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Posted By: bigjim63 Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 02:09 PM
I'm finally going to get a HDTV, leaning toward a plasma. This means getting rid of existing wall unit and getting new furniture. I currently have M22's but the wife does not want to put them on stands. I suggested a tower and she seemed to bite. Our room is 14'x14' with an open back to the kitchen and an opening on the side to the living room. My question is M80 to large? I also want to upgrade my sub. Looking at the 500. Is this going to be to much for the room. I also need to find a credenza to hold all of my equipment, any suggestions?
Posted By: littleb Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 02:20 PM
Plasma TV, M22s to M80s and EP500. Man, when you upgrade, you don't fool around.
Posted By: packetloss Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 02:38 PM
They won't be too large, but for that size room m60's would be more than adequate. Also the m80's are a 4 ohm design so some receivers could have issues driving them.

As far as plasma goes, I recommend you look for a 1080p model. The pixel resolution should be 1920x1080. Pretty much all the 1080i and below models use 1366x768 resolution. If the budget allows, you might want to consider an LCD. The contrast ratios are significantly better than they used to be and you won't have to worry about burn in or the brightness fading over time.

I have 2 LCDs. One is 1366x768 (32" Syntax) and the other is 1920x1080 (46" Samsung) and for 1080i material - which is deinterlaced by the monitor since LCD,Plasma etc are progressive by nature - the picture is noticeably sharper on the 46".
Posted By: Screefer Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 02:41 PM
At least you won't have to worry about upgrading for a little while!!
Posted By: Hutzal Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 03:07 PM
>>They won't be too large, but for that size room m60's would be more than adequate.>>

mdrew on this board has M80s in a 14 x 16 room. I think his listening position is around 12 feet away and he said the M80s were really hard to set up and sound good when sitting so close.

Bottom line, unless your listening position is around 12 feet away or more from the M80s, they won't have enough space for a good sound.

Go with the M60s, its a better choice in your room size and they are 8ohm.
Posted By: bigjim63 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 03:21 PM
Santa was nice this year and left some good cash! I was looking at LCD for the TV as well are they up to 50-55" size? The M22 I currently have do a great job, maybe I will only go to the M60's. What about the sub? Is 500 to large should I only go to a 350?
Posted By: Ken.C Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 03:28 PM
Technically speaking, if a monitor has a 1366x768 resolution, it's not1080i, as 1080 (i or p) is a designation indicating vertical lines. 1080 <> 768... They may take a 1080i input, but they're scaling it.
Posted By: Hutzal Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 03:29 PM
>>The M22 I currently have do a great job, maybe I will only go to the M60's. What about the sub? Is 500 to large should I only go to a 350?>>

Have you considered wall mounting your M22s? You can get the Axiom wall brackets and just mount them on a stud. For your room size, if you get an EP500 sub it will produce clean low bass, lower and cleaner and more musical than the EP350.

If you can swing the M22s wall mounted, i would go with that option and pick up an EP500 sub, this will literally be more than enough for your room size.

If you can't wall mount your M22s, the M60s will be a fine choice.
Posted By: bigjim63 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 03:41 PM
Wall mounting is a great idea. I may still get the M60's and move the M22's to the basement.
Posted By: HomeDad Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 04:17 PM
If you can swing the 60's and the ep500 that's what I would do, they make a great combination and you won't look back. I also have both a plasma and a LCD TV, I prefer the plasma, the colors seem sharper and the viewing angles are great.
Posted By: bigjim63 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 05:25 PM
Looks like the speaker question is answered, thanks for all the input. Now the TV. The great debate Plasma vs. LCD. Since this is going in the family room with a lot of light, I thought plasma. I read many posts and it appears many of you like the Panny's. I was thinking about the 50 or 58" Panny. Is the Pioneer elite worth the money?
Posted By: packetloss Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 06:10 PM
Quote:

Looks like the speaker question is answered, thanks for all the input. Now the TV. The great debate Plasma vs. LCD. Since this is going in the family room with a lot of light, I thought plasma. I read many posts and it appears many of you like the Panny's. I was thinking about the 50 or 58" Panny. Is the Pioneer elite worth the money?




