Currently, my shortlist for an LCD projector under $3000 is the following. All are similarly priced around the $2600 to 2700 mark.

Panasonic PT-AE2000U
Sanyo PLV-Z2000
Epson Powerlite Home Cinema

The AE2000 wins on paper and also wins in any comparative review I have read. It's also the brightest which is nice as my wife likes a tiny bit of light on and did I mention my food stealing dog who thinks he is Batman when the lights go out?

My mind was pretty made up but finding a place to order it and also retain a simple Warranty for Canada is proving difficult. Many places will ship to Canada but warranty discussions get iffy.

Projector Point, which seems to be a well respected online dealer, will ship to Canada but prefer I use their Canadian affiliate. Paul @ ReelingAround. His web page seems rather Mom & Popish and he hasn't responded to my email inquiry (only 24hrs now) but I can find forum discussions where people were happy with their purchase experiences.

1st question. Anyone dealt with him?

2nd Question. Anyone know a Canadian reseller for the Panny model.

Going to the next two choices, it's a tough call. However, currently Epson.ca (Canadian YAY!)is offering a $300 mail in rebate PLUS a free lamp for their model and I will get the warranty for sure.

I find great comments and reviews on this model as well. It falls a little short number wise on paper compared to the Panny but certainly nobody is complaining about anything about the picture out there.

The $300 dollar rebate plus a free lamp almost has me abandoning the search for the AE2000.

Question 3. Anyone care to comment on the Epson deal verses the slightly better projector but major headache to buy, dilemma?

Both actual experience and just general opinions are both very welcome at this point.

Are you THAT certain he is not?

On a serious note, I do not know any of these answers? But I hope to learn from the other posts!

I will go into projectors at some point.

Ah, the numbers game.

My 3 year old Epson HomeLite 10 max brightness is 1000 lumens and even watching football on a summer afternoon with a 100x80 normal curtained window I'd still only be on the second brightest setting (700 lumens?).

Contrast ratio is almost a meaningless stat as they simply change the testing criteria whenever they want to get a higher number. Mine is 700:1; the new 1080 is 12000:1 (50,000:1 "dynamic" for the UB) and the Panny is 16000:1. I have seen a projector at 2000:1 (not side by side) and didn't notice any added goodness for almost triple the contrast. So, when talking the more modest percentage difference at the much "higher" level are you gonna see a difference? Maybe; I haven't seen either one. I do know that I am currently quite satisfied with my projector and won't be upgrading until my second bulb goes (still on the first bulb @3400 hrs).

The free lamp also shaves $429 off the six year price of the projector.

I'm also a big fan of anything easy. A couple of clicks and you're done direct from Epson. No one else to deal with.

Speaking of fans, apparently the Epson is a bit louder in the brighter settings. If you are gonna be in a brightly lit room using max settings this could be really irritating. As mine is almost always in Theatre Black it isn't much of an issue. I didn't see a dB rating on the Epson page but my fan vol is 29dB on a shelf 4' over my head. It isn't audible when watching anything unless the scene is really quiet.

I have the PT-AE1000U that I got from projectorpeople.com. I hadn't even had it installed yet when the PT-AE2000U came out. I'm currently very happy with the 1000U. The picture seems pretty darn good to me. I'm not sure what changes were made to the 2000U, but if Panasonic made improvements over the 1000U then the 2000U must be pretty good too. I have not seen the other projectors mentioned but with the experience I've had so far with the 1000U, I'd buy another Panasonic if I had to do it all over again.

I have extensively researched the differences between the Panny and the Epson and I think in general you'll find that both are very good and well reviewed. I've read as many reviews that rate the Epson higher than the Panny as the other way around, so for me it came down to a couple of things, from which I had to choose the lesser of two evils.

1) The Panasonic has a LOT of reports on AVS forums about people getting nasty irreversible dust blobs in their projector. This makes me nervous.

2) The Epson is reported as having higher fan noise (albeit only slightly higher). This to me is annoying, but after asking directly on a number of forums, the consensus seems to be that unless your in high altitude, the noise is there, but almost inaudible in most situations other than very quiet movie scenes (if the projector is near your viewing position).

3) This really wasn't a huge factor for me, but the Epson is a little more flexible with greater zoom range and offset capabilities for tough mount positions.

For me, I chose dealing with #2 over #1 as #1 scared me more... I didn't obsess about the picture quality reviews because they were all SO similar. I figured I'd be blown away with picture quality either way. (Mine arrives in the next week or two)

If you end up wanting to get this projector, let me know, I got a great deal from AVS Forum and would be happy to give you the info to get the same deal.

A great review, I think the best I found, is the one here:
Art's Epson 1080 UB Review

Note this is for the Home version, which is the same PJ in a different housing (black vs. white).

This section is by far the most applicable:



Have fun shopping. I think you'll be very happy either way.

