OK, so I'm looking over a Best Buy Preferred customer discount mailing I got for this weekend, and checking out the "exclusions" on the back of the coupon.

As is typical, it says that Bose is excluded. No surprise there. But it also says it excludes: Martin Logan, REL, Primare, Sonus Faber, Tivoli, Vienna Acoustics, etc….

Huh? Since when are these brands even available at Best Buy? Do they have a subsidiary I'm not familiar with? It almost sounds like Tweeter……

I have never seen those brands at the BB around here (Il.).

Not in Colorado either.

Best Buy and Magnolia Hi-Fi have merged. Some Best Buy locations have a Magnolia right in the store. My local BB replaced their "listening room" (read: Huge waste of floor space) with an in-store Magnolia. They carry the good stuff.

They are probably testing certain markets. Even if they had them here, I would probably spend my cash at a quality based company.

Merged is an understatement, but yeah, more of Mag Hifi's product is or will be seen in BB stores in the Washington, Oregon, and Califorinia area's. Also, other than being "owned" by BB, Mag Hifi is about as high quality based as you get.

This just reminded me of a funny experience I had at BB a few weeks ago when an employee in the A/V department told a customer that she had to buy the "big" speakers, not satellite's, in order to listen to 6ch Stereo on her Yammie. I literally laughed out loud. Sorry for the hijack, just thought I'd share.

Thanks for sharing that is pretty funny .

I was in a shop a couple months ago and I was chit-chatting with the salesman and he said he replaced his Paradigms with Klipsch because it sounded better for HT. I just walked away...

Heh heh! Well, this knucklehead flat out lied to the lady by saying the Yammie automatically switched the speakers to large when listening to 6ch stereo, and in a couple other surround modes, in order to try and sell the larger, more expensive speakers. My wife went and told the woman the salesman was FOS.

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Heh heh! Well, this knucklehead flat out lied to the lady by saying the Yammie automatically switched the speakers to large when listening to 6ch stereo, and in a couple other surround modes, in order to try and sell the larger, more expensive speakers. My wife went and told the woman the salesman was FOS.

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Actually I think you may have misinterpreted the salesman because he is somewhat correct. Yamaha receiver's only have analog to digital converter's (ADCs) on the two front channels so when using 6-channel input, bass management cannot be performed; please feel free and test it out for yourself. (To my knowledge only Harman Kardon receivers have ADCs on all channels.) If bass management is not enabled, the receiver essentially sets all speakers to large because it cannot use its digital-only crossover. Harman Kardon receivers do not do this because the ADCs on all channels let the digital crossovers work.

While what the salesman said is not true in 6-channel stereo, it is true while using the 6-channel input. That is the only surround mode that would switch all channels to large, but the fact that there is one proves that he's not entirely "FOS," as your wife said.

DJ, are you backhandedly telling me that when i put a dvd-a in, and use 6 channel input on my rxv1300, the speakers are all automatically set to large?

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DJ, are you backhandedly telling me that when i put a dvd-a in, and use 6 channel input on my rxv1300, the speakers are all automatically set to large?

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Essentially, yes. To your receiver all speakers are "large" when 6-channel input is enabled (even though the setting doesn't technically go to large.) Think of it this way:

What exactly does setting speakers to large vs. small do? The sole purpose of this setting is to engage bass management. The bass management system in all modern receivers is done digitally. Receivers cannot process the data given to them when the data is analog. They must first convert the signal to the digital domain, because the data has to be digital for the receiver to do ANY processing (including bass management). Harman Kardon, to my knowledge, is the only receiver manufacturer that uses ADCs on all channels. This enables bass management on the 6-channel input since the data is converted to digital and the crossover circuitry is allowed to work. With almost all other receivers, only the front two channels are given ADCs so you can enable all of the processing options such as Dolby ProLogic IIx, dts:Neo6, or even bass management. There may be a very small minority of non-Harman Kardon receivers out there that have ADCs on all channels, but I don't recall seeing any - especially not from Yamaha (although I haven't looked at the RX-Z9 specs yet).

What I said does not mean that bass management cannot be done, however. It just means it has to be done prior to amplifier input. This is where a device such as the analog Outlaw ICBM comes in. It solves the problem that almost all receivers have, and it does it all in the analog domain, so you do not have to worry about up-sampling and down-sampling the signal. (I would personally rather have it done digitally, however.) Additionally, most DVD-A and SACD players offer some sort of bass management feature, built-in. This essentially takes the place of the one that is built in to your receiver.

In summary, while your receiver treats all speakers as "large" during 6-channel input, they can have bass management done to them if it is done prior to reaching the amplifier.

thanks for the reply. just learned something new. i do know it sounds great to me eventhough my mits player has no bass management mentions.
dan

Well, in theory, it shold give you the best performance because it has absolutely no processing done on it. 6-Channel input is basically an easy way to do "Direct Stereo" on the Yamaha models that do not offer it (pretty much all yamaha models minus a few such as the RX-Z9).

I am a firm believer that, contrary to THX and Dolby specifications, the ideal situation for multi-channel audio, the ideal situation is 6 identical speakers that are all capable of a full frequency response and a nice subwoofer that is dedicated to its discrete channel. Sure it will be a LOT more work to calibrate the speakers with the room so that you do not get deep bass problems, but I believe it is worth it in the end. That being said, I use small speakers for my center and rear channels because I do not have the space for 5 M60 towers. I have, however, heard a 6 channel music setup with 5 identical speakers and a beefy subwoofer (Velodyne HGS-18). It sounded incredible in the huge room it was in, though the fact that the room was fairly large made it a bit easier to address room mode problems.

DJ, i use 2 60's, 1 vp150, 2qs8's, and ep350. aix's christmas dvd-a sounds great in 6 channel.
dan

From what I have heard on this forum, the VP 150 can produce some pretty deep bass for a speaker its size. I'd also imagine that the QS8s arent that far off since they are typically wall-mounted (which would reinforce their bass output). Obviously that 350 sub can produce the lower octaves nicely.

I'd definitely think that you have a setup that can cause a lot of "system-envy" from other people. I hope to get a VP100 or 150 soon for my system... Maybe this Christmas after I buy myself a new laptop if I still have cash left over.

Not to try and change the topic too much, but do you have any suggestions on what my first DVD-A should be?
I would want something that is extremely well mastered and will make me appreciate the added resolution and additional channels.
I have the capability to play DVD-A disks, but I have yet to purchase one - heh. I do like Christmas music, and I think I may try to look for that Aix disk =].

DJ, go to aixrecords.com. there you will find the christmas cd. also try lawrence juber, guitor noir.
dan

While I would hardly call the mfg'ers you mention "Boutique Brands", these are not available at the Best Buys I have visited - either in Canada or the US.

The equipment they carry is squarely aimed at mass market segments. As such, the "quality" (for lack of a better term) of customer service will vary greatly.

No misinterpretation, I have been in the A/V retail business for years, and I know exactly what the guy was trying to do. I guess you just had to be there.

In that case, what a jerk .