How bright is that room? Is it sunlight?

Generally, Plasma color richness will prevail in rooms with lower lighting, while LCDs will be better in brightly lit rooms due to their inherent anti-glare technology.

My Uncle has a 2 year old 42" Panasonic. I have a 46" 1080p Samsung LCD. The color on the Samsung is at least as good as the Panasonic. The picture is significantly sharper on the Samsung.

If your pouring $2000+ into a TV and plan on using it for a while, you really should get a 1080p set. I don't see any 50" 1080p Panasonic plasmas. I think their smallest 1080p model is their 65" model. Pioneer has some 1080p 50" models.

The contrast ratio on the Samsung and Sony LCDs is at 6000:1 whereas it's 10,000:1 on plasmas. Clearly Plasma has richer blacks but the gap is a lot closer than it used to be.
Posted By: Hutzal Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 06:34 PM
Quote:

Looks like the speaker question is answered, thanks for all the input. Now the TV. The great debate Plasma vs. LCD. Since this is going in the family room with a lot of light, I thought plasma. I read many posts and it appears many of you like the Panny's. I was thinking about the 50 or 58" Panny. Is the Pioneer elite worth the money?




I would either wait for SED Technology which will be debuting in 2008.

Or go for the new Plasma Technology coming from Pioneer this summer, I would at least wait for this new plasma tech.

"At the 2007 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Pioneer has dropped a big bomb. The company claims to have developed a new plasma display panel (PDP) technology that surpasses both LCD and SED regardless of lighting conditions.

What's even more amazing is the fact that Pioneer stated that equipment used to determine contrast ratio of displays "does not have great enough range to measure Pioneer’s new display" and for that reason the company has not yet provided a contrast ratio figure for this new PDP.

Another interesting fact is the product's target launch frame. Pioneer said that this new PDP technology was originally slated for launch in time for the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, just like Canon-Toshiba's SED, but now Pioneer has reviewed its schedule and it expects to have the new technology in the U.S. market this summer!

If all their claims end up to be true, plus the fact that the prices LCD televisions are going down very fast, SED could turn out to be a failure before it lauches."

Posted By: Lorenzo1000 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 06:48 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Looks like the speaker question is answered, thanks for all the input. Now the TV. The great debate Plasma vs. LCD. Since this is going in the family room with a lot of light, I thought plasma. I read many posts and it appears many of you like the Panny's. I was thinking about the 50 or 58" Panny. Is the Pioneer elite worth the money?




I would either wait for SED Technology which will be debuting in 2008.

Or go for the new Plasma Technology coming from Pioneer this summer, I would at least wait for this new plasma tech.

"At the 2007 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Pioneer has dropped a big bomb. The company claims to have developed a new plasma display panel (PDP) technology that surpasses both LCD and SED regardless of lighting conditions.

What's even more amazing is the fact that Pioneer stated that equipment used to determine contrast ratio of displays "does not have great enough range to measure Pioneer’s new display" and for that reason the company has not yet provided a contrast ratio figure for this new PDP.

Another interesting fact is the product's target launch frame. Pioneer said that this new PDP technology was originally slated for launch in time for the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games, just like Canon-Toshiba's SED, but now Pioneer has reviewed its schedule and it expects to have the new technology in the U.S. market this summer!

If all their claims end up to be true, plus the fact that the prices LCD televisions are going down very fast, SED could turn out to be a failure before it lauches."





Weird I was just reading this article about SED today. Seems like there's some question about SED and whether or not it will happen. SED
Posted By: Hutzal Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 06:57 PM
>>Weird I was just reading this article about SED today. Seems like there's some question about SED and whether or not it will happen.>>

Ya, its a shame really, I myself was really looking forward to SED simply because i like the clarity and black levels on high end CRTs, and SED is just that with a thin profile. If this new plasma technology is indeed going to trump SED, there will be no reason to buy an SED when it finally comes out, just like the article claims.

