Just wanted some assurance before purchasing the ever popular amp from emotiva. I currently have a yamaha v2600(130wpc) powering my epic 60-500 7.2 system, will a dedicated amp(with less watts per channel) give me superior sound vs any of these do-all recievers in its price class? If so, what kind of upgrade will I be seeing? Will they just be driven louder? Or will they actually produce better sound quality? Forgive the newbie questions, I have never had a seperate amp before.
Sorry, I couldn't resist! Plus, at 91 posts, you really aren't a newbie.
Day to day, you probably won't hear any difference. They key is when you push them, at what point does each one start to clip, and you hear distortion.
Generally, a separate amp with a robust power supply and higher rated power, will have a higher threshold before it starts to clip. If it were me, I would only buy a separate amp if it was at least double the rated power of your receiver.
What kind of power are you driving into your M60s during everyday listening?
My v2600 is rated at 130wpc x7...I rarely watch movies at more than -6db but even at that point high frequencies are harsh and it quickly becomes fatiguing. I doubt the yammie performs at its rated power, especially considering I bought it refurbished. Generally speaking my system performs well, but I can't help but feel like my systems performance isn't matching the quality that people are describing in some of these topics and in the professional reviews.
I spoke moments ago with a man named J.C. at axiom and he assured me that the Emotiva LPA-1, despite its slightly lower power rating will give me increased performance over my yammie. I assumed it would, but to what extent is what I'm wondering. Perhaps maybe the RPA-1 will be a better purchase? Feed all that power into my mains, take some of the load off of the yammie and let it do the rest. Maybe add a Outlaw monoblock for a center in the future? Any suggestions? Should I just stick with getting the LPA-1 and see how it helps?
Hey Drew,
My Denon 2805 drives my center and 4 qs8's, which I'm sure your Yammy would also do fine in that category. However, I now have my 80's being driven by Odyssey Mono amps, one per speaker. Contrary to what some will say there is a difference to my ears. I have a very large room and have to turn it up louder to fill the space, especially if I'm on the other side of the room shooting a game of pool.
At higher volumes, it was obvious to me the Denon was straining, clipping, or whatever you want to call it. I can tell you now that I have yet to experience this with my Odyssey's, they just keep going and going, with no distress.
I did have a Emotiva MPS-1 for 3 months but had issues with the internal limiter circuitry shutting down the amp prematurely. Keep in mind I was driving 80's, your 60's would have no issues.
The RPA-1 with the old vue meters would look cool and drive those 60's to sonic utopia.
Keep in mind I use my system for movies 90% of the time, the rest of for tv, gaming, music etc...
To put it simply, I'm hoping to achieve a warmer, more dynamic sound with my axioms. Would the LPA-1 help in this regard?
I really think that instead of getting a full 5.1-7.1 dedicated amp, to just get a 2 channel amp to drive your mains, if you are really that worried about it.
Depending on the size of your room, you may or may not even notice a difference...
Good point Hutzal!
You will always wonder about the difference until you try. That's what 30 day trials are for!
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My v2600 is rated at 130wpc x7...I rarely watch movies at more than -6db but even at that point high frequencies are harsh and it quickly becomes fatiguing.
What is the range of your main gain?
And what are your left and right channel levels set at and what is their range?
my right channel is set at -1.0db my left is set at -0.5db.
Main gain? Range? Please explain...
Main gain=main volume control. What is its minimum and maximum range?
Also, what is the minimum and maximum range of your channel off-sets?
Having the dedicated amp has really helped for music for me. If you say 90% is movies for you, you may not see as much difference. My 80's really sing now.
For movies, especially ones with lots of dynamic action and explosions I've noticed some difference in the impact.
I think the main gain is like...-60db to 20db...i could be wrong. Channel off sets?
I think im just gonna have to order and see...By your reccomendations, should I get the two channel 200 X 2? or the 7 channel lpa-1 125 X 5 + 75 X 2?
Get the one big amp for the front mains and join the big ass amp club
Normally I would say get the 200x2. But since your Yammi is distorting the highs at -6 and since you bought it refurbished, I am sure something needs fixing. So I wouldn't rely on it and I'd move on to the LPA-1 multi-channel.
