Doing some research for my cousin who is buying a new house in a few months and needs a complete system. He is considering a projector instead of a tv. He does 70% movies, 30% tv, and a combined total of about 15 hours a week.

Budget is about 3K to 4K for the projector and about 2K for the screen.

Screen size is unknowned at this point.. but problably in the 70 to 80inch range.

Recommendations appreciated.

I've already told him his audio system is going to be Epic 80/500.. that's non negotiable

Looking at HK, Marantz, Onkyo as possible receiver..maybe Yamy or Denon..not sure.

But I really need help with the projector as I don't know much about them, or installing them etc.. pros and cons.. lamp life, costs of lamps, etc..etc..

Thanks !

Riker

3-4k for projector? You should be able to get a good midline for 1500-2K. Also 2k for the screen? DYI for much less($500?) with reflective paints and such freeing up the savings for the A1400

Honestly, I have no idea as to projectors and screens. I just think we need another person to review the A1400.

Panasonic PT-AE2000U $2699

http://www.projectorpeople.com/projectors/projdtls.asp?itemid=23154

Carada Criterion Series about $900 for 126" diagonal

http://www.carada.com/DLP-Screen-Criterion-Projection-Screens-1-78.aspx

I have the older version of the projector (PT-AE900U, which is not even 1080p) and a 126" Carada Screen, and I love them.

Send me your savings...

For the budget, you can get a really nice 1080p setup. I'm running a Sanyo Z3 which is 720p with a Carada 104" screen. Sirquack has a Z2 with a DIY screen (can't remember the size). Mine is in "HDTV" format, where his is wider. If I had to do it over again, I would go with an even wider screen as well.

Check out Projector Central for equipment reviews, specs, prices, and find out what others are using.

Yup, I've got the Z2 with a 130" diag. 2.35 ratio screen. If I ever get the itch to look at 1080p projectors, Sanyo will definately be on my list, great pojectors and a leading 3 yr warranty with 2-3 day turnaround.

The Epson 1080 UB has been getting great reviews, same with the Panasonic PT AE200U.

This is also a great article comparing some of the hot new 1080p projectors available.

I recently did a lot of research on projectors as I was in the market. My research is now close to 2 months old but I don't hink many new models have appeared in my price category.

First off, as mentioned, you can get a truly Excellent projector for the 2 to 3 thousand dollar range. To jump to the next tier of noticeable quality, you will have to go well beyond 5k. However, many of the 2-3k projectors are doing 1080p with as good of reviews as the crazy expensive models. So I agree, you actually get to save a couple of grand here.

After a lot of research, my personal top picks were.

#1 Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 1080p UB (ultra black)
#2 Panasonic PT-AE2000u

tied for #3
Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 1080p
Mitsubishi HC4900

I ended up going with the Epson 1080p (not the UB version).
Why, simply a matter of pricing. All are outstanding projectors and although the UB was my number 1 choice, Epson was offering $300 dollars and a free bulb, at that time, for the non UB version that was still one of the most respected in in it's price range. That's like 650 to 700 off.

Since you have the budget and then some, I'd go for the Epson 1080 UB or the Panny. Whichever offers the best deal.

I agree with the screen suggestions. From my research, painting a screen is not for the feint of heart but can give you good results if you find the right formula for your room and can apply it carefully.

I wasn't going to spend more than $500 to $700 dollars for my screen. Again it was the law of diminishing returns. Excellent quality can be found in that price range and to get only marginally better required upping the price into the thousands.

I like DIY projects so in the end, I went with Wilsonart "Designer White" Laminate for screen material and I'll be building a wooden frame covered in a black velvety material. Do some searching and you will find many posts on AV forums of people having great luck with this $100 dollar solution. I found at least one article where it was measured for gain and color and came out as good or better than many of the purchased screens in the 500 to $700 price range.

If you want something you can just hang, then Carada, Draper and Tribal were on my short list. I have to plug Tribal Screens here because they wer SUPER helpful answering all my questions. Top notch pre-sales service! I felt guilty for going the DIY route after they were so kind to me.

I'd suggest reading some articles on room brightness and screen gain in order to choose your screen color. This is the most important decision you can make here. Basically, in a dark, light controlled room, a white screen will give you more vibrant colors. However, if you have windows or like a bit of light on while you watch TV, a grey screen will give you much better contrast and your blacks will not look so faded.

There are some good reads on this topic and screen companies are usually able to make recommendations if you contact them.

My head is still full of semi useful information from my research, so if you have questions, ask away, before it gets lost in there.

Andrew

The good thing about going with one of the budget projectors that are suggested above is that you can also get an anamorphic lens. If you have about $4k to work with you might just be able to squeeze all of that in, except for the screen.