Thats really just too bad, SED is superior to plasma and LCD in every way.
Posted By: bigjim63 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 07:42 PM
This technology is becoming simular to PC's. As soon as you purchase it, it becomes "old". Patience is not one of my virtues. I finally convinced the wife to upgrade from our current analog Mitsubishi to HDTV and now you suggest to wait. Is summer time a realistic time frame? I can hold out a little longer if the technology is significantly better. This TV is going into the family room that has two windows on the west side of the room. I plan on getting room darkening blinds.
Posted By: Hutzal Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 07:51 PM
Quote:

This technology is becoming simular to PC's. As soon as you purchase it, it becomes "old". Patience is not one of my virtues. I finally convinced the wife to upgrade from our current analog Mitsubishi to HDTV and now you suggest to wait. Is summer time a realistic time frame? I can hold out a little longer if the technology is significantly better. This TV is going into the family room that has two windows on the west side of the room. I plan on getting room darkening blinds.




I don't know anything about plasmas, I know alot of projectors though I suggest going with what you want, if you want to bite now, you midaswell. The thing with technology is it is usually always delayed, if Pioneer says summer 2007, it may arrive as late as November for the christmas season...who knows!
Posted By: donw Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 07:51 PM
I just upgraded to the Pioneer PDP 5070 from a Mitsubishi analog. The picture quality is really incredible. My living room is somewhat neutral, not very dark nor light. I ordered online from Invision Displays.
Posted By: Lorenzo1000 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 08:17 PM
Quote:

Quote:

This technology is becoming simular to PC's. As soon as you purchase it, it becomes "old". Patience is not one of my virtues. I finally convinced the wife to upgrade from our current analog Mitsubishi to HDTV and now you suggest to wait. Is summer time a realistic time frame? I can hold out a little longer if the technology is significantly better. This TV is going into the family room that has two windows on the west side of the room. I plan on getting room darkening blinds.




I don't know anything about plasmas, I know alot of projectors though I suggest going with what you want, if you want to bite now, you midaswell. The thing with technology is it is usually always delayed, if Pioneer says summer 2007, it may arrive as late as November for the christmas season...who knows!




Anything new is going to be expensive. Almost all the new plasma displays coming out this year are going to be 1080P but they will of course come with a price tag. From what I've heard if you sit more than 8 or 9 feet away from the TV you won't be able to tell the difference between 1080I and 1080P. Add to this the fact that any 1080P broadcasts are years away so that the only 1080P source you may have are bluray or hd-dvd discs and the cheaper sets like my 720P LG(which looks just great IMHO) seem like a bargain right now. I think it all depends on what you want and are able to afford.
Posted By: sonicfox Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 09:06 PM
This is what I'm getting! With all the new technologies coming out and the price of LCD's coming down, I might be able to afford it.
Posted By: Ken.C Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 09:09 PM
Wow.... um... gee...
Posted By: HomeDad Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/09/07 09:40 PM
Quote:

I might be able to afford it




But could you get it through the door.
Posted By: bigjim63 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 07:27 PM
Just went to a local reseller and saw Sony's HDTVKDL-52XBR3. I was quite impressed. Is the LCD worth the extra $$ to have 1080p? I know broadcasts are only 1080i and only Blue -ray is 1080p, but how soon does every catch up and 1080p is the thing to have? Sony announce a 70" LCD for a mere $33,000.
Posted By: Ken.C Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 07:33 PM
I would bet that there will never be a broadcast 1080p standard. If all the studios just paid to upgrade their stuff to 1080i...

EDIT: Cancel all that. Just realized there was a standard already. Nemmind...
Posted By: packetlosss Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 07:49 PM
Quote:

Just went to a local reseller and saw Sony's HDTVKDL-52XBR3. I was quite impressed. Is the LCD worth the extra $$ to have 1080p? I know broadcasts are only 1080i and only Blue -ray is 1080p, but how soon does every catch up and 1080p is the thing to have? Sony announce a 70" LCD for a mere $33,000.




LCD's don't display an interlaced image. From what I understand, 1080i broadcasts contain all the frames needed to construct a 1080p signal.

