I don't see in your post which sub you are considering?

the Axiom EP350 v2 if I stay all Axiom. If I go the hidden way then i was looking at the Boston Acoustics SUB10F. It's designed to hide in between the wall studs.

Poodleman is using the larger EP500 for his setup, but I wonder if that would be too large in that space.

Welcome Joe,

I think your choices will be fine but for me, I would want something a little bigger for the mains. Just personal pref.

If I may, what will the rest of the basement be used for? The reason I ask, is for the layout. The way it is set up now, the stairs come out right into the back of the theatre area. To reach ANY other part of the basement, you would walk right past people watching the movie. This would drive me insane. (My 3 kids can't stay in one area for more than 5 minutes)

If it were me, I would turn everything 90 degrees and have the screen on the wall adjacent the furnace room. That way when people come downstairs it's into an open area that won't disturb the movie watchers.

Then, I would then put stairs directly off the landing into the laundry room. (The stairs would form a "T" at the bottom) This way, you could turn left to do laundry and not disturb ANYONE in the bsmt.

As far as the sub goes, why not put it under the stairs with a grill cut-out? Or even in the furnace room?

That is one huge space for your sub (since there is no wall to the right). I'd go for the EP500 if you can swing it- it's one heck of a great subwoofer.

i think the speakers you have chosen are just fine, minus the sub, you have a LOT of air space that you are going to fill, and a 350 will have a hard time filling all that room, the first thing that came to my mind, is you could isolate the area with your sump and the hot water heater from your movie area, that would be a good idea anyhow, to isolate those noises from your theater area. probably just a drywall would be fine and not cost too much and would give you the possiblity to decorate your HT area the way you want.


drywall your ht area, and insulate it, and you could probably go with the speakers you chose, but i would say 500/600... call axiom and see what they have to say...

Also, try using the home theatre wizard, on the main home page. It looks like you have lots of cubic space there... 25X13X8 = 2600 cubic feet of space. That might help making the decision...and the wizard asks you all kinds of questions. Try it out...maybe it will help, on your decision.

There is one school of thought which says "size the subwoofer for the ENTIRE area (including the rest of the open area) and size the rest of the speakers for the portion of the room you will be using as an HT.

If that is correct (and I think it is) then you sure can't go too big on the subwoofer in that room. Alternatively, plan to put the sub fairly close to your seating area, maybe behind the couch or something.

EDIT -- another vote for putting the sub under the stairs. The further between the sub and the listening position, the more the sub has to "fill the entire area" which seems to be about 7000 cubic feet.

Let's see. Mr. Wizard says...

New....

I’m no designer by any means, and I’m just now pulling wires and about to install the flooring in my small HT room. That being said, I’ve already learned a few things that I plan to do differently when I build the next house and actually design a HT into the home design (I’m working with what was going to be a spare bedroom). One thing I’ve definitely learned, is this is not a ‘poor man’s’ hobby. You can poor boy it now, but eventually you will end up spending a whole lot more than what you first thought you would. So start out doing it right. You can always upgrade equipment, but walls and ceilings are a different story. You’ll want to make sure that the LFE’s don’t wander around the home where they are not wanted. That means a lot of insulation, wall board, acoustical sealant, solid core doors, chased ductwork, lighting, conduit, etc, etc…..

Firstly, I’m not too sure about having a HT that isn’t somewhat encapsulated. I know that others have HT’s in their homes that are open to large areas, but I think you loose a lot of acoustical / reflective surfaces when you do this. If it were me, I’d at least build partition walls as needed to close the HT area off. You will also have much better light control by doing so. That would be my first change to your layout. The second is what was already mentioned, move the stairs so they are non intrusive to the HT area.

My minimum dimensions would be 14’ wide by 20’ deep. I’ve got 12’ X 16’, and it’s simply too small. With a screen, you ideally want it about 32” off the floor so you are not forced to look up, but if your speakers are taller than that, then you have to raise the screen or limit its size. By going 14’ wide, you would be able to go with just about any tower speaker out there and still have room for a nice 100” wide screen. This brings up another aspect to consider……screen size. You should plan to build / buy a screen with a 2.35 aspect ratio, even if you don’t plan to use that ratio today. Tomorrow you may change your mind and for the time being, you just mask off the extra width.

