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Posted By: jhunt17 Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/06/08 02:16 AM
I know this is an audio forum, but I am SOOOO close to finally buying a projector. I have figured out that this will primarily for movie watching and some gaming. My question are. Has anyone here own either one of these and have seen the other? Or can you just give me your impressions of the one you own. I am big on picture quality. My room is completely light controlled. I would like to be able to watch with some lights on without picture washout. It will be ceiling mounted and around 16 ft back projecting onto a 100in diagonal screen. I am concerned with color accuracy. Skin tones need to be correct and black levels need to be black or at least close that I would not notice it. Is the Sanyo able to do this or is the Epson that much better and worth the extra 1,100 dollars. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Posted By: aham23 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/07/08 01:26 AM
from the folks over at AVS my understanding is the Epson is a step up from the Sanyo. most reviews i have read reflect the same thought. its more on par with the black pearl and jvc units.

only you can say if its worth your extra cash. it is in my book. later.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/09/08 06:14 AM
 Originally Posted By: aham23

only you can say if its worth your extra cash. it is in my book. later.


Ditto that from everything I've read. I'm ordering mine from AVS before the end of the month. They've got a great deal on the pro version if you call their sales department directly.
Posted By: michael_d Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/09/08 05:01 PM
I like Panasonic Projectors. You can tweak the heck out of them without having to hack into some hidden service menu. The 2000 will most likely replace my 1000 before the end of this year.
Posted By: alan Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/09/08 05:24 PM
Hi Jhunt17,

As Mdrew has noted, I also endorse Panasonic projectors as well as some of the Optoma DLP models. Rather than re-write what I've already written, here's a longish excerpt from my last Axiom newsletter (January) with my impressions of projector demos at the Consumer Electronics Show (I've not seen the Epson or Sanyo models you mention):

"Front projectors shown at CES this year continue to improve even as prices decline, an amazing development given that high-definition DLP or LCD projectors of the quality I saw this year cost $10,000 to $20,000 only a few years ago.

I’ve previously spoken of Panasonic’s PT-AX200U LCD 720p front projector, whose outstandingly bright and punchy image is totally free of any “screen-door effects”—visible pixelation that in previous years afflicted all the LCD front projectors that I viewed, including Panasonic’s earlier models. (I haven’t viewed all brands so don’t take umbrage.) Panasonic’s SmoothScreen technology clearly works outstandingly well and there is no loss of clarity or detail and nary a pixel to be seen.

The brightness of a projected image is also a product of projector distance and image size, so you should always try and locate a front projector so you can use it close to the zoom lens’ wide-angle setting, which permits the greatest transmission of light to the screen. The AX200U is unusually versatile and bright in this regard, so it’s possible to project very large images—as big as 150 inches diagonal—and still have the image appear brighter than any 1080p projector I’ve seen. Indeed, the AX200U’s processing of 1080p images from Blu-ray or HD-DVD is so good that at least one critic has called it “the poor man’s 1080 projector.” At a street price of $1,299US, it’s a terrific value and performer.

Even at last year’s Panasonic projector demo, I found the image from the previous 1080p Pansonic model, the AE-1000, while detailed, was somewhat muted, grainy and lacking “punch” by comparison to its less costly 720p sibling, the AX-200U.

This year Panasonic introduced its improved 1080p projector, the PT-AE2000, but the demo was somewhat marred by the insistence of a Panasonic rep explaining the virtues of the projector with the lights on in the room. When the lights were finally turned out, the image was impressive and wonderfully detailed but I still preferred the 720p AX200U’s overall contrast and brightness. I might change my mind if I get a better demo of the AE-2000.

For me, the 1080p projector to beat this year is Optoma’s HD80 DLP unit, which sells for the same amount as the Panasonic AE2000, $2,699US. The Optoma demo was properly conducted in a pitch-dark theater with a huge screen, and the demo sequence from one of the “Pirates. . .” movies (the one where the pirate ship has capsized and the view is from underwater) was enthralling with stunning image quality, detail, vivid color and no visible “rainbow effects.” Try as I might to spot the tell-tale streaks of color when you quickly avert your eyes from the screen then back, I couldn’t. If I had to have a 1080p front projector, the Optoma HD80 is the one I’d choose.-- A.L.

