I've been seriously considering getting the new 875 from Onkyo, as it has all the features I'm looking for. Most importantly, the Reon uprez for video, the ability to decode all the new audio from Blu-Ray disc, and lastly the ability to decode SACD from my PS3.

BUT...I've been hearing more and more people say they've been having trouble with the new Onkyo receivers.

Where does that leave me? Anything else out there have the Reon uprez chip? (and cost about the same as the 875?)

Craig, I've been on the receiver hunt, too. As attractive as the Onkyos seem to be price/performance wise there does seem to be some bugs.

I believe the 875 is the only thing in its price bracket that features the Reon chip.

I took a look at everything I'll hook up to the new receiver and came to the decision that I don't need a video processor--just something to pass the signal through. All my components are pretty much HMDI--Xbox 360, PS3, and Toshiba XA2 (which upconverts just fine with its own Reon).

There may be more choices in receivers as the year goes on. It's hard to wait, though.

If you're set on Reon, your next option is the S/N 972. It may not be out till June though. I'd hold off and see how the 972 performs and buy it from Axiom. If you buy it through Axiom, you will have the piece of mind that they'll take care of you should the unit self destruct.

I'm not in a hurry. That always helps. As much as I love the idea of buying all my gear from Axiom...that 972 is likely going to be about $2000. That's nearly double the price of the Onkyo.

It's really tempting to pick up an Onkyo because of the great pricing right now.

Be aware that Onkyo's tend to get very hot when running and they are a little larger than a lot of receivers out there. Because my shelf space was limited, those two factors made me choose a Denon 3808 and I am completely happy with my choice.

That's one of the things that bothers me about my HK 7200--it heats up my room. I have an open rack for it, but it's no fun cranking up a movie in the summer. Yuck.

Yeah, the Denon 3808 will probably be my choice.

I also have an HK receiver/furnace...man that sucker gets hot. I noticed it has a small PC fan inside, but I've had it up to egg-frying temps and never been able to get it to kick in. It just seems to like to sit and smoulder...

Do the Denon's run cooler? and technically speaking, is a cooler-running receiver more efficient? (I'm thinking of that stat that says a lightbulb gives of 95% of its energy as heat and 5% as light, and wondering if the same thing applies here...)

My Denon runs warm, but not hot. It's in a wood cabinet my wife and I built. There's only about half an inch of space on each side, 5 in back, and 4 up top. Even when running a 7.1 set-up it will only get about 50 degrees Celsius inside the cabinet, but I installed a fan I bought off eBay to make sure there was some air movement around the thing. I was told by a respectable dealer that only if the AVR shut off on it's own or was too hot to touch that it was running to hot.

my denon 3808 is sitting on the top shelf of an omnimount stand and it is completely open on all sides and the top.

Even if it runs for hours I can walk up and put my hand on the top and it barely even feels warm at all.

It seems that the 3808 is the closest competitor to Onkyo's 875. Other than missing the Reon uprezing, are there any other notable differences between the two? Feature-wise I mean, not the stability/heat issues.

I've got a 905 set to arrive on Monday, so will see how it goes.

Last correspondence I saw from an S/N official said target MSRP is $1500. I have the brochure as a PFD. If you want it, PM me your email.

The Denon is network capable and you can stream directly to it from any computer on your network, no media adapters necessary. The network ability makes firmware updates very easy and allows you to listen to internet radio. The 3808 also has a very nice GUI to make setup and adjustments easier. I don't know if the Onkyo has the netowrking ability but I think that is the best part of the 3808 and as it has been mentioned it is rock solid.

That Onkyo doesn't have the networking ability. When I chose the 3808 I figured the networking ability was a fairly even trade for the lack of video chip (as I love the upgradability the PS3 has over the net, and know I'll use the streaming audio), but each person places a different priority on features. The nail in the coffin in my short-lived quest to get the 875 was when I read about all of the problems it had with lip synch and audio drop outs, especially with the DirecTV HR-20 HD DVR, which is the setup I have.

With that DVR, tons of people are reporting that every time you FF, RW, pause, etc., you get a 3-10 second audio drop out as it readjusts to the Dolby output from the DVR. I just could not imagine living with this after spending that kind of money. Then I said to myself, well, maybe a firmware upgrade would fix it before too long... then I realized that because it had no networking, updating the firmware would be a total pain... and that, naturally, led me to the 3808, which arrives at my house tomorrow!

Can you completely disable upconverting on the 3808? I don't want the AVR to touch the video since I have Toshiba XA2 and BD-P1400. Xbox360/PS3 doesn't require any upconverting either.

I may have to get yet another AVR and I'm thinking maybe I'll try out the Denon this time.

Thanks

Yes, you can just have the video pass through.

Can't you just wire it so only audio goes thru the receiver? Or is the TV missing some connections to have video go to it directly?