Now the room depth. How many folks do you wish to sit around and watch movies?? If you want enough room for more than four, then you’ll need two rows of seats with the back row elevated, which leads to other considerations…..like room egress. You don’t want folks stepping up on a platform in the dark that they can’t clearly see. So you need to think about this, including accent lights at the floor level.

You should also be thinking about what projector to buy. Some have very small windows for mounting distance from the screen. You don’t want to zoom too much or all you get is blown up pixels. Plus, if you do go with a constant height set up in the future, you want a long throw projector that will work with an anamorphic, horizontal stretch lens. Oh, then there’s the video processing piece. Are you planning on using a stand alone video processor, or just use the projector or DVD player?? More to think about there…..

For sound, you want the tweeters to be at about ear level. Are you sure you want to see permanently mounted speakers a foot or two off the floor? I think that may look funky. If you raise them too high, you will be very disappointed with how they perform, although they are performing as designed. This is one good thing about towers. The tweeters are already at the right height they need to be. I don’t have any, nor heard the architectural series, so I can’t comment on them much. I do have some M22’s though, and to me, they don’t hold a candle to the M80’s. Even with my EP600 they still seamed to be lacking for me. So I have doubts that the W22’s will be enough for you. Maybe for a couple weeks or months, but after you get used to them, I suspect you’ll be wishing you had more speaker. For that room, I’d go with some M60’s and two VP150’s with four QS8’s or two QS8’s and a set of M3’s for backs. I’d go with one EP600 to start with, and possibly add another down the road.

I’ve become inclined to think that money is wasted on high end AVR’s that have high wattage output. The processing side just gets out dated too quick. I think one should get a good, but inexpensive receiver with all the bells and whistles you are looking for, and supplement the mains and center with outboard amps. This way, as technology changes (and it’s sure to do so), all you need to buy to keep up is the processor. You can get killer deals on the HK 635 right now and it has about everything you could want/need but HDMI switching. But if you go with an external video processor, many have HDMI switching so that could be mute point.

I don’t check the boards all that often so if you have additional questions, shoot me a PM. I get emailed when I get a PM.

Good luck, study, study, study, buy your toys, and most of all, have fun……..

Another thing to consider is how far back you plan to sit. Generally for a 16:9 (1.78) screen you want to be about 1.5 times back the screen width. It appears your screen is not all that big, so if you planning on sitting back at least as far as the projector, you might find the screen looks to small from that distance.

i sit about 5 feet from my wall that i use, and my projector is about 6 maybe 7 feet total from the wall, and im using 16:9 format, its great, huge picture compaired to where im sitting, almost as good as when i used my 135" screen....



mdrew brings up a lot of good points, but in the end everything you said pretty much leads to this guy spending way more money than he is probably planning on spending. while you have valid points, i think the best thing that could be taken from your post, is set the room up correctly, with the construction aspect. if you get the room solid, no matter what equiptment you have in there currently it will sound the best it possibly can, and if you decide to spend more money on other stuff it will be just that much better.


Also, you havent said now much you plan on modifying your HT area, that would be the first decision that I would make if I were you, if you decide you don't want to do any drywall, or modify your basement at all. Then you should probably get bigger speakers, but if you don't have a problem doing some drywall, and setting your HT area up the best you can afford, then the smaller speakers will most likely work just fine.



oh yeah, btw i hate all you people that get to have all the fun and make your own dedicated HT area....(not really, just jellous)

Mr. 'Build It Man' Michael hits on some very good points as does everybody else.

I can only add (along with everybody else) in a your 60/40 movie/music environment that I'd most definitely opt for more subwoofer, neither the 500 or the 600 would be close to overkill in the area you have. You have a great foundation for what can become a very nice H/T setup and it looks as though you are planning everything well, good luck.

First thing I need to say is WOW!! I didn't think I would get half of the responces that I got, but thanks.

Second, Sorry for the late responce...the wife and I went to the home to see it's progress today and the sheetrockers were there...messy, messy, messy...spent the afternoon cleaning up the mess..need to purchase a few masks as the dust was amazing. (but the Sears Shop-Vac I got works great) (Off topic I know...sorry)

Third, I am going to try to answer/respond to everyone at one time.