Alternatively, you can get the 200Wx2 now and live with your Yammy for your centre and surrounds until you are ready to upgrade the receiver.
I love being a member of the Big Ass Amp Club!
Thanks Rick for letting me join....
My original plan was to get a 5 or 7 channel amp setup to drive all of my speakers. But after giving it some thought, and based on the problems I was having with a multi channel amp and my 80's. I decided on monoblocks for my 80's and let the AVR do the rest. After all it does all the surround decoding.
You can always get a new receiver, but I don't see why your Yammy should have issues with the center and surround channels.
My vote is for Odysseys, oh wait, you are looking at Emotiva. I think the RPA-1 looks pretty cool, and for 699 that is a bad ass amp for a good price.
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Normally I would say get the 200x2.
Say what 
I thought you were in the 1/4 watt club Never mind you are the 1/4 watt club
Maybe he should send his Yammy into Sean at Stereo Daves for a modification, then it would be like a Bad Ass Rotel.
No, Drew; unless your present use is exceeding the capacity of the amplifier in your 2600(highly unlikely from your description of the level that you're using)neither the Emotiva nor any other replacement amplifier can give you an improvement in sound quality; that isn't the way amplification works. The 2600 is transparent at levels below its max and doesn't contribute to the "harsh" highs that you mention. Unless an amplifier is defective you should look to other possibilities, such as the source materials or the speakers, to find the cause of harshness in the sound.
That RPA really does look nice. And no break-in is required on the capacitors so you can start enjoying it right away
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I think Emotiva really has found the sweet spot on the value curve. I just don't understand how it makes any money. I have never heard one but...oh, wait...I don't need to hear it. All amps sound the same
.
It looks like I wasn't able to convince him to join the 1/4 Watt club so I figured I'd steer him to the full meal deal
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My next amp will be an A1400-8...playing at a 1/4 Watt
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My next amp will be an A1400-8...playing at a 1/4 Watt .
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The 2600 is transparent at levels below its max and doesn't contribute to the "harsh" highs that you mention.
I think you're referring to its spec'd max power. Not its max volume setting, right?
Well I'm getting the tweeters on my vp150 replaced, so thats a start. I think it was caused from playing my system at obscenely loud levels when I first purchased it.
As for Odyssey, I thought that was one of those auto-eq systems. I'll look into them soon.
Yep, you are thinking of Audyssey which is one of the newest auto-setup offerings in many AVR's on the market, it looks pretty promising.
Odyssey Audio is the only US distributor of the famous, and expensive, German Symphonic Line of amps and speakers. Klaus Bunge, the owner of Odyssey Audio, has been the dealer since the 80's. Step ahead into the 90's and he worked out an agreement with Symphonic to make a line of affordable amps in the US under the name Odyssey, using the German design created by world renown designer Rolf Gemein.
What do you guys mean by auto set-up?
Drew, to give you a little more "assurance" about your 2600, you might study the
S&V lab test and review which illustrates its excellence. As to it being a refurb, if anything the check it underwent would make it more likely to perform to spec.
Mo, yes I was referring to the max power spec, not the max setting on the volume control. At a low level in the music, even with the volume control at max, the output might be 1 watt or less.
Your Denon does not offer Auto Setup and Calibration using the provided microphone? It could be that technology came in later models. Most AVR's today come with a microphone that you place in the primary listening position, run the built in AVR setup routine, which adjusts for delay, dB levels, and sets speakers to "small" or "large" automatically.
The latest Denon, Onkyo, and some other AVR's offer the latest Audyssey which was developed by one of the THX founders. It lets you take upto 6 or 8 readings from different locations to get the best sound from all seats.
AudysseyAudio
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As to it being a refurb, if anything the check it underwent would make it more likely to perform to spec.
Was the re-furb done at the factory? If so, I would agree with JohnK.
Yeah, it does. Never mind. I got confused. I thought you guys meant Odyssey had auto set-up and that of course didn't make sense to me.
I see now that there was confusion between Audyssey and Odyssey.
Wow. Fantastic performance from an $800 integrated receiver.
