So I took my girlfriend to get her windows tinted today and while we were waiting I just so happened to stumble into the home theater section of my local audio advice (a small "high end" audio store for both home and car audio).

They let me audition the Jl Audio Gotham

This thing is 3800 watts of pure power. I watched some dolby digital scenes I had from a sampler DVD... we watched some clips from monsters, LOTR, u571. We also watched some dolby truehd clips from the spider man 3 bluray.

HOLY CRAP THIS SUB IS AMAZING. During the spider man 3 scene when the guy is in the chamber turning into sand it felt like a ninja came up and was repeatedly drop kicking me in the chest. I have never felt LFE like i did with this sub. This was by far the best sub I have ever heard, but who would expect any less weighing in at 360+ pounds and sporting 3800 watts all for the incredibly steep price of $11,000.

That being said- we were in a pretty small room that was closed off, and I was pretty close to the sub.

The 13" JL audio fathom was a good sub too- but not nearly as impressive. It was a very small sub (looked to by a good deal smaller than the ep 500.)

I would give it a slight edge over my ep500, but not by much. And I would be willing to bet that if I placed my ep500 next to it in such a small sealed off room it would perform just as well as the f113 fathom. (the fathom is a whopping $3500 as well)


Anyway- just thought I'd mention that if anyone was looking to spend $11,000 on a subwoofer the gotham is one hell of a sub.

Now where did I put all of my loose change....

P.S.- they had some dynaudio speakers hooked up that were pretty impressive too... but probably very pricey

How did they power it at 3800 Watts? Dual circuits or did it come with its own 100 GigaFarad capacitor bank?

I've only once felt nauseating, chest-pounding bass. It was at a Trooper concert at the Deerfoot Inn and Casino in Calgary. Although I loved the party and music, after a half hour we had to leave because my heart wasn't feeling right. What's very surprising is that it didn't bother my wife at all. Yet, she rants every time I turn the bass up on my system.

Jason,

Maybe you should order up one of these so that we can compare it against the ED beastie.

He can trade in his car as a downpayment.

"The Gotham G231 has two 13.5-inch drivers that each have 4 inches of total travel. The case is made from super-thick (1.1+ inches) fiberglass and houses a Class D 3800 watt amplifier."

I have to draw the line at stuff I can't physically move.

I have dual F113's in my HT and had an EP600 a while back. I respectfully disagree regarding your assessment of the Fathom. Perhaps you were confused by the small size. Now you know how your girlfriend feels.

or perhaps you were confused because you feel like an asshole for spending $7000 on an "ok" pair of subs.

not to mention that your comment is very, very rude.

take your comments to another forum, or at least someone elses thread.

Simply put- the fathom sounds weak when compared to the gotham. The fathom did not sound that much better to me than my ep500- certainly not worth 3.5 times the price. I was only going off of movie clips that I am very familiar with at home- so this is just an opinion not some type of double blind scientific experiment. We are each entitled to our own opinion- so next time you "respectfully disagree" please do so without a rude ass comment.

My apologies, I tried to remove my "rude a$$" comment but apparently, my edit time window had expired. I will move on as requested.

its cool man, I just thought it was a little uncalled for.

I like the fathom- I just don't feel like it's quite worth the price tag IMO.

Your input on the a1400recently has brought up some good discussion so I am sure others appreciate that.

My apologies as well, I am sure dual f113 sound fantastic.

feel free to stick around- don't let me be the one to run you off.. besides- my girlfriend admitted she was a bit confused after she got back from visiting you

It always comes down to the best that you can afford or are willing to to spend. I personally haven't heard the money difference between my M80s and any of the Focal's($5000+) or Paradigms 100's etc., I have listened to, so I am happy and that is all that matters.

I am reserving judgment on the subs, I am still trying to decide if I want to order in the PB13- Ultra just to see if it is twice as good as the PB12- NSD, since it is twice the cost or as Mojo said bring in the eD monster size subs. I know the PB12 is way better than the Velodyne I brought home for testing and the SVS is 2/3 the retail cost. I think at some point there is diminishing returns on the investment and as with most things, even that is up to personal choices and values.