Regards,
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/09/08 10:44 PM
Two things to help you compare. Make sure you read this very recent review if you have not already (January of 2008). If you haven't read Art's reviews, he's a very well-respected reviewer of HT projectors. Of course, everyone has his own opinion, so read the various reviews and see what you think.

Art's Projector Review - Epson 1080 UB

Excerpt...
 Quote:
HC1080UB vs. Sanyo PLV-Z2000

I know I didn't comment much about the Z2000 in the rest of the review, but it is a projector to be reckoned with. If anything, its image is slightly sharper than the Epson, and it does a very respectable job, overall, although the Epson has much better black level performance. I really liked the Z2000 when I reviewed it, and with it, you get an overall excellent picture, at a price well below the Epson - at this time, probably about $600 or so less, and that works out to about 25% less.

Keep in mind that the Epson is especially bright, and the Sanyo less than average in brightness. In fact in brightest mode, the Epson is almost 3 times as bright. Like the Epson, the Sanyo does not support an anamorphic lens.

If you've got the bucks, you'll get more bang from them with the Epson.


The review also includes comparison of the 1080UB against the Optoma models mentioned in Alan's response.

I've cut out some of the stuff below to keep this shorter, use the link above if you want to read it all.

 Quote:
HC1080UB vs. Optoma HD80, HD8000, HD81, HD81-LV

Optoma dominates the 1080p DLP space, at least in terms of projectors widely available. And these Optomas are not all alike, but they share many of the same picture quality attributes.

All the Optoma's have very limited zoom lenses, and no lens shift. That puts you pretty much into two choices - ceiling mounting, or on a table. Since they aren't especially quiet, and we're talking 1080p projectors here, I'll assume you are ceiling mounting. The Epson of course can go just about anywhere, so, no contest, in terms of placement flexibility.

The Optoma's typically need serious tuning out of the box - but then, you've read my reservations about this Epson as well. it's just that a simple adjustment gets the Epson very good in most modes. You'll normally need a calibration disc to do the same for any of the Optomas.

OK, let's get serious here. In my opinion, the Epson equals or beats all of the Optoma projectos in terms of black levels, and shadow detail (remember - I'm not doing side-by-sides). The more expensive Optoma's at least, however, the HD81 and HD81-LV are at least as sharp.

The entry level HD80, however, like the Sanyo, is significantly less expensive. I believe the Epson is the better value, but the HD80 will definitely appeal to those who like the DLP look, and have a limited budget.


Second, if you go with the Epson, check this post on AVS for a $200 rebate that is availabl for the 1080UB. It lessens the price gap a bit further.

AVS Forum - Epson Rebate
Posted By: michael_d Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/09/08 10:57 PM
One other thing to keep in mind with these projectors, is noise. If you are stuck with the projector directly above your head, you will want one that's quiet. Some sound like a jet buzzing and it is very distracting if it's close. In my case, the projector is roughly three feet away. Even though the Pany is one of the quiet units sold, I still hear it. It's for that reason I decided against the Epsons and JVC models. They'd drive me nuts.

One thing is for sure though, you can buy one heck of a 1080P unit today for a great price. It's good to see so many under 3K that perform as well as they do.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/10/08 02:30 AM
 Originally Posted By: mdrew
One other thing to keep in mind with these projectors, is noise.


Very good point, in most of the professional reviews done on the Epson, it is said to have higher than average fan noise in its non-economy modes, so the Sanyo might be better when it comes to noise.

I've been worried about that too but after asking several 1080UB owners on the AVS Forums and getting favorable responses I'm willing to roll the dice (and realize I'm taking a risk on the noise...) Time will tell.
Posted By: doormat Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/10/08 04:25 AM
 Originally Posted By: myrison
... it is said to have higher than average fan noise in its non-economy modes...


I've been using the Epson HomeLite 10 for over 3yrs now in a poor light controlled area (80x100 window, door window, opening to hallway, opening to kitchen) and unless I was watching an afternoon football game it has always been set at Theatre Black (lowest setting). So, if you are setting it up in even a slightly better location, or not using it for daytime TV, you will most likely be using the econo modes.

