I just picked up an Onkyo 705. I am working on choosing my TV between a 58 Panny (1080p), 6070 Pioneer (768p), Samsung 52 LCD (5271), and trashing my budget and getting a Pioneer 6010.

I am working on a few subs - but am leaning towards the SVS PB12-Plus (because the cherry color is not-debatable with the wife).

So my speaker decision is somewhat constrained by the overall budget which can be spread out to a nicer TV and the expensive (to me) subwoofer.

My thought at present is:

3x M22s (L/R/Center)
2x QS8
SVS PB12-Plus

or

2x M60s
1x CP150 (or M22s)
2x QS8
(other cherry-wood Sub cheaper than the SVS due to the higher price of the M60s and CP150)

What do you guys think? Also I think the stands for the M22s are a bit expensive - any good alternatives without building?

Trying to keep my speaker budget to around 2K including sub. I could possibly even get a rear channel in that budget depending.

Thanks in advance for your advice. I am sure I will be happy with most any setup since I currently roll with the TV speaker on a 27" CRT that is 15 years old or so!

So you are looking for a Cherry Wood Set up? Have you looked at the free upgrade to High Gloss Cherry (or Burlied Walnut) that Axiom is currently doing?




As for subs, wouldn't you want to get an EP500 in the same finish as your other speakers?


For some excellent pictures of the High Gloss see.. HERE

Well the price difference between the EP500 and the SVS PB12-Plus is a big factor. I won't pay that much for a sub unless it also does my laundry.

I am not sure about the gloss vs standard finish... will have to check with the wife.

My major dilemma is the M22s vs the M60s and the M22s vs the CP150.

Nice pictures by the way (and how do you like your HSU sub? If they made those in wood finish they would be in the running).

I went to the SVS website before the last post and saw they had the sub you referenced for a clearout price of $1000 or so. The EP500 is listed at roughly $100 more. I'm guessing you found it for cheaper?

I can't give you any input on the 22's vs the 60's as I've only heard the 22's in a local HVAC store in Burlington. There's been a lot of posts recently though that mentioned that the 22's are slightly more detailed than the 60's. So your ears preference will play more into which one you would want. The 22's have been compared to sound more like the M80's.

I've been very happy with my HSU. They used to have rosewood colors, not sure if they still do?

Where do you live? I'm in Burlington and you're welcome to come over for a listen sometime. By the way the HG Cherry pics were from another forum member in Toronto "DanielBme"

The 22s are more detailed, forward yet thin-sounding compared to the 60s. Many have been able to make the 22s sound warm with the addition of a sub. The 60s are less detailed but warmer and laid back. They become more detailed and forward with higher volumes.

In one opinion.
The M22s, M60 and M80s are virtually identical in blind listening tests with subtle differences in the bass output, or perhaps not as subtle with the M22s vs. two large floorstanding speakers.
I agree the M22s should be paired with a sub.


A common trait attributed to the fact that in listening tests human subjects will pick the louder and otherwise identical speaker as sounding 'better'.
Isn't science great?
Why yes, yes it is.
Am i talking to myself?
Why yes, yes i am.

The SVS sub is $799 as an overstock 'special' - so at the moment it is considerably cheaper.

I am in Tennessee - so I'm quite far from Burlington! Thanks though.

So ... besides the mains - how about the M22 in stead of the CP150?

Also - when people say that M22s sound better with a sub - does that mean some/many people run the M60s with no sub?

Thanks for all your opinions...

Indy, welcome. Considering that you're going to be using a good sub, your proposal of three M22s across the front should be excellent, assuming that you'll have the room to properly place a vertical M22 center.

In two opinions, Chess. Jakewash and I both heard the same thing .

Perhaps Axiom has tweaked these speakers over the years to the point where they now do sound considerably different compared to what some of you may have heard years ago.

Hey Industrialstr, maybe I’m not as crazy as I thought.

Hey Grunt - Thanks for pointing me over here

So... you have to stand the M22 upright? Would it kill it to lay it down or something?

I don't see how I could stand it up really.

Thanks!

Placed vertically it has a smoother and wider horizontal dispersion, which advantage is lost when it's placed horizontally.

This thread has covered how 22s and 60s might sound different (although they're supposed to be pretty close) but so far there hasn't been any discussion about size of room, size of listening area within room, type of content (movie vs different types of music), how loud you like to play etc...

For music M60s sound great without a sub while M22s can definitely benefit from a sub for some kinds of music. The main thing though is that 60s will move more air than the 22s and do so "equally well", so if you have a large room or like to play music/movies relatively loudly you would probably want to look hard at 60s.

How big is your room etc... ?

Like JohnK said, a single M22 placed horizontally does not sound right at all. However, two horizontal M22s placed in a TMMMMT arrangement sound better than a VP100 or VP150.

Yep, I found the same with M2s.

If you place a normal speaker on its side the apparent location of the sound changes depending on the frequency, which really blurs imaging. If you have a symmetrical driver arrangement (either a purpose-built center channel or two regular speakers with mirror-image placement) that problem goes away because all the sound seems to emanate from the center no matter what the frequency.

That's right, John. That's exactly what Jakewash and I heard. It almost sounded like the sound from a single horizontal M22 was being "thrown" when we listened to it off-axis and it sounded terribly strange.

My room is roughly 20x20 and the speakers will be used almost only for gaming and home theater.

I'm sure I will listen to music from time to time. I listen to a wide variety of music - from classical and opera to funk, industrial, punk and rock/metal.

Sounds like I will need to go with the CP150 center because I cannot imagine where I would stand the M22 upright - and I don't think 2 M22s end-to-end would be cost effective (also how would you wire that? split the signal?).

Would the M22s sound to 'small' in a 400 sq ft room? The speakers will be roughly 12 feet from the viewing/listening position.

Thanks again guys

Two M22s arranged in a horizontal fashion are $62 more than a VP150. If you plan on frequently listening to the centre 10 to 30 degrees off-axis, I would highly recommend two horizontal M22s. If not, go with the 150.

Two M22s as fronts are more than adequate for your room size. Know however that if you get M80s, you will have more amp headroom. The M22s are about half as sensitive as the M80s so you will need twice the amplifier power into the M22s as the M80s to achieve the same sound pressure level.

I think the M80s are really out of the equation because of the price and the fact that I won't be pushing the system very much.

My receiver is an Onkyo 705 - not the beefiest amp in the business to be sure but it fit my budget.

How would I connect two M22s to the center channel outputs? Would this be greatly better than the CP150?

I don't plan on listening loud - we really just want clear 'immersive' sound and some nice deep base accents to movies.

You would connect two M22s in parallel by connecting + to + and - to -.

I don't know if the 705 will drive the dual M22 4 Ohm load. I'm sure if you don't crank the volume it should work fine.

Forget this M22 as a centre nonsense.
Clearly everyone knows the best centre is the vertical VP150.

Wouldn't it be better still directly in front of the TV?

For the purist in video quality, no.
For the purist in audio quality, yes.

Indeed so, chess, but possibly Charles was contemplating a brilliant arrangement in which the top of the VP150 would approximately coincide with the bottom of the screen.

Agreed, John. This time I think Charles was being serious. He almost had us fooled, though.

Ha ha, no, chess had it right.

I'm still wanting to play with center channel options, though. It still seems to be a tossup for me, whenever I get around to having a front projector. I could do the acoustically transparent screen at that point and have a matching floorstander for the center channel, but I'm not sure how good I can make that look. Does anyone have pictures of really attractive theaters with that configuration? Otherwise, it looks like I'll be experimenting with dual centers, which also seems to have its own set of troubles.