I would like to see someone compare the gotham to the ED sub

I could have swore I heard you say that you were the one going to do that

Lets see.. you can get 5 ED subs for 11,000 dollars, so to be fair you would need to compare 5 ED subs to one gotham right?





On a side note- a guy at AVSforum wrote this:

"As it will end,dual f113 up front with the Gotham and dual f112 in the rear. Now the wait for the Gotham."

his signature says this:
"Over 3600lbs of subwoofers , I declare my place the sub human domain. Sanity does not live here anymore. "

I just received my PB13 ultra yesterday. It is way better than my PB12+. I wish I had other subs to compare it to. I have heard legacy audio's subs and I would say the pb13 is as articulate and more powerful. I have heard that the EP500 sounds like the baby brother to the pb13 ultra I would love to compare them.

The Darla tap scene from Nemo shakes my whole house with some headroom to spare. It is very clean and fast for music also. I think I will keep this one for several years.

The Darla tap scene from Nemo with the 600 shakes my whole house too and if I turn it up high enough, the windows upstairs rattle.

Now as for "fast", this is where I have the big issue with the 600. The 350v3 appears to be "faster".

Illinois is too far for me to lug my 600 to your place but you're welcome to bring your PB13 ultra here .

I think I might buy or at least try out the 350v3 to compare the sound quality to the pb13. I wish I could lug this 155lb monster up there my neighbor and I struggled to get it out of the box. I would love to hear the 600, PB12-NSD or anything HSU has to offer. I went round and round about which sub(s)to get.

You maybe a little far for me to travel, Sirqack is closer though and he has the right subs to compare also.

True. I think you should leave for your trip to Randy's now 'cause we're all in suspense .

I had the darla tap scene on my demo disk but I didn't get around to playing it on the gotham... I had very little time and too many scenes to choose from

Well...when are you going back then?

These forums are so educational!

In this thread alone, I learned that you can insult a man's penis size..... but not the size of his subwoofer.... and that subs are now rated not by how much bass they produce in a listening room, but what's the furthest "rattle point" AWAY from the listening room!

Damn.... I gotsta order me some serious subbage!

I wonder how the Elemental Design A7 - 900 would do against the Gotham. It beats it in the weight catagory. Having dual 18" woofers means that it probably has more slam vs the dual 13" in the Gotham. But the amp in the ED isn't as large as in the Gotham. Furthermore, having the 18" woofers might make it so that it doesn't have as much bass definition. It would be a nice shootout though. I am definitely keeping an eye on the ED.

- Nick

According to what I've heard and read, the ED not only has tons of slams but also extremely good definition.

I think this is the same driver that they use in the gotham and fathom models:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECnRIeSab_o&feature=related.

The material surrounding the driver allows for extreme movement... so it pushes a ton of air.

Anyway- I am glad I am happy with ym ep500 (maybe i will add a second) and don't feel the need to drop 11k on a sub. Of course If I just had it to blow... that thing looks really friggin cool

With extreme movement like that, how does one control transient response?

Hmmm...I wonder if anyone has experimented with dual, independent drivers - one for compression and the other for rarefaction.

The Gotham is a lot like the sub that JL targeted as it’s main competition, the Velo Sig 1812. I have heard both now and say can they really are terrific looking and sounding subs that I can happily live without. We all make our own value determinations and for me those two (and several others) are over the top (sorta like Wilson Speakers).
I have gone through a lot of subs (12 I think) in the last few years. After the EP600 (which I loved by the way) I have had dual Velo DD18’s and now dual F113’s. I even had dual SVS PB13’s in for an informal shootout in my HT room last fall. The room is relatively large (3600 cf) and the room before this one was the same size but with large openings to the rest of the house. I was looking for the pressurized bass that I heard so many speak of. What I have now sub and speaker wise is probably about as good as it is going to get in my room.
This is a very subjective hobby and the Axiom subs are excellent. I am sure that I would be just as content with dual EP500’s or 600’s in my HT. They play very clean and can’t be over driven not to mention much better looking than the ED and Epik subs.