Posted By: jhunt17 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 01:53 AM
Wow, thanks guys for all of the advice. I have been thinking about this for months. At first I was going to be totally replacing my tv that I love and I needed it to be able to everything well, but now my wife asked if I could put the screen in front of the tv and use it for movies. GAASSSPPP!!!! DID she just say what I think she said!!!! COOL!!! I getta keep it and I can concentrate on using this for just movies. THAT makes things much easier. I won't feel as bad making a decision. Now back to the question at hand. Epson ub Sanyo, or the Panny 2000. The sanyo is said to be more sharp than the ub and since it is just going to be used primarily for movies and games in a completely light controlled environment this would seem to be the way to go, BUT and there is a big but or (BUTT) Sanyo has a wacky policy of if you get a crappy unit you have to keep that one and send it in for repair. WHAT!!! So do I roll the dice and hope I get a good one??? Then there is the Panny, Brighter, not as sharp, but better blacks and about the same as the ub pricewise. Again, better projector, but seem to be issues with it from other forums and their turnaround for the projector seems to not be that great?? So that leaves the epson, which has better blacks, better return policy, but higher price? Can I afford the stretch for the price? Is the projector worth the difference between the Sanyo in a completely light controlled room? Why do projector vendors have to have such short trial times? A couple hours is NOT enough time to figure out if the picture is acceptable in my opinion. Also it seems so strange that I can look at pictures on other forums that are from lower end 720 models and they look absolutely stunning and then I can see pics from a much more expensive that looks crappy, then go back and see a lowerend model that looks crappy? Then a high end model that looks great!!! So what's up? Making these kinda decisions when your a "doubting Thomas" ( I like to SEE what I am buying) makes this so hard. So after hearing a little more of my situation. What do you all think??
Thanks alot!!!
Posted By: doormat Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 02:15 AM
As for return policy, I know that my buddy (after much condescension from me) bought a projector, a Sharp DLP. When the bulb went on that after ~250 hrs it took him 4 months with countless phone calls and emails, to get the situation rectified. They finally caved and offered him a single replacement bulb, for which he had to send in his projector to get installed (another 3 weeks).
I have had no problems (~3400 hrs) with my Epson.
Posted By: jhunt17 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 02:25 AM
From all I have seen. The epson's seem to be rock solid. I have not heard many people complain about anything going wrong with them. That might be the deciding factor. I will pay a little more if I know I am not going to have to worry about it. So far it seems the route to go. I have heard issues with the panny and definitely the sanyo, not just about the return policy. I think I am leaning toward the epson. It'll be a stretch for me, but I think it will be worth it in the long run I think.
Posted By: doormat Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 02:40 AM
I remember the thing that enraged me about Epson last year was when I was looking to buy a replacement bulb (still not req'd) and you couldn't buy them direct from Epson in Canada, only at dealer mark-up. Now, of course, Epson.ca does sell everything. I think they purposely waited for me to buy, just so they could have a laugh. Scumbags.
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:28 AM
The Sanyo's are rock solid as well. Starting with the Z1, Z2, ......to the Z5, and now Z2000. I've owned my Z2 now for 5-6 years and it still has an outstanding 720p picture. When I'm in the market again, the Sanyo's will be top of my list.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:41 AM
If you go with the Epson 1080 UB Pro from AV Science (the AVS store) you can pay an extra $100 to have it quality controlled by one of their lead installers before they send them out.

He's recently been rejecting a pretty high percentage of them due to worse than acceptable convergence. To me, having this review and being guaranteed to get a top-notch unit is worth the extra $100.

For a total of $200, you get the review above as well as professional calibration. Also not bad considering you could never get a real pro to come into your home for this. (this may be overkill for some, but regardless what you think of the calibration, the first hundred bucks seems like a great investment).
Posted By: jhunt17 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:43 AM
Sirquack, how long is your throw with your z2 and what size screen do you use? Is your room light controlled and can you watch your projector with light in the room and not get any washout with your z2?
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:43 AM
Part of calibration is calibrating it in your home environment, not sure how they can achieve this at the factory.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:45 AM
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Part of calibration is calibrating it in your home environment, not sure how they can achieve this at the factory.