Spare bulb is a must! I had a PANNY 700 and the bulb lasted 200 hours! Currently have 3000 hours on new one (knock on wood)!

Im going DLP for my next projector! I was a big LCD supporter but can now always find VB on all units!

Thanks for the advice folks. The Epson is starting to sound like too good a deal to pass up. Also, 3 business days have passed and no response from the Canadian Affiliate for the Panny. I order lots of stuff across the border but for expensive electronics, but since he is now out, I don't want to get into any funny questions around warranty. Warranty situations can be tough enough in the best of conditions.

My room will be totally light controlled so the reviews on the lumen counts are good on all the models I looked at. I am aware contrast numbers between two different manufacturers can mean nothing, so I went looking for direct comparison reviews over the weekend and found enough that I could be happy with both.

The tiny bit of noise is a factor for me but I think calling it the lesser of two evils is appropriate.

Looks like I have been talked into a decision.

Also, I went to local retailers to see if they could bring in the Panny and a place I respect for their honesty looked it up via their supplier even though it wasn't a normal model for them. The price was outlandish. It would be unprofessional to tell you the list price since they were kind enough to show me on the screen but needless to say, it was close to double American pricing. No surprise as I had read similar comments on the forums.

The only one coming close to American pricing on this unit is the Projector Point affiliate but he is either on vacation or is as casual as his web page suggests. Perhaps he is busy cleaning dust balls.

Thanks again and let their be light!!!!

Good news! I just ordered mine last week and with luck it should arrive by the end of this week or early next. This + the anticipation of waiting for my new Axiom system is slowly killing me.

Let us know what you think once you get it in.

I also am not far from purchasing a projector and was also looking at the panny but the epson also looks good so I'm in the same delema. let us know how the new PJ looks when you get it.

Ever consider buying used?

Good news here for those worried about fan noise with the Epson.

Comments on Fan Noise from 1080UB User

You know, of the ones you listed I was hoping more people had an opinion on the Sanyo. This price has been tugging at my coat for the last week: http://www.preferredphoto.com/viewproduct.aspx?ID=3711838&l=Froogle

I have only owned Sanyo's and most likely will own the 1080p version at some point. I have the z2 and it has been flawless. I know many people with the z3-z5's and they have been totally happy as well. For the most part the Sanyo's have had the best industry warranty standard of 3 years with 3 day turn around if needed. That price is pretty good in my opinion.

I didn't realize this myself before I made the purchase on the Epson, but they actually have an overnight replacement policy for any defect under warranty, so I now understand what jhunt was talking about in this thread.

Either way, pretty darn good, and yes, that price is unreal.

I saw a rather iffy review on cnet of the Sanyo, talking about the colors being off. ( http://reviews.cnet.com/home-theater-projectors/sanyo-plv-z2000/4505-7858_7-32727075.html )

But other reviews seem to like it a lot more. (and $1400 seems like a great deal)

Yep, there are always 2 sides to every issue, just like around here. Every projector out there has great and not-so-great reviews and threads by people. Overall, Sanyo has been a stellar projector, clear back in the days of the Z1 until now.

I bought my AE2000 from http://www.quebecacoustic.com

I got a great price and excellent service with a full Canadian warrenty. And when it comes time to upgrade again, I'll probably go back to them.

I love my AE2000. It's a great machine with lots of features that will keep you busy for a long time--it's also very easy to use. I think the Epson is also a great projector, but the AE2000 had more of the features I was looking for. I'm sure you'd be happy with eaither.

2 things I wish the Epson had are vertical stretch to be able to use it with an anamorphic lens and most importantly to me lens shift and focus from the remote (as the Panny has), I find that so practical for lazy people like me, it also makes it easier to see what I'm doing without having to go back and forth between the screen and pj. If I were planning on upgrading my pj right now I would have a hard time deciding which one to get... They both have features I desire.

I'm still thinking about getting the Sanyo at that 1400 price, but don't REALLY have the room. (though am considering finding a roll down screen so maybe I could.)

This is probably some sort of sickness I have.

If the Epson does not have lens shift or the ability to vertically stretch, than it is out for me as an option.

Just to clarify, the Epson has 97% vertical shift (when not shifted horizontally, the more you shift horizontally, the less you can shift vertically, etc.). It is one of the most flexible PJ's I found in that regard. However, this is manual, not automatic, from the remote which for some folks is a huge PITA.

It's correct that it will not work with an anamorphic lens, which in my HT wasn't an issue. For some though, agreed, it's a deal killer.

what he said.

Check out this site. Its how i learned about projectors!

http://www.bigscreenforums.com/

projector central is the best in my opinion, expert reviews and not forum opinion.

And, to be fair... now some bad news on the fan: Annoying Fan Noise - 1080UB

Someday soon.... I know mine will arrive and I can give you my own opinion... The wait is unbearable!