- Nick

but he says the budget is 5 - 6 K

Have a look at SMX screens

On the projector - I think the Epson Home Cinema 1080 UB or the Panny PT-AE2000U are excellent choices (from all the reviews on line). In terms of screen - all depends on if you want motorized vs. free-standing. The free-standing is less money, motorized maybe a bit more elegant and out of the way. I think for free-standing Carada looks great. For motorized - check out Elite Screens - great value. If you got the space, etc. for an anamorphic - heck go the distance.

In terms of where to buy - I highly recommend ProjectorPeople.com. They come recommended by Axiom, and I've been working w/ Todd there about potentially pulling the trigger on my own setup. Excellent service. Prices are good too. Talk to them over the phone - the prices are lower than just going through the website.

Also, on a side note - ProjectorPeople sells Axiom products now - which is pretty cool.

I've been thinking about a projector for my place but I'm curious as to how a projector compares to my Sharp LCD TV. Are colours from a projector just as vibrant or is the main reason to get a projector just for the size?

As well I can't figure out how I would actually connect my HD Cable and HTPC to the projector which would be sitting about 9 ft away. Do they make HDMI cables that long (well actually longer since it would have to trace up on the ceiling more than likely)?

There should be no problem getting an anamorphic lens then.

- Nick

from what i've seen, the colors are just as good. One of the issues of using a projector over LCD is ambient light. If your tv is used in a fairly well lit room, a projector is not a good choice. Projectors are a good choice for Dedicated theaters where lighting is VERY dim to non-existant.

Hmm my condo is pretty bright with the blinds open. But at night it should be fine...ah well I'll just stick to rebuilding my HTPC.

I believe mdrew was very energized when he upgraded his screen - was it a Stewart brand?

Putting together a good combo of a projector, a dim room and the correct screen type and color to match your lighting conditions is key. If you get it all right, it can be quiet spectacular. Hi Def movies look as good as on a HD TV, just bigger.

So far, I have just had things up and running in a test environment as my rooms not done. The screen wasn't flattened to the wall and the walls are still all bright white drywall but I'm already amazed at the HD picture. I'll have a hard time watching TV again on a set, even on my 46" TV.

Projector Central
and
Their forums
Have a lot of great screenshots. A lot of users post some really well captured pictures of their screens so you can get a look at the quality of the colors and picture.

It's VERY important to match the right gear to the job. A poor projector will give you artifacts, be too dull, to dim or produce an annoying 'screen door' effect. The wrong color screen for your room type can really limit the quality you will see. The wrong choice of beer, and the evening is ruined. Oops, wrong thread.

Thank you so much everyone.. special thanks to Andrew.. I might throw a few questions your way while it's fresh

It seems a bit tricky to get all the proper piece of the puzzle ie: projector, screen, room lighting, beer.. But if all the planets do align, I get the impression that it is as good as any hd tv (lcd, plasma) but in much bigger size.

thanks again guys !

Steph

To reinforce some of the recommendations here:
I recently upgraded from a Sanyo Z5 to an Epson Home Cinema 1080UB. Significant step up in PQ and I really appreciate the flexibility that the increased brightness provides. Although I have a totally light controlled HT there are times (sports, etc.) when being able to watch with the lights on is nice. I bought both projectors from Quebec Acoustics (Canadian warranty and very competitive). I am using a 110” Carada BW 16:9 screen.

Wait until you see Blu-ray on a 100" plus screen. The wife and I rarely go out to the movies anymore because the cinemas here in Calgary suck. My home system (118" Carada BW screen, Panasonic PT-AE2000, Denon AVR-3808CI, and a slew of Axiom's) out performs them all. Xbox 360 also looks amazing.

I second Quebec Acoustics and recommend either the Epson Home Cinema 1080UB or the Panasonic PT-AE2000. The Panasonic has powered zoom and focus plus an amazing colour management system. The Epson has less bells and whistles but better blacks--depending on who you talk to. Canada screens are nice. They're made in the US so not duty on getting into the country. I had a much more expensive Da-Lite and sold it off because it wasn't half the screen the Carada was.

The only draw back of a projector is hours of operation. A good bulb on average lasts only 2000 hours. If you use the projector to watch lost of TV, then you'll spend lots of money on extra bulbs and perhaps a new projector after on a couple years. But if you use it just to watch movies, play a game or two and enjoy a play-off game or two, then a projector is a real treat.

Bottom line: If you have a good room for it, bigger is deffinately better.

Another vote for the Epson 1080UB. Amazing projector at a very reasonable price. The Panasonic mentioned above also got great marks and was my #2 projector choice.