A 1080p LCD will have a resolution of 1920x1080. I have 2 sets, one is a 32" 1080i LCD with 1368x768 resolution, the other is a 46" 1080p LCD with 1920x1080. The image is a little crisper on the 46" (for 1080i content). I think it's worth it.
Posted By: Ken.C Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 07:51 PM
If it's 1366x768, it's not 1080i--it's just taking a 1080i input and scaling it. That would by why it's a little crisper on the 1080p set--because it actually has the right number of pixels!
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 08:33 PM
All TV's display in their native resolution. So if its 768 or 720P the signal is scaled or converted to that. In the case of 1080P a 1080i signal is broadcast at 60fps....the 1080P set holds half of the interlaced signal 540 lines and sends it whe the next set of 540 at the same time. So its 1080P at 30fps.

Determine what you like to watch, lighting conditions, seating distance and viewing angle.

Plasma has great viewing angles, fast response time (usually 4ms)outstanding colour reproduction, but the glare off the protective glass screen can be an issue if you cant control the lighting conditions.

LCD has similar viewing angles, but normally slower response time, often 8ms which can result in some blurring diring fast scenes and not the level of glare that comes with plasma displays.

If viewing angle is not a huge issue there is also LCOS rear projection, both Sony SXRD and JVC HDILA have announced new 1080P displays that are in the 10-12" depth range for a 60" set. They have great colours, black levels,response time, good for well lit rooms, but are not as thin as LCD or Plasma and dont have wide viewing angles.

Science says the human eye can not notice the added pixel count of 1080 sets vs 720 unless really close. I seem to notice a slightly better depth of picture between the 2.

Good luck.
Posted By: HomeDad Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 08:36 PM
If I was to get another TV I would go with 1080p just to try and keep up with the new technology. Toshiba is also coming out with a 1080p HDDVD player this year.
Posted By: alan Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 08:37 PM
Hi BigJim and greetings to all from the CES in Las Vegas,

1080p displays do have more pixels than a 720p display. What this means is that you can sit closer to a 1080p display--about 4 feet from a 50-inch vs. 8 or 9 feet for a 720p 50-inch (LCD, plasma, or DLP) and see the same clarity.

Put another way, you can get a bigger screen--say 65 inches or more-- and view it from the same distance that you'd normally require for a 50-inch display. But if you normally sit 9 or 10 feet away, a 50-inch 1080p display won't appear any sharper than a 720p display at that distance because it is beyond the resolution of the human eye. So you have to move closer or get a bigger display.

I've just been doing a bunch of these comparisons here at the CES.

Again, I've been underwhelmed by the Pioneer plasma panels.
Some of the really stunning looking displays are from Panasonic (plasma and LCD) Sony (LCD), Hitachi, Sharp (LCD) and Samsung, the latter just a hair behind the former, at least in the show demos.

A number of the new LCD panels incorporate a dynamic backlight that varies with the picture information to enhance black levels, and it really works. Also the refresh rates of newer panels are at 120 Hz to reduce any lateral motion artifacts.

One of the really knock-out images was Sony's OLED (Organic Light-Emitting Diode) display of the 1/4-inch thick panels. No backlight is required as they generate their own light, but it's early. Most of the panels are 12 inches and the largest is 27 inches. None for sale, so it will be some years before we see consumer versions.

There will be more detailed info in the upcoming Axiom newsletter for January.

Regards,
Posted By: alan Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 08:42 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention Toshiba. I'd include Toshiba with the group I mentioned above.

Regards,
Posted By: packetlosss Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 08:54 PM
Quote:

If it's 1366x768, it's not 1080i--it's just taking a 1080i input and scaling it. That would by why it's a little crisper on the 1080p set--because it actually has the right number of pixels!




Correct. You won't find any "true" 1080i sets, however there are some 1366x768 sets that won't properly display a 1080i signal.

The only sets you will see with 1920x1080 resolution are 1080p sets, which is why I think it's worth getting a 1080p set even now.
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 09:03 PM
Jim, after seeing your earlier post, I understand that you dont want to wait as there is always something "better" coming along. I played that game for almost 2 years before my purchase.

Since you are going to control room lighting and may want to take advantage of some model close outs before the new stuff comes out this spring summer, I would suggest the Panasonic Plasma (either of the consumer models 60 or 600 series). Its a great display and more bang for the buck compared to Pioneer.