I can not see why you would want to run the audio to the receiver and run the video to the tv. The denon has a 'pass through' option so that it does not touch the video signal. Having 8 video connections come into the receiver and the only 1 hdmi going from the receiver to the tv is way too conveinent.

Also as I mentioned before this allows you to leave the tv on one input at all times, and just change the input on the receiver to switch components.

You can turn on or off upconversion for each input separately on the 3808. I have it set to off for Blu-ray, HD-DVD and DVD, and set to on for my Xbox 360. The only thing it does for inputs set to off is overlay the OSD when called upon.

And I think that can be turned off too.

You could but for the HD audio signals it is necessary to have it fed to the receiver through HDMI and then on to the TV.

My receiver doesn't have HDMI, so I have to hook the cable box directly to the TV, which is probably why I am thinking of it this way.

Thanks everyone for your input (on the video passthrough question)

Now, I'm 51% Denon and 49% Marantz 8002! Damn, I just went through this about a month ago, and here I am again. Good problem to have I suppose.

Zarak,
With HDMI, it's not so easy to separate the audio from the video. For example, HDMI may figure out that the TV is only capable of 2 channel audio. Changing/Not Changing the tv input isn't that big of a deal for me since I have an MX900 URC remote.

Just looked through the brochure for the Sherwood Newcastle R-972...that sure looks like a winner. The only thing I don't see in the specs is whether or not is can decode/playback multi-channel SACD via HDMI. Anyone know?

Call Axiom and ask. Since they may be carrying that model they might be privvy to the nuts and bolts.

I know that the 875 can, but it uses bistream instead of PCM or vice versa, so you can't just flip between DVD-A and SACD by switching discs.

Wow - hard to believe you aren't already listening to your new 3808 (like I am ).

I smell a little paralysis by analysis on your breath.

Relative to the video passthrough - the Denon's flexibility with settings is incredible.

Think about this. I enjoy the hunt for new gear as much as anybody and pulling the trigger is always a bit difficult. Once you get to a point where the receivers are about equal in specs, price, capabilities, how much of a mistake can you really make? Pick one and order it. You are losing "enjoyment time".

The 972 is only rated at 100 wpc versus the 130 wpc for the denon 3808.

130 wpc is supposedly a pretty conservative number, at least according to a review I read at audioholics for a different denon 08 unit.

That may not be a huge difference but I thought it was worth mentioning at least.

I am quite sure the power from a S/N is as good as a Denon or any other quality receiver. The only problem with any of the new Sherwoods is that no one knows when they will be released as they have been pushing them back for almost a year now.

I've heard that Sherwood has been building the new Denon's. This explains the ongoing delays with their own models.

Well that depends.

HDMI spec 1.2 allows for M-channel SACD, so you are covered, sorta. The sorta is whether the unit accepts PCM or DSD or both. DSD is not a widely supported format, but there are currently only two SACD players available that output DSD over HDMI. One is the Oppo 980, the other is a Pioneer unit that is not available in North America. All other SACD players decode DSD to M-channel PCM.

I'd be using my PS3 to playback everything. DVD, Blu-Ray, CD, MP3, and SACD.

How would that explain the delays? The Denon's are out on time and functioning great. They would put another brand ahead of their own?

I have heard rumors Sherwood apparently is struggling with chip acquisition and performance/mating issues of those chips. I think they looked at Onkyo and learned about some of their minor issues and are trying to rectify them before putting out anything.

Actually, I went through my paralysis via analysis about a month or so ago. I pulled the trigger on an 8002 (already have 8001) due to comfort factor with Marantz. Now I need another one and here I am again. The *only* thing that bothers me about the Marantz is the lack of an Ethernet port for FW upgrades. I heard they may allow end users to upgrade via the serial port, but I just got an email from Marantz stating otherwise.

I guess you are right about pulling the trigger. They are similar enough. I am curious about the professional version of Audyssey available on the Denon unit. Marantz only supports end user version.

Thanks everyone.

So Spiff, what did you end up choosing? Or still deciding? I'm curious since I'm scoping out the options now, and facing the same questions/choices.

Since the advantage most touted on the Onkyo is the video upscaling via Reon chip, has anyone actually seen it? Anyone able to provide a side by side comparison for a SD source?

I'm getting a projector, and most of the viewing will be HD, but there will be the occasional SD event (hard to find college lacrosse in HD until the championship weekend!).

Rich

Is the occasional viewing in SD worth losing the GUI, netowrk connectivity and being able to drive the M80s with out heat issues?

I don't know -- anyone seen them side-by-side?

I've never worked with the GUI, so don't know. Not using 80s, but do have other 4 ohm speakers that might be an issue if I weren't using an external amp for them. So it's really the network connectivity that feels like a big one to me right now.

Rich

Wow - it's going to take you three days to die a sudden death!

You've GOT to pick one soon -- Jack is really old and wants to see your choice.

Absolutely, that's how it works.

They have to satisfy their OEM agreements before getting our their next gen; that's why they are always behind in generations timewise, but put a little extra engineering into their name brand.