Stairs/Water/Sewer/HVAC/Electric/ Etc....The home has already been set and the stairs, etc. have already been installed. So moving the arangement is not possible....HOWEVER I like the idea about building or sectioning off the HT area from the rest of the space. I am thinking a half-wall to the right of the HT area with a space about 3ft near the steps would provide a walk way between areas and give me a place for possibly a 2nd EP350 Sub.

The area near the Sump Pump will eventually be a bar and the area between the sump pump/bar and the HT area will be for the Pool Table. Again, the area is intended for entertaining and keeping things open is hot topic for me and my wife. We want people to come over, watch a nice movie but be able to move around and still be part of the fun.

The steps that are there represent the front of the home. The foyer, is direcly above the Washer/Dryer area. Above the area with the Screen is the kitchen, to the right of that would be the Breakfast nook and to the right of that(the area with the 20 foot space with the sump pump is the living room/fireplace. The space where the steps lead down to the basement is the dinning room.

Unfortunatly I can't move the walls for the steps, all I can do is section off the area with walls or half walls.

Someone brought up a good idea about moving the HT area 90 degrees...I will need to review the spaces again for that.

Yes, it appears either a second or larger sub would work for that area better then the one I looked at. Still makes me wonder about an in-wall unit(s). I will put more thought into the larger 500....question: what about 2 350's, one on the right and the other on the left side of the screen?

SIRQUACK: 100" Screen not all that large, thought it was a decent size image. I went to www.projectorcentral.com and they have a projector calc and from a distance of 12' 2" i would be able to project a 100" diag 16:9 screen on the wall...do you think this size screen is too small for that area?

Also, after looking over these responces you all might be right about the small W22 filling the area with enought "livable" sound to make the movie enjoyable. I is one big concern of mine that the from 3 speakers be large enough to fill the area but still be hidden. It looks that the space, as nice as it is, is larger then a piar of in/on-wall speakers can fill. I know this is going to sound a bit off the wall(no pun intended) what about using 2 sets of W22 on-wall speakers either next to each other or on top of each other to provide more of a musical experience? It seems that placing 2 sets on the front wall would/could hurt imaging/acoustics etc...again just and off the wall topic I place to you to ponder.

INTHEDECK: I did the Wizard at the beginning of my search and it recomended the Epic 60 500. I, at the time, was really looking to be "stealthy" with the installation and keep things off the floor. I am going to have to put more thought into the speaker type/placement then I originally thought I would have too. Seems floor standing is my only option (at least to acomplish what I want to)

DAKKON..."don't hate me because I'm beautiful" All I can say is I got lucky and had the opportunity to build my first home...just thought that I would do my best to put in everything I wanted and design into it everything someone who wanted to buy it from me later on would want in a home...(of course that ment spending more then I had originally wanted to) Looking back...don't think I would build again....just purchase someones elses "newer" home and move in...started building in Feb and we still are waiting, and waiting, and .... waiting. Maybe August.

Again thanks for all the input...and please...keep the ideas/recomendations comming.

(Funny, my wife didn't think getting a HT was all that special...but after being online and looking over these responces I think she is sold on the idea....now if i can get her to like the idea of a boat....um...maybe 30 years from now when the house is paid off.)

-Joe

Hey Joe,

I'm sure you'll be fine. I wasn't trying to say that you would not be able to display a 100" image from that throw distance, there would be many projectors capable. I was just trying to say the general rule of thumb for the first row seating is about 1.3 to 1.5 times the width of the screen. So, for a 100" 16:9 diag image, the width of the screen would be around 87". So 87 x 1.5 = 130" or 10.8ft. would be about the minimum you would want to be seating in the front row, which is way in front of where you are planning you surrounds. Also, if you get to far back, say you have a 2nd or 3rd row, or your 1st row is way back, the 100" image might start to look small.

I have a 2.35 10ft(120") wide constant height screen setup. The second row is about 16ft back, which is perfect for those wider aspect ratios. The front row at 13ft is great for 16:9 viewing using 51" x 91" or 104" diag.

