/17 04:26 PM

Did you make a decision yet on the bike?
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/09/17 06:53 PM

Decided that I simply cannot afford to buy a bike so I have to put up with what I have.

The other thought that I had was to put the money that I have saved up towards alcohol and just drown my sorrows that I can't get a new bike that I really really really would like. (but sadly still not fall into the need category)
Posted by: Gr8_White_North

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/09/17 10:45 PM

I feel your pain , i want a new converter for my truck, instead i bought a new washer today with money i may never have. ):
Posted by: Troy_32

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/11/17 12:05 PM

Sounds like the right decision for now. Getting out and riding is the most important part, regardless of your rig. I know people that get out and shred on old hardtails in the same group as folks with 10K superbikes. Everyone has fun.

My advice would be to only spend money on your old bike to keep it safely working until you can justify a new one. Adding a new fork or rear shock would be expensive and I don't think you would get the proportionate benefit.

I've gone from a 2001 Cannondale F-400 (stolen in Kingston, ON) to a 2011 Rocky Mountain Altitude, to a 2015 DaVinci Troy Carbon. While I've had fun on every one, the Troy and similar new bikes is/are absolutely amazing to ride. Even between '11 and '15 bikes changed substantially in terms of geometry, and wheel size. Upgrading parts on your old bike wouldn't help how dated the frame, stem, bar width, brakes or wheel size are.

You can get a decent deal on a used bike, I see many 1 or 2 year old carbon bikes that were $5K - $7K going for 1.5K - 2.5K. If you're patient you can find ones that have not been ridden hard. From my personal experience on the DaVinci frames, which have a lifetime warranty, they can handle a tonne of abuse. Here is an example where many expected the frame would have snapped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2aqKyuAwfA

If you're not into racing or keeping up with 20 year olds, you don't need a carbon bike with a fancy drive train. A newer aluminum frame bike with base model components would still be an incredible upgrade from your existing. Brakes would be the only exception that I would personally recommend spending extra money on.

Lots of good info on these topics and used bikes for sale on www.pinkbike.com
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/13/17 06:44 PM

I couldn't help myself. I stopped by one of my LBS and ended up taking a look at the Cannondale Cujo 1. They had the 2017 model but just not in my size of fame. But it looked to be quite a nice looking bike and not much more expensive than the Norco.

Then I went online and the 2018 are listed. That takes all that last years model had, but put on a better sized rim that won't weigh quite so much, and is better sized for 2.8" tires. Added on a dropper seat and upped to shimano SLX/XT group set. Now I am sold.
Posted by: MatManhasgone

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/14/17 08:41 PM

And then I took the 2017 for a ride and didn't think much to it. The bike sort of felt dead like I couldn't feel connected to what i was riding on. I did try a 29er and that felt much better but I am not yet convinced. Back to the drawing board and not knowing what I really want.
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/16/17 10:30 PM

Well if this is the thread to air one's desires inevitably and heartlessly killed by the reality of financial limitations, then crap, i'm in.

Let's see, visited Axiom over the July long weekend (again thank you Ian, very gracious and always fun!).
Was there to audition the LFR series speakers to replace the M60 Tis in the media room. Want them for the larger soundstage to help with the left/right pull of a placement limitation with the M60s although realistically this is a small thing, not noticeable all the time (say, 10-15% improvement possibly if i were to put a number to it).
Can't get them at this time though (had to settle for a used Axiom Air for now) because oh, let's see, in the course of the past 12 months we've needed to replace (or have done):
  • Furnace
  • AC
  • Windows (some)
  • TV (one died so main floor unit moved upstairs and new main floor Sony was bought...not OLED as i was hoping to get, prices haven't come down enough, tech hasn't progressed enough)
  • Honda CRV (old one got written off when it was rear ended)
  • Wine cellar AC
  • Fireplace chimney
  • Needed radon mitigation
  • Dog needs surgery (upcoming this week)

Know i'm missing a few things at least including several appliance part replacements (bought the parts myself and did the repair but damn, $50 for a stupid washing machine plastic handle???). Since the list got so long i've lost track.
Essentially over $50k spent (or will be) in the last 12 months in NEEDED expenses (small exception for the new tv which is a luxury item still).
The damn LFRs will have to wait.

Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/17/17 01:34 AM

Lol
Wine cellar AC
Congrats
Lol
Posted by: chesseroo

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/17/17 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By brwsaw
Lol
Wine cellar AC
Congrats
Lol

Well we've had it for 12 years now, can't just up and let the wine go south now can we?
It was actually one of the least expensive replacements in the list, though i did have to do some masonry and carpentry to fix up the wall as the new unit was smaller than the previous one.


Posted by: brwsaw

Re: Like Want & Need - 09/17/17 11:20 PM

Lol its all good.
Wine doesn't hang around too long around here.