If you want to look at a 1080P display, then check out the Sony SXRD 60" or 70" XBR2...not the A2000 ( an ISF calibrator told me the video processor on the XBR2 is superior to the A2000).

We sit 14 ft from a 61" 1080P set in a room approx 12x16' and could have easily gone with a 70"set

Here is an article explaining resolution a bit better and how some companies claims are not valid http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/0506halfrez/

Here is another explaining seating distance vs 720 vs 1080
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hitech/1137/maxing-out-resolution.html
Posted By: Ken.C Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 09:33 PM
I don't think you're right about that. There were sets that did 1920x1080 at 1080i before 1080p was available. Otherwise, they didn't display 1080i. It's by definition--even if the lines are scanned in 2 separate waves (i), it's still 1080 lines. Which is 1920x1080.

Sure there are sets that display a 1080i signal-but they're downscaling. So it's not showing 1080i.

Here's an example.

Not made anymore, but maxed out at 1080i, had 1920x1080 pixels.
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 10:51 PM
Quote:

I don't think you're right about that. There were sets that did 1920x1080 at 1080i before 1080p was available. Otherwise, they didn't display 1080i. It's by definition--even if the lines are scanned in 2 separate waves (i), it's still 1080 lines. Which is 1920x1080.

Sure there are sets that display a 1080i signal-but they're downscaling. So it's not showing 1080i.

Here's an example.

Not made anymore, but maxed out at 1080i, had 1920x1080 pixels.




That sharp was touted as a 1080P TV not 1080i, see here: http://www.i4u.com/article5121.html

The CRTRP TV's were often 540P, 1080i. I think this is because there is not a definitive pixel structure like microdisplay screens. The CRT is just one big tube being bombarded by phosphors to create the picture.

Bottom line is both a 720P set and a 1080P set are considered HDTV and are considerably better than watching a 480P DVD on your old direct view CRT.

I went 1080P projection, because it was only $200 more than the same TV in 720P, so why not. Both a 768 plasma or 1080P(provided it does 1080 as per the article)LCD or RPTV are great pictures. You may notice I am not a DLP fan as most create 1080P via "wobulation"
Posted By: x94blair3 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 10:56 PM
I don't even know what this thread is about, but I see video and 1080p discussions. I bought myself a 61 inch Samsung DLP - the 6188 over the holidays and I love it. I sit 9 foot back which is close to the sweet spot for 1080p content. And it does looks outstanding with true 1080p (via my PS3). 1080i and 720p look excellent as well. Really considering the challenges (close seating, poor feed, big picture to scale to) the set does a pretty great job with SD content. I was surprised.

At any rate, if anyone is shopping for a true 1080p set I would add the Samsung 56, 61, or 71? 88's to their list to consider. A couple of calibrators over at AVS swear by them as sets that are most capable of dialing in to film standards with the least compromises.

Out of the box (and in show rooms) they don't look that great, but that's because they come with DNIE AND Digital NR enabled which based on "initial settings" from the calibrators is one of the first things you should turn off.

If anyone ever has any questions about the Samsung please PM me and I'll be happy to try and answer as I get more familiar with it.

Nick
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 10:57 PM
Quote:


The only sets you will see with 1920x1080 resolution are 1080p sets, which is why I think it's worth getting a 1080p set even now.




Not entirely true...the HP MD5880 DLP sets projected an interlaced 1080 x 960 pixel image and called it 1080P. The vertical lines of resolution were progressive, but the horizontal was "wobulated" to get the 1080 x 1920 pixel image.

So it was called 1080P and got some great reviews, but if you really looked at the screen it had a lot of video noise and I just find DLP fatiguing to my eyes.

1080P is the new buzzword, but not the holy grail of video.
Posted By: x94blair3 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 11:03 PM
Quote:

You may notice I am not a DLP fan as most create 1080P via "wobulation"




They may 'create' 1080p utilizing wobulation, but you're something other than human if that really impacts your viewing experience. To me, the whole wobulation arguement (and in some cases panic) is one of those techy angles that sound great on paper, but doesn't bear fruit in real life.