Remote focus is cool, but also an aggravation because it's an exercise in patience to get it right. I'd prefer to have manual focus and use binoculars.

Thanks folks,
Been away for a few days so just coming back and reading the great discussion. Thanks for the hint on Quebec Acoustics. I gave them a call and I got a very good impression from them. I was mainly asking about the Panasonic but asked about the Epson as well. They were offering the $300 rebate but not the extra bulb. I find that odd as usually manufacturer direct outlets try to never undersell their resellers.

The Epson UB model seems the way to go but if I get the regular 1080, it is still a great projector and I might have some money left to invest in a new couch/seating. Otherwise I'll be sitting in a very uncomfortable old couch for 1st row and second row will have to come later.

I can't remember if I ever posted my sob story, but we lost a bunch of furniture and stuff in storage to mold the fall before last, just before our new house was built. (Note to others: Most insurance policies do not cover mold.) We bought replacement living room furniture but we are operating on an old loaner in our TV room at the moment.

As for projector noise, I think I'll be OK with it. My understanding is that in low mode, it is actually pretty quiet. My room is totally light controlled and the projector is naturally very bright so I expect to be in low mode 90% of the time. Exceptions might be during Superbowls, Grey and Stanley Cups. I expect human created, ambient noise to be way above the projector's levels during those times.

I think I am pretty much sold on being able to get a top 3 projector in it's class for a net cost of just under 2k after factoring in the rebate and the spare bulb. Having a spare bulb around seems like a good idea.

The UB is definately the one I'd recommend to friends but saving 1000 bucks and still being confident that I will be happy in the end, works a lot better for me.

NEXT QUESTION:
I am trying really hard to buy some product at a local AV shop that I continually find to be not only helpful but also honest, even if when it means they might lose a sale.

They used to be a Draper dealer for screens but moved to Mustang as they thought that Draper quality was good but not matching it's premium price tag. Now they sell Mustang. They can give me a really good deal on a Mustang 106" Electric.

I was more interested in a fixed frame but at $345 I'm tempted. However, I seen a few posts about Mustang screens letting some light bleed through, thus losing some color depth. When I asked them about this, he said that early model Mustangs and all their fixed screens were acoustically transparent materials, thus naturally let a tiny amount of light bleed through the porous material. He doesn't think the Electric drop model is an acoustic transparent screen but is going to double check. I have no use for an acoustically transparent screen at this time

? = Anybody have any personal experience with Mustang and anybody have screen movement issues with a pull down model. I recognize Mustang is not top of the line but this is a budget room so starter equipment is fine.

In fact, I read a lot of good things about using a 50-80 $ piece of specific brand and color Laminate. I'd really love to give my local shop some business but if Mustang doesn't work out, I might just try the laminate. I read posts where folks used actual meters to measure light reflection and color and results were as favorable as many screens on the market today.

Sorry, long post.

As I understand it the $300 and free bulb are a mail in rebate direct from Epson. You'd pay full price up front, send in the coupon, UPC etc, and they'd send you the rebate check and bulb later. If the dealer is just giving you the $300 off the top then it's a different deal (not sure what they'd be doing with the "coupon").

As with computer systems, the vitally important yet often overlooked component is seating. If you are uncomfortable it doesn't matter how nice the picture is, you'll be unhappy. A nicer couch with a marginally "inferior" projector will garner more satisfaction.

Not much I can say about screens. I'm still using the generic white wall in the living room. Still quite satisfied with the picture, although I imagine I'll be using a proper screen whenever I upgrade to HD.

Some fine print from Epson:

Claims will not be accepted if receipt shows retailer deducted the rebate amount at the time of purchase. Some retailers may require use of their own in-store coupon to claim this rebate; please check your receipt or ask the retailer at time of purchase.

This offer is not valid for purchases made in store or online at Best Buy, Future Shop, Staples Business Depot or at any educational institution.

If he's just cutting the price up front, you'd be out the price of a spare bulb. Assuming, that is, that Epson doesn't renege on the mail-in.

Sorry I was not specific. The retailers rebate for 300 was indeed of the mail in variety, not off the top. Just found it odd he wasn't aware of the free bulb. In hindsight, I wonder if he wasn't accidentally looking at the rebate for the UB model which is 200 but no bulb. His pricing seemed bang on though.

Murph, my advice regarding screens is to pay a little extra to get what you want. No matter how good a projector you have is, a poor screen will make your image look like garbage. I've found most of the cheaper screens have surfaces that add sparkles to your image. Some people like that, but most do not. And with any pull-down screen, manual or electric, there seems to be issues with keeping the image flat and not having the screen warp due to tension issues. Only the most expensive screens have fancy ways of dealing with this. If you have the space, go with a fixed screen. After a couple tries, I chose a Carada screen. It's great and the only part of my home theatre that won't need to be replaced unless it's damaged.