I really don't think there is anything wrong with the 2600 - at -6db on the volume control, you've most likely hit the max output and are clippping. What was the input level/voltage from the source DVD? My Yamaha (albeit a much lower model) only goes to 0dB max, not +20dB. I thought the 2600 was the same. Driving the M80's, I can only go up to about -10db, and it starts to clip. At that point, I've either reached the max output of the transistors, and/or the max voltage available from the power supply. I've got it set to 8ohm, and the thing has NEVER shut down. (But I back it off when I hear it clip)
Randy was dealing with the same thing with his Emo - but it's design just shut it down before it would clip. We're just hitting the max output available AT that certain load and input voltage.
Another thing I've noticed is that even though my Denon would also go to +20 on the volume knob, that was only if all my speakers were set to 0dB. Say I had my 80's calibrated to +6dB in the receiver setup. Then the highest I can go with the volume is +14dB (20dB - 6dB).
So even though you have your volume at -6dB for movies, you potentially could be at higher levels for any given speaker that is calibrated with higher dB levels than 0dB.
Perhaps I didn't properly describe my problem, but my problem isn't that major, after all I've had this configuration for almost a year. The problems I'm having are much more subtle than that, like I said, volumes aren't that high, but the high frequencies are slightly harsh, dialog can be irritating on certain sources, for example, on Letters From Iwo Jima, just about every line of dialog is very harsh. Other movies, like Star Wars III have a slightly harsh hiss on S's.
JC from axiom suggested to use the yammie cinema EQ, but I have no idea how to make those adjustments. JC also assured me that the LPA-1 will give me a cleaner sound than the yammie despite the lower power rating.
Like every neophyte audioholic, I'm just looking for ways to increase the performance of my system, given the high regard of the epic 60-500 system, I'm hoping to hear what people in some of these topics and in the reviews hear. I don't believe I've quite gotten there yet.
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I rarely watch movies at more than -6db but even at that point high frequencies are harsh and it quickly becomes fatiguing.
This is not a problem with the electronics.
Either the volume is too loud in such case anyone's ears tire after awhile, or you are not enjoying the tweeter section as much as you once did.
Although it can be considered blasphemy by some, a 1-2dB dip in some of the upper end spectrum can 'sound' nicer on the ears. This is what i found with the Monitor Audio speakers that i auditioned.
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JC from axiom suggested to use the yammie cinema EQ, but I have no idea how to make those adjustments.
JC's suggestion is a very good one actually. The manual is available here. You should be able to find out how to configure cinema EQ in there.
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a 1-2dB dip in some of the upper end spectrum can 'sound' nicer on the ears.
Good point. Axiom can send you some resistors for your tweeters that will attenuate them as john mentioned.
How do I do that? Axiom can send me what?
Call and ask them about the resistors, they do indeed have them.
drew88,
I found the output of the Axiom tweeter to be a bit 'hard' on my ears. Yes i could use the harsh or bright words, {did i just say that out loud?}, so Joe had suggested and sent out a resistor to place just before the tweeters to knock down their signal by a dB or two.
I personally found it integrated better with midrange and put the two more into SPL sync (i.e., my ears were not as fatigued over time). I have resistors on the tweeters for the M60s and VP150.
As far as i could tell (in a blind test with my M60s, one with and one w/o the resistor), it did nothing to the quality of the sound. Now only some horrible or bright recordings pierce the ears. I'm still bitter at the terrible quality of U2- Joshua Tree.
I haven't heard any good U2 recordings.
Drew, the additional details that you've given indicate even more strongly that what you describe isn't something that can be helped by replacing the 2600 with the Emotiva or anything else.
As to the harshness on some program material(poor?)the first thing that comes to mind is the treble tone control, which is there to be used in such situations. Your 2600 can set variable turnover frequencies for this and you might experiment by applying a 3-4dB treble cut on the offending material.
Another point is that although you haven't made clear whether you're using the YPAO room equalization feature, if you are you might find that setting it to "Natural" rather than "Flat" would give you a more pleasing overall treble balance.
Since you don't have the issue with all program material, it may not be a good idea to use the resistors which permanently reduce the treble output for all sources, regardless of whether they need it.
I didn't use the YPAO feature in the yammie. I simply did the level checks, distance etc...and I left the rest alone. I've toyed around with both treble and bass settings recently and it hasn't produced much of a difference except to make dialog sound hollow.
**The yammie didn't come with the necessary microphone to utilize the YPAO feature, but people warned me against using it anyway.