Yes, I believe the Gotham uses the same drivers as the W7 series. In the car audio world, the W7 series has been one of the top designs for years now. I've been running a 10W7 with a JL 500/1 amp for about five years. It sounds every bit as good as the day I installed it, and I've certainly put it through it's paces. Though I feel the JL home theatre subs a bit pricey, I would love to hear the Gotham sometime.

Yes, Mark, but for what the Gotham costs, you could reduce the suckage of your room considerably.

The driver in the Gotham and Fathom subs is based upon the W7 but they tweaked it for the Home Theatre market. They spent a lot of time on the engineering of their subs and it shows. It took JL two plus years from the initial unveiling of a prototype at CES to get the Fathom to Market and another year before they started selling Gothams. They (JL) told me that I would have better performance from dual F113's than a single Gotham. They are now stating the Gotham will do a bit better but the differences are small. BTW it is not difficult to find a pair of f113's for $5K. Not cheap but not too far from most of the competition and a lot smaller (if that matters to you). Ironically, I bought my f113's when my theatre was in the family room and I wanted to hide them under some end tables. Actually did this but then built out a new HT room where the sub size dosen't really matter . Who knows what the future holds?

here is a pic of the Fathoms and my receintly painted HT.

Here is a better pic showing the new room color


And the Revels with the A1400-8 in the cabinet (note blue light)

Very nice!

I feel sorry for the person who sits on the bean bag between the two subs!

Are you kidding, best seat in the house.

You need someone on that chair to keep the beans from rattling.

Special, no-rattle beans

Very nice looking room.

That's nuthin'! When I was in the Army, I fell asleep between two M2 50-caliber machines guns firing away! I had a crew to my left, and another to my right. Not more than 10' away. How I slept, I don't know, but I did!

Nice looking room though. I wonder if the subs would be better if not facing in the same direction. I thought sides of the room were more ideal.

OK, you get the prize for that one . Hows your hearing these days?



There isn't enough space on the other side of the room for a sub without them being quite a bit offset. The subs mid-wall opposite sides might be the best location but I will never know. I have tried both in front, one in front, one in back, both in back and the current location and this has been the best over all for FR and impact bass (especially for the bean bag seat ) Actually, the bean bag only gets used occasionally and is moved out into the room. It is a favorite kid spot.

I agree - very nice looking room there! I've had a great experience with the JL car audio line (their amps included), so I will have to check out their HT line at some time. I'm certainly happy with my EP600, but I'm one of the old school bassheads and can't get enough.

A couple questions - What kind of wall treatments are you using? Also, is your entertainment unit from Salamander?

Thanks, JL does make some nice woofers. As usual with audio, it comes down to the subjective stuff, personal preference and budget.

The acoustic panels and bass traps are from GIK Acoustics. The cabinet is a Bello.

Why I'm lobbying for the A1400-8. It also didn't help when I pulled my ear plugs out on the grenade range to see how loud it "really" was. It was loud. I think I did some real damage that day.



Hmm, I see you have the GIK Acoustics traps. I need to get some for my brother-in-law's basement. I'll give them a call. Thanks for the tip.

Funny you say that... if you feel sorry for the person sitting there, how about the kid in the car seat in this rumble-machine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO79hmdVO7Q&NR=1

I saw this on youtube when watching the link to the other W7 video.... notice at about 7 or 8 seconds when the camera pans the backseat... a child seat! People are crazy.

I saw that one too... poor kid!

or how about this poor guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlYAm2cmPEg&feature=related

I love your paint by the way... we're trying to find a good brown/"chocolate" color for ours now... What color/brand did you use?

Thanks!

We used the new Greeguard Freshaire paint with no VOC’s so no fumes and quick dry. The color is called "Sacred Soil". Great stuff but if you have young kids with sticky fingers on the walls ... skip it.