Agreed, that's why I said it might be overkill. Maybe wasted money would've been a better way to state it. \:\)
Posted By: jhunt17 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:51 AM
Well, I can't see my budget over 2800 for the projector, plus I agree that you have to calibrate for your own room.
Posted By: jhunt17 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:57 AM
Sirquack, I have discussed getting a projector here before and you have given me advice. I bet your wondering if I am EVER going to actually buy one. It was probably around 6 months ago about ready to get the z5, which I had in the cart and just didn't hit buy!! Must have taken forever that I sat there, but now I am ready. I had been wanting my projector to be a 1080p model and 1.3 compliant. NOW they are finally at this point and I can afford it. GLAD I waited. Now it is about getting the right one. Just afraid of a lemon and it not looking close to my picture I have already, but since I am now going to be keeping my coveted tv and puting the screen in front of it I don't have to worry about it that much. So now it will only be used for movies it should make it easier.
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 03:58 AM
I think I'll wait until my trusty Z2 bulb dies, then sell my projector cheap so the new owner just needs to buy a new bulb and they will be good to go. The 1080p projectors should continue to drop like everything else eventually. Heck, I bought my Z2 new for $1800, now you can get them for under $800 smackers.
Posted By: jhunt17 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 04:06 AM
myrison, Does avs quality control the ub also? or any other projector? I would be interested in that. Just to make sure the convergence is good and color uniformity is good. It would be nice to know those things ahead of time before it is sent to my door, but what is their return policy?
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 04:17 AM
 Originally Posted By: jhunt17
Well, I can't see my budget over 2800 for the projector, plus I agree that you have to calibrate for your own room.


The 1080UB home is 2999 - $200 rebate... $1 within your budget. \:D
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 04:21 AM
 Originally Posted By: jhunt17
myrison, Does avs quality control the ub also? or any other projector? I would be interested in that. Just to make sure the convergence is good and color uniformity is good. It would be nice to know those things ahead of time before it is sent to my door, but what is their return policy?


I'm not sure about other projectors, but I've been monitoring the 1080 UB thread for 600+ posts yet and I've yet to hear anyone complain about a projector after it had been QC'd by Jason.

I'd suggest you call him directly to ask if he'd do another PJ if you're interested in something else... these guys are all great to talk to.

__________________
Jason C. Turk
Sales and Installations
A/V Science, Inc.
877-823-4452 or 315-538-9806
jason@avscience.com


For return policy, it looks pretty friendly. Check it out here:

AVS Return / Warranty Policy
Posted By: aham23 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 12:26 PM
^^^^ i find the same results for most, if not all, the PJs that are calibrated by Jason. I think being able to "plug and play" with your brand new PJ is well worth the $200 bucks. later.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 01:38 PM
 Originally Posted By: aham23
^^^^ i find the same results for most, if not all, the PJs that are calibrated by Jason. I think being able to "plug and play" with your brand new PJ is well worth the $200 bucks. later.


Admittedly, I'm totally on the fence with deciding whether to pay the extra $100. I am without a doubt going to pay the first $100 to make sure there are no convergence issues with the PJ.

For the config, after everyone here saying that you have to do it in your own room, I'm less certain whether the 2nd $100 is worth the money for the calibration before it goes out.

Jason
Posted By: michael_d Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 04:31 PM
When calibrating projectors, you put the meter in the beam path and adjust contrast, brightness, primary and secondary colors to set grey scale. You can do this anywhere and it is well worth $100. You can then find out what additional tweaks are needed for screen offset, which you can do yourself. I calibrated mine with the meter in the light path and did not feel the need to re-do with screen offset and I’m using a grey screen. When you get the projector, you will want to throw up a test pattern with pluge bar and adjust contrast / brightness to your liking. After 500 hours, do it again to compensate for initial buld burn in. You should not need to get back into the RBG adjustment after the initial calibration.
Posted By: Murph Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 06:59 PM
What is the name of the meter you use and what is the cost? I currently only have one friend with a projector but as I and more friends buy in, I can see the feasibility of buying a shared meter.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 07:02 PM
Thanks Mdrew, that's great advice.
Posted By: michael_d Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/12/08 10:14 PM
I use the Eye1 Pro and Calman software. It was about a grand for the package. You can use less expensive meters and get into this for under five hundred. I use the Eye1 Pro because it will also do printer paper profiles and allow me to calibrate my monitor as well as the projector. If you do decide to take the plunge into video calibration, get comfortable. It's a fairly intence learning curve (but we are all 'tweekers' here, so you should be OK).