So, I'm sure it will all work out. I'm more concerned about the open area to the right of the screen. It might be better to reverse your plan and put the screen back where your planning your rear speakers. That would be more private and more of a dedicated HT room. You could even paint the walls darker like I did.

>>(Off topic I know...sorry)

Around here "off topic" is a way of life, not a problem.

Sounds like this is going well. Realistically the best we can do is give you ideas to think about. There is no substitute for walking around the space, dragging boxes around to simulate furniture and drawing HT equipment and wiring diagrams on the wall before the drywall gets primed and you lose all your work

Geez, why didn't you post THAT picture when we were talking about your room response. Nice straight on shot -- I can measure the dimensions right off that one

>>> There is no substitute for walking around the space, dragging boxes around to simulate furniture and drawing HT equipment and wiring diagrams on the wall before the drywall gets primed and you lose all your work


And sometimes even the best laid out plans don't seem to go just right. Whenever building our room I predetermined speaker and subwoofer wall plate locations (aesthetics) by measuring and precisely marking the location of the TV, which set the location for the front speakers in turn using the equidistant idea set the location for the couch.

Whenever real life application came around I hadn't considered the couch being in the middle of a 60hz null so therefore the couch was moved back, the front speakers ended up being way wider and farther from the back wall and the subwoofer not being in the location previously planed ... so the wall plates are visible and speaker/subwoofer wires/cables are crossed which is exactly what I didn't want to do but I must say the sound is tremendous.

If I ever happened to build another dedicated room I would certainly *start* with room acoustics to get a general idea as to how they will effect various arrangements in the room.

"Whenever real life application came around I hadn't considered the couch being in the middle of a 60hz null so therefore the couch was moved back"

you did this by cralling around?



for ht, i think that the 22's would be fine, but if you plan on using them for music i think they would definatly not work, not enough volume.. and as far as placing 2 pair side by side, i would not do that either, get bigger speakers. also for place ment, in a HT its gona be dark so idealy you wouldnt be able to seem them very well anyway..


if you dont make the area "air tight" there is really no point in putting up a 1/2 wall.. just leave the area completly open for entertainment purposes...


good luck.

There may be some benefit from having a partial wall, in the sense that at least you will get more equivalent reflections from both side walls and that will get rid of the "unbalanced" feeling you can feel when one side has a wall and the other is open.

A half-height wall probably won't help as much as a half-width wall (ie open to walk through near the stairs but floor to ceiling near the screen and mains).

>>and as far as placing 2 pair side by side, i would not do that either, get bigger speakers.

Amen to that. Some people have built a carpet-covered "stage" to raise floorstanding speakers so that they are closer to "center of mass" of the screen -- that seems to look really nice as well.

Would it be too much of a hassle to move the lower stairs to land into the wash room? If so, then you could rotate the HT 180.

>>> you did this by cralling around?

Actually this was done using test tones and an SPL meter.

After looking at your basement dimensions a little closer; that would be the best solution. You’d have close to 13’ in width (and believe me, you will want every bit of this).

If you can convince your bride to move the traffic pattern through the laundry area, I’d close that wall completely off to the HT area. I’d then build a wall between the opposite exterior wall and the stair header with a doorway to the HT room all the way against that far wall. You could then put seating at 12’ and 16’ and still have room for HT egress behind the last row.

I’d then look at a good long throw projector (Sanyo Z4 might be a good pick) and mount it as far away from the screen as I could without using the zoom. By doing this you would have the option to install an anamorphic lens as you learn more about this hobby and get up to speed on constant height systems like Randy has. (they are supper trick and you'll want one if you ever see one in action)

With the fronts and center speakers tucked away in their own area away from traffic and side viewing, tower speakers then look as if they belong there. The need for the wall mounted speakers from an appearance perspective becomes a mute point.

On a side note, if it isn’t too late, I’d strongly suggest you reconsider where you’re placing your laundry room. Unless you have a chute / bell waiter system, carrying clothes up/down steps will get very old. I know from personal experience. I have a five level home and carrying them damn bags / baskets of cloths up / down stairs every frigging day is a pain.