Thanks, that pretty much reinforces what I have been reading. However, I don't make any decisions anymore without consulting Axiomites. There is a lot more lack of bias in this group than any other I read or participate in.

I'm not sure I disagree because I don't have my screen yet, but I'm going to at least try the $10 laminate solution before I blow another grand on a screen...

I'm pretty sure I'll end up there too, but for $10, I see very little downside, especially considering it is returnable.

Murph, I purchased some good screen material on ebay (i did lots of research) and built a frame out of 1x4 wood. Covered it with black material from Fabricland. Then stapled the material to the back of the frame. The whole thing cost me under 100 bucks and it looks great. Everyone who comes in and sees it are very impressed.

I have never compared it to a brand name screen costing much more. but I don't feel its lacking at all.

If you are handy, it's a cheap way to go.

Just some food for thought.

paul

I did pretty much the same thing, looks good and was cheap!

Can you remember what you used for screen material. A few screen manufacturers have separate pricing for just material but it is not a whole lot cheaper by the time you factor in wood, corner braces, black frame wrap, etc. Some more DIY style materials are much cheaper of course.

I'm handy enough to easily build one but I'm getting too caught up in choosing the screen material. I am reading a lot more good things about Wilsonart, Designer White, Laminate. I wish I could re-find the AVS or Projector Central post where somebody measured reflected light and color results with a meter and found it be as good or better than many screens, but here is one link with some screen shot comparisons to Klitz2, a common painting material.

Wilsonart Designer White No local pricing yet but I figure 50$ to $80 for the laminate and requires nothing more than Windex to keep clean.

Canadian prices for a white 106" 'fixed' screen from various makes/models from 7 different sources so far, basically start at $600.

Below are some examples of lowest cost found per a particular screen manufacturer. I didn't add the resellers name as I'm unsure about forum rules re. posting comparative shopping data and I'm too lazy to look for it. I didn't do a lot of looking for US prices.

If this is helpful, especially for other Canadians, feel free to PM me for the vendor info.

Carada = 616
Grandview = 599
Draper = 639
Da-Lite = 689
Elite = 487 (Grey only, now word back if they even carry white)
Local, Mustang = 385 (some possible bad reviews & is Electric Drop)

US Pricing
- Found a sale on an Elite for 423 (read some bad Elite reviews.)
- Tribal, Direct from Tribal= 581 (I will mention these guys because they have been very helpful in discussing my required screen color, reflection ratios and such for my room, projector and distance.)

I ordered some fabric from the ebay store of Dazian Fabrics. I think Randy used the same kind of fabric.

I can't remember how much I paid for it, but I know it was definitely less than $100

Elite does make white screens in most of their lines. I think you're looking for fixed screen, and if so, they carry white. Check this link here for an example:

Projector People Elite Fixed Screens

Thanks I will look into Dazian Fabrics.

I was actually aware Elite made white screens. I just meant that this particular Canadian reseller did not have a price listing for the white version of the product. I included it anyways just to show the price discrepency compared to the other products.

Thanks for the link though. I checked it out. $395 but I'd have to adjust to Canadian, Shipping and duty. Still a competitive option.

You ought to give Jason Turk a call at AVS. I paid about half of MSRP on my Stewart screen. I know AVS sells many other brands as well. Day Light's high power is supposed to one heck of a screen.

I agree, the guys at AVS are great. I got a lot of my HT stuff from them and they were really easy to work with and provided a lot of value in picking the right equipment.

On the screens that I priced, they were 5-10% higher than the link I posted above. However, I'd feel better buying from them as I know they'd stand behind it. If cost is the #1 concern though, projectorpeople looks like a good option too.

More options. I love it. Thanks

For anyone else following this thread in hopes of making a similar decision, I found the post where a gentleman did some actual testing of Wilsonart Laminate vs. some screen materials.

Like anything you read on the internet, it can't be confirmed and thus must be taken with a grain of salt. However, he seems to be pretty neutral and not trying to sell anything. I'm still undecided but if this is good data, it might be the hidden gem for budget home theaters.

The link = Material comparisons

Some highlights regarding Wilsonart from his comparison post, for those who don't want to look at graphs.....

- "The next graph is the color data of the tested Wilsonart laminates also converted to their RGB values. What was found were colors that matched the color curves of the manufactured screens."

- "Wilsonart Designer White follows the gain curve of a StudioTek 130 commercial screen quite well. Designer White has a gain of 1.24 as compared to the 1.3 of the more expensive StudioTek Screen."

- Compared to Formica, another common DIY material.
"1 Formica is slightly more expensive....
2 Formica may have very similar colors, but its surface is much smoother. This can contribute to hot spotting as a screen material."


I still don't know where I'm headed but I'm enjoying the discussion and thought I would add in the data I have found to help others.