I am torn between the Epic 80-600 ht package and the Rocket RS 1000 ht package. I keep seeing all these posts with references to speakers being bright, laid back, harsh, etc... My ht room has ceramic tile floors and half of the wall is covered in tile as well. I have a large area rug and 2 sofas, but all of the talk about the different sound qualities has me worried and confused. Any clarification would be great.
Thanks
I say 'what' you listen too will influence your results in that room more than the differences between the two brands you are considering. Axiom's may be more forward then the Rocket's but I think you will find not by a significant margin.
I haven't heard the Rockets myself but from owners comments it sounds as if the difference between the Rocket 1000 and the Axiom 80s is less than, say, between the Rocket 750s and either the 1000s or the M80s.
What makes it all so hard is that you are facing a wide range of good speaker suppliers, each of which "sounds perfect" to the lead designer, or at least as close to perfect as budget will permit. As a result, they do all sound a bit different.
Most of the differences seem to be related to the 3-6 Khz area. Many British speakers tone this frequency range down a bit (the so-called "BBC dip"), while most other speakers tend to be much flatter in this range.
For Home Theater use, there seems to be much less debate. Flat is good, and Axioms are pretty darned flat. For music there are far more debates, and far more passionate arguments in favour of one response curve over another.
The big complicating factor is that a lot of music is mixed for "typical consumer sound systems" ranging from car radios and boom boxes up to cheap stereos, and those recordings won't sound as good on a really flat speaker system. I think this is where most of the "bright" claims come from.
Really good recordings pretty much sound good on everything, and the Axioms will tend to show a bit more "detail" than most on a good recording (a Good Thing).
The main thing to keep in mind when reading reviews and listening to speakers is that this whole "bright" thing is an upper midrange issue, not treble. You can read reviews of speakers with "excellent treble" and they can still be dull in the midrange.
Some of the Paradigm Monitor line used to be like that -- really nice speakers with very good tweeters but kind of lifeless in the upper midrange, although I think this has been improved recently.
The room is a factor in the sense that a "too live" room will also emphasize the upper midrange, but keep in mind that if your room is too live your imaging is going to tend to suck and you're going to want to fix that anyways -- it doesn't take all that much to make a difference -- and once you fix the "too live" nature then the impact on speaker selection goes away.
It's good that you are thinking about the room up front, though. I am still convinced that the room characteristics make as much difference as the speakers when you are auditioning. It does get confusing... but keep in mind that you can't go *very* wrong no matter which speakers you get.
I read this paragraph 4 times and I think I could paraphrase it if I had to . . .
Quote:
I haven't heard the Rockets myself but from owners comments it sounds as if the difference between the Rocket 1000 and the Axiom 80s is less than, say, between the Rocket 750s and either the 1000s or the M80s.
. . .but when I read this, I thought of one word instantly,
The main thing to keep in mind when reading reviews and listening to speakers is that this whole "bright" thing is an upper midrange issue, not treble. You can read reviews of speakers with "excellent treble" and they can still be dull in the midrange.
. . . and that word is BINGO.
I, myself, questioned this lively vs dull issue when I purchased my speaker system. But, from having my 'lively' Axioms for some time, I have discovered that duller speakers now bore me, and I would have a hard time going back to that.
>>>> I, myself, questioned this lively vs dull issue when I purchased my speaker system. But, from having my 'lively' Axioms for some time, I have discovered that duller speakers now bore me, and I would have a hard time going back to that.
Exact same scenario for me Bruce, I also believe what some may consider as bright or harsh is nothing more than a very detailed speaker producing nothing more than the the sound that was put in to it. After having my Axioms for quite some time now I find myself being very critical of the way music is produced and mixed, and man when the good recording come along ... wow!
BTW, very nice explanation John.
Mr. Ostwalt, don't be to concerned about all these people that tell you a speaker is bright/warm/harsh, etc...I almost didn't buy Axioms a year ago because to many people on AVS told me they are Bright and Harsh, this proved to be false.
Everyone has a different taste in sound. To me Axioms are very detailed and faithfully recreate the recording of the music/movie. I've never heard Rockets, but it is my understanding, they are very similar to Axioms in regards to sound. I think when people talk about something sounding bright, it has more to do with their room environment and/or the recording they are listening to, versus the speakers.
Your best bet would be to check the audition thread to see if there is someone in your area that you can listen to Axioms. I think Rocket also has an audition thread.
Good Luck
Thanks for the responses. Sirquack, that is the same position I am in now. I was settled on Axiom and then I started seeing all these posts on Bright, harsh...etc. I see that Neb is listed as having the same system the Epic 80 600 system. I guess I will see about contacting him, I live close to Charlotte. At this point the only thing I can think of is a pair of Sony car speakers I use to have. They were a 4 way speaker and to me they sounded what I would call "clearer" than other speakers. I am replacing a JBL ht package that is about 10-12 years old. So that is all I have to compare at this point.
Thanks again
It has been a few months since he has posted, so hopefully he will get your PM, if you send him one. Otherwise, someone else might chime in that is not on the list, or Amie at Axiom may have some help finding you an audition.
Good luck man.