You'll also need a laptop, and a LOT of patience. That's why I say the $100 is well spent to have someone do this.

Now if you really want to go crazy, you buy an external video processor with CMS and calibrate the VP output per each source.

Link to Calman... http://www.calman.tv/
Posted By: Murph Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/13/08 01:19 PM
Thanks for the info.
Yes, My name is Andrew and I'm a tweakaholic.
- Always wondering if I can do better with my audio/video settings.
- take too long to take a picture, even with a little non-SLR camera.
- Jeep continues to be improved for off road ralleys when really it's my driving skills that need the upgrading.
- My old home was all X-10 automated, just because.
- Bought waxable skis so I can adjust my wax to suite the air/snow temperature when I could have had simple waxless ones.

My sea kayak is my only escape from the addiction. I strive to keep it simple out on the waves. (although I do pack a waterproof GPS if I'm going out in strange waters) but I have yet to take it out of the drysack.)
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/13/08 01:28 PM
Based on the advice here, I bit the bullet yesterday and bought the 1080 UB Pro with full calibration from the guys at AVS. Let the anticipation begin... \:\)
Posted By: michael_d Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/13/08 02:56 PM
Look foward to hearing your full report!

Murph - what about the lawnmower?
Posted By: Murph Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/13/08 04:59 PM
HA, funny you ask. A friend was junking his ride on and it had a beverage holder in it. I saved it from destruction, cut a hole in my rear fender and I now have a beer holder and storage compartment with a sliding cover added in.

I also thought for a split second about welding the rear dif to turn it into a spool for better traction on the hills but then realized I'd probably tear up the grass every time I took a sharp corner. heh heh.
Posted By: jhunt17 Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/16/08 03:32 AM
Ok, I think I have decided on going with the Epson, mostly because of the warranty and the fact that they don't seem to have as many problems as other projectors. Anyway, the next thing is where to buy it. I tried asking this question on AVS, but seem to be getting nowhere with it. Can anybody give me a list of internet authorized epson dealers, that are not avs forum sponsors, projector people, visual apex. Are sites like newegg, tigerdirect, Jr. bhphoto? The reason I ask is I want to use the bill me later or 12 months same as cash. Thanks for the help.
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/16/08 01:54 PM
The Epson has a better warranty than Sanyo's? Sanyo has always has the best warranty in the field, and their 3 day turn around was unique as well. Has this changed?

I've been a long time member of AVS, and used to hang on the projector forums more than Axiom back in the day. Not sure I would go as far to say the Epsons have less issues over other brands, it is probably pretty even across the board. I would also look heavily at the Panny's if you don't want the Sanyo.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/16/08 02:44 PM
I think the deal with the warranty he's referring to is that Epson gives you an extra year warranty on their Pro version (3 years) as opposed to two years on most. I'm not sure about what the Sanyo offers, just guessing based on comparison against some other PJs I've read.
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/16/08 03:16 PM
If you're still interested in opinions on fan/iris noise from the Epson, another one was just posted here on AVS.

1080UB Fan/Iris noise while directly overhead
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/16/08 03:45 PM
Sanyo's default warrany is 3 years, with 3 day turn around and they pay Next Day shipping both ways, so your only out for 3 days if something goes wrong...
Posted By: myrison Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/16/08 03:52 PM
Ok, in that case, I've no idea. \:\)
Posted By: SirQuack Re: Sanyo plv z2000 or Epson 1080ub? - 02/16/08 03:53 PM
I suppose if money is no object, then go for it eh. \:\)
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