In the end, we all buy what looks best to us with the fewest compromises within our budget. The size, features and immersive experience of my 61 inch DLP from 9 foot was one of my better purchases at $2450. Having seen real 1080p content at 61 inches I couldn't imagine going to a 50inch plasma at 720p even though I've always found them eye catching.

Wasn't trying to flame, it's all about the entertainment, so as long as we're all enjoying that's great.
Posted By: x94blair3 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 11:05 PM
I'll just go ahead and apologize now for the "other than human" comment. Obviously you've already clarified you found the experience fatiguing. I must be half blind or something! If anyone else is also half blind, I'd still recommend DLP for you.
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/10/07 11:41 PM
Quote:

Quote:

You may notice I am not a DLP fan as most create 1080P via "wobulation"




They may 'create' 1080p utilizing wobulation, but you're something other than human if that really impacts your viewing experience. To me, the whole wobulation arguement (and in some cases panic) is one of those techy angles that sound great on paper, but doesn't bear fruit in real life.

In the end, we all buy what looks best to us with the fewest compromises within our budget. The size, features and immersive experience of my 61 inch DLP from 9 foot was one of my better purchases at $2450. Having seen real 1080p content at 61 inches I couldn't imagine going to a 50inch plasma at 720p even though I've always found them eye catching.

Wasn't trying to flame, it's all about the entertainment, so as long as we're all enjoying that's great.




No problem Blair, the knee jerk reaction is common in online forums. I just hate when the Manufacturer tries to deceive the consumer by calling something that it isnt. I looked at the HP DLP which got great reviews and it looked like a great picture. When I found it fatiguing I looked closer and the picture noise was apparent. Then when I read how it achieved the 1920 it all made sense.

The Sammy DLP's are very nice sets and I have nothing against them, at least the 87, 88 series. The 64's were sub par. I just became less of a DLP fan the more I heard of light engine, bulb and colour wheel failures.

I dont think its fair to compare 50" panny plasma to 61" sammy DLP, as the smaller screen will show less pixel structure and perceived higher resolution.

I compared 56" JVC in 1080P, to 58 " Panny Plasma 768P and Sony SXRD 60" 1080P side by side in a store and there was really no noticeable difference. Some scenes looked better on the JVC, some looked better on the Panasonic, some on the Sony.

When I compared the 720P JVC, to 1080P JVC, to 1080P Sony...I noticed the 1080P to have marginally better picture depth, but no pixel structure, but all were excellent displays.......So I really didnt see a HUGE improvement in having a 1080P set, which is why I think a Panasonic TH58PX60 is a great TV to own regardless of it being 768 x1366 and not 1080P.
Posted By: bigjim63 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 02:20 AM
Thanks for the information and the resolution debate. Even before I posted my question I liked the Panasonic TH58PX60. Like I mentioned earlier I would hate to spend that kind of money and in 2 years think I need to upgrade again, but isn't that some of the joy of loving audio/video equipment??
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 03:48 AM
Yeah Jim, that is the nice part. At least with Video stuff the prices seem to keep falling. My buddy got a 50" LCDRP set a couple years ago for $4500 and now you can pick that up for $1500. Heck, my year of paralysis by analysis saved me $1600 as the TV I wanted went down in price this past year.

In 2 or 3 years, you can move that 58" into the bedroom and get a 86" in 2160P for $1000 less, or whatever technology is on the market. I was just reminiscing about my 8088 computer with a 40 meg hard drive and its 5.25 floppy disc drive I had back in '92

good luck on whatever TV you get. I hope you enjoy it.
Posted By: JohnK Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 04:17 AM
As was pointed out, all flat panel plasma and LCD sets are progressive scan, so any such 1080 set has to display the material at 1080p. If the incoming material is 1080i, the set deinterlaces it to 1080p so that it can be shown. If the incoming material is 1080p(rare)and the set can input 1080p, then no deinterlacing is necessary in the set. Theoretically this should be slightly superior, but if the deinterlacing in the set is good there may be no actual visible difference. So, the 1080i vs 1080p input capability may be of very little significance.
Posted By: packetlosss Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 02:45 PM
Quote:

As was pointed out, all flat panel plasma and LCD sets are progressive scan, so any such 1080 set has to display the material at 1080p. If the incoming material is 1080i, the set deinterlaces it to 1080p so that it can be shown. If the incoming material is 1080p(rare)and the set can input 1080p, then no deinterlacing is necessary in the set. Theoretically this should be slightly superior, but if the deinterlacing in the set is good there may be no actual visible difference. So, the 1080i vs 1080p input capability may be of very little significance.




