Large or Small setting - Axiom Message Boards

Just wanted to verify a few assumtions I have. If the main fronts are floorstanders like the M60 or M80, they should be set as "large" in the receiver speaker setup right ? If that is the case, does the centre channel, like a VP150 also set as "large" ? or only the mains are large and everything else is "small" ? That would mean that surrounds would almost always be set as "small".

The idea being that physically small speakers are not capable of extended bottom range therefore the "small" setting applies a filter ie: 80hz and sends the frequencies below that filter to the Sub right ? So, the determination of this setting is based on how low the speakers frequency range extends ?

Just trying to figure out the "rule" for this particular setting.

Thanks,
Stephane

You have things, pretty much, correct. However, if your processor/receiver has a global fixed crossover frequency (one frequency crossover point for all speakers - probably 80Hz), I recommend setting all your speakers to "small," even the M60s.

If your processor/receiver has programmable crossover points, allowing you to select different crossover frequencies for each individual speaker, I'd still set all speakers to "small" but I'd experiment with lower crossover point for the Mains, and perhaps even higher ones for the surrounds.

The frequency you chose should be based on the +/- 3dB frequency of each speaker. For example, the +/- 3dB point of the M60s is 37 Hz. You could try a 60 Hz crossover, to see how that sounds to you. I think a 40 Hz crossover would be too low, but you could give it a try.

The VP150 has a +/- 3dB point of 50 Hz. A 60 Hz, crossover might work, 80 Hz would be fine.

The QS surrounds have a +/- dB point of 95 -100 Hz. You could probably get away with 80 Hz, but you might try 100 Hz to see if you prefer that.

I had a receiver with a global crossover point of 80Hz, and enjoyed the results just fine with M60s/VP150/QS8s. YMMV

Thanks Ajax,

The receiver in question is a Marantz SR8500 and it has 3 settings for the lowpass/ highpass filter that affects all speakers set to "small". 80hz, 110hz and 120hz.

Just so I understand, how do you relate the +/- 3db to an actuall frequency number ? for instance, if my mains are rated for 40hz, how do I calculate what + or - 3db is from that frequency ?

Thanks
Stephane

I think this is once again a personal preferance. I like my all my speakers set to large, as I find the dialogue for mens voices in movies a little too high and music sounds weak otherwise. I know the speakers don't reproduce clean sound this way and the speakers won't respond below their ratings very well if at all, but everything just sound fuller, richer to me. The bass in music is way better this way, fills the room more evenly. So I would suggest you try the settings one way then other for awhile and see which way you like it best.
BTW, my system is:
Denon1804
M22's Fronts
3QS8's for surrounds and rear
VP100 Center
Dbox David 250 sub

I leave all my speakers set to small, with an 80hz receiver crossover, and let the sub do the job it is intended to do...

Riker, because of a wicked bass null (node/mode?) in my room, I need to have the mains set to large to smooth out the bass response. This really only seems to be an issue for music. Movies are fine.

Thanks all for the replies, I guess the bottom line is experiment and see what sounds best for me in my room..

Steph

Since my EP350 keeps going into stand-by at low volumes, I have a 'special' setup until I get my EP500. All my speakers are set to small with an 80Hz crossover, but send the bass to both the front and sub. This way I still have most of the bass when only the mains are playing, but get the extra grunt and extension from the sub when it does kick in. It works pretty good, but would be better if the sub worked all the time (hence why I'm upgading).

As for a general rule, there isn't one (that I know of). I believe THX standards are 80Hz crossover for all channels, so start there and play around with it until it sounds good to you.

If you have THX certified speakers all around, then it is written that all should be set to small with an 80hz crossover, but I don't know many people with "thx certified" speakers and I don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be anyways. I have my system setup with everything as large for movies or music, and that seems to be alright for my setup, I just wanted to know if there was some "formula" that I did not know about.

Steph

You can find the +/- 3dB frequency in the specifications listed on the Axiom web page which is appropriate to the speaker in question.

For example, on the M60 web page, it says:

"Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz): 37 - 22kHz Graph"

Yes, it can be a matter of choice as whether to set the mains to "large" or "small," but here is what Axiom's Alan Lloft had to say in How to Get Boss Bass.

"Basically, any main, center-channel, or surround speaker using woofers smaller than 8 inches should be set to "Small." Now that's easy to remember!" (Or is that Alan simply quoting from the Sound & Vision disc?)

On the other hand, in Receiver and Subwoofer Crossover Setup, Alan says:

"With Axiom bookshelf or center-channel speakers, or any other bookshelf or moderate-size two-way tower (e.g., the M40ti), set them to "Small". While you are at it, set the surround speakers to "Small" as well. In this mode, the receiver will route all deep bass frequencies below 80 Hz to the subwoofer via the receiver’s rear-panel "Subwoofer Out" jack.

For Axiom’s larger tower speakers--the M80ti’s, M60ti’s, and M50ti’s--depending on the particulars of room size, start by selecting the "Large" setting on your receiver for the left and right main speakers, and "Small" for the center and surround channels. With these settings, and the subwoofer set to "On," most receivers will route full-range sound, including deep bass, to the main left and right speakers, and bass below 80 Hz to the "Sub Out" jack on the rear panel of the receiver. (Some rooms may benefit from smoother bass by getting deep bass from three room locations--the sub plus the main left and right speakers--rather than a single subwoofer.) If running your left and right fronts on "Large" produces too much bass output, change the settings for the mains to "Small." You can also experiment with crossover frequencies, raising the center-channel crossover frequency to 120 Hz if you find that results in smoother dialog sound with less coloration. But 80 Hz is a generally desirable crossover frequency in most applications."

So, there are varying opinions on which way to go. I found that, by setting my mains to "large," I had too much bass. YMMV

Thanks Jack, that was good information. I like the idea of mains large and the rest small, I'll try that one for sure. When I tried all set to small in one of the music mode on my preamp, my sub was going nuts, ie: loud bass output. The sound was pleasing on one hand but not sustainable so I went back to large mains and that gave me less overall bass output :-( but better overall sound.

Thanks again all for the valuable information.

Steph

Quote:

When I tried all set to small in one of the music mode on my preamp, my sub was going nuts, ie: loud bass output. The sound was pleasing on one hand but not sustainable so I went back to large mains and that gave me less overall bass output :-( but better overall sound.

What do you mean by 'pleasing but not sustainable'? As in cleaner, but too bassy? If so, you may just need to recalibrate your sub's trim/gain since its receiving more signal.

In my last post, I wasn't just referring to having all THX certified speakers, but that our 'regular' speakers may also use those options as a starting point. Then use your ears to fine tune if for your taste and room.