Thats pretty much what I was trying to say.

The confusing thing to the average consumer that doesn't research this at all, is that "99.9%" (since ctown mentioned there was at least one wobbulated 1080i set) of monitors claiming to be 1080i, only do so with respect to the fact that it ACCEPTS a 1080i signal. So in fact it's not really a 1080i set, rather it's 760p.

In any case, if you can afford a 1080p set which has to have at least 1920x1080 resolution, it is worth the money.
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 03:37 PM
Quote:

So, the 1080i vs 1080p input capability may be of very little significance.




Exactly. Thats why its pretty funny when the sales clerks at A/V stores say "there is very little 1080P sources available, so you dont need a 1080P set...buy this 1080i one".

The fact is that converting 1080i source material to 1080P display is rather easy and if that is becoming the broadcast standard....why not buy it if the price isnt that much.

That being said, 1080i source material scaled down to a 720P display, still looks fantastic as well.
Posted By: x94blair3 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 03:46 PM
There might not be very much 1080p content, but what you do see is better in my opinion. I can tell the difference.

And while I understand the idea of wobulation and it's contribution to "video noise", I disagree with it's impact with HD source (which I presume if fair to use for judging). While my TV showed more noise in the image with all content when it arrived at my house, reducing sharpness and turning off 'features' like DNIe & digital noise eliminated most of it. I expect the image to get even more film like post calibration. I wouldn't just attribute it all to wobulation and move on. Especially if you're half blind like me
Posted By: ctown Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 04:57 PM
Quote:

I wouldn't just attribute it all to wobulation and move on. Especially if you're half blind like me




X94Blair, your Samsung TV has a really great picture which instantly stands out on a showroom floor. I'm not attacking DLP, nor am I promoting the brand that I chose. Based upon purchasing pshchology, we all buy for different reasons.

Appearance: How the product looks or makes the purchaser look. B&W owners vs. Axiom owners.
Performance: How the product performs, features it has, etc. Axiom owners vs. B&W owners.
Economics: Price or long term cost.
Comfort and convenience: Internet direct, vs haggling with a salesman.
Safety and security: buying a reliable car vs. a sporty car.

I am a performance motivated buyer. So if I know that a Sharp LCD, Sony projection, HP DLP are using some form of "bobbing" or "wobulation" to gain resolution, where some other brands are just using a better video processor, I will chose the brand with the better processor. That is MY personal preference(not everybody elses)

For what its worth, the ISF calibrator I talked to said the Samsung DLP, Panasonic Plasma, Sony XBR2, JVC HDILA and Mits DLP all had excellent video processors and were his favorite sets.

Bigjim asked about the Panny plasma or LCD in his OP. I think the panny plasma is his best bet. I hope he gets a set he likes and am happy you like yours.

Al
Posted By: x94blair3 Re: Ready to upgrade - 01/11/07 06:41 PM
I'm sure I probably jacked the thread.

All I meant to say was in the case of DLP I think it's a disservice to say wobulation and move on. The science doesn't equal the reality in all cases. With that in mind, I was only offering the counterpoint in case others wandered by and left thinking "DLP are inherently unsuitable by design" without considering them.

As you say, I enjoy my gear, that's my biggest concern and what I think everyone should be focusing on. There's little point or room for "fan-boy" antics.

If anything debating the effects of wobulation was my way saying "ignore the science and go with what you like!".

Sorry if I came across otherwise, all good here and I'll step out of the conversation. If it came down to plasma -vs- LCD and that was the initial question I agree I'd go plasma.

Enjoy!
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