On screens, I have a 92" fixed screen from Elite. It cost < 500 delivered and produces a very high-quality image. I thought briefly about painting a screen but it sounded like too much work with a high possibility of error (especially with my skill level).

To the questions above regarding quality... a 1080P image on Blu-Ray is absolutely stunning. The quality looks as good as any LCD or DLP TV I've seen.

Hey guys, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. I have owned the Panasonic PT-AE700U (720P) and the PT-AX200U (720P). I recommend the PT-AX200U even though it is only 720P. It was reviewed as a "Poor Man's 1080P" projector with the only difference being seen in lettering.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ax200u_home_theater_projector.htm

While I understand this is not a "Poor Budget", I am recommending this projector do to light output. This is a MUCH brighter projector and has a fantastic picture with lights on and a couple of windows in the back. It is more for a "Media Room" instead of a dedicated theater. Going with this projector would also enable maybe an upgraded finish on the speakers, definitely the A1400, move to the EP600 and still have the ability to use the wider screen and purchase the anamorphic lense. I know I don't post much but this would be a fantastic set-up that doesn't break the bank and can be watched in any light situation.

If at all possible try to get an anamorphic lens. About 95% of movies are shot in approximately 2.35:1 ratio. The lens allows you to fill up your entire screen with the movie and no black bars (which also lowers the overall brightness?). Unless you are okay with the black bars or strange stretching of the picture so that people are either fat or skinny. Man, I wish they made 2.35:1 plasma's. Aren't plasmas supposed to be for movies? Well, why no 2.35?

- Nick

I’m partial to Panasonic, but that certainly doesn’t mean they are the best. I’ve had two now and both have been 100% trouble free. I’m not a lucky consumer, so considering my experience and luck; I think that says something about Panasonic’s projectors. I currently have a PT1000 and am looking at replacing it within the next six months, but I’m not sure what I’ll buy at this point. The projector that I would like to get is the JVC RS2, but with an MSRP of $7995, it may be too much of a stretch for me. The RS2 can be found for about $5500….still pretty high when considering how well the Panasonic PT2000, Epson 1080 and Sony VLP-VW40 perform at half the cost.

Two things the PT2000 has going for it that the others don’t….1) extremely flexible installation needs. 2) you can tweak the hell out it without having to hack into the service menu. Regardless of that, I think you’ll be very happy with either the PT2000 or Epson 1080. You just need to figure out if they have the options and functionality you want. If you do want to go with a constant image height set up, the PT2000 and RS2 both have a vertical stretch feature. I am not sure if the Epson has this or not and if it is limited to a specific resolution.

Screen selection is pretty important. You can go the whole DIY route, but I’d recommend just buying one and saving yourself some frustration. They are a pain in the ass to do….and you won’t end up with a high gain DIY screen, which is what you will want to get some more punch out of the projector. (there are no 1080P light cannons out yet, so you need some gain to compensate). If there will be ambient light in the room, you will want a grey or silver screen to help reject ambient light, but you’ll want to find one with a positive gain (some are negative). If your room is completely light controlled, go with a white screen. I use a Stewart Firehawk screen and love it. I can watch movies or sports with the lights on or the shades open, but it still works very well with the room dark. But, if I had no intention of ever using lights, I’d have gone with Da-lite High Power screen. The High Power gets great reviews everywhere. It has a gain of 2.8 that really gives images some pop, but that comes with a penalty…..a reduced viewing cone of 30 degrees. If you plan to have seats fairly wide, do the math and figure out what your viewing angle is. Another consideration is where you are going to mount the projector. High Gain screens are reflective, and some work with the projector mounted above them and others with the projector at seat level.

Personally, I think the Epson 1080UB is a light cannon. (but I still completely agree regarding the DIY screens -- way too much effort for me)

Have you tried making a masking system for your plasma? The Black bars on my DLP were driving me crazy so I got some rigid black cardboard from Walmart, cutting and taping it to make pieces that would fit over the black bars when watching 2.35:1 movies.

Just a thought

So you covered the black bars with black bars?

Double censorship!

Yup! Just the same way people with projectors and screens cover theirs with masking systems. In my room only the stucco ceiling and me (gotta get a ninja suit) aren’t blacked out so the bars are very distracting since the DLP doesn’t get as black as the curtains around it. It really does make a huge difference in perceived PQ by masking them out.

I didn't really understand why people would want to do the 'covering black bars with black bars' thing until I saw the Carada masking system in action. For some reason somebody smarter than me can explain it really does make a difference. Almost because the texture is different or something? Anyway, I was quite impressed when I saw it in person - it really adds to the picture / your focus on the picture.

Thanks everyone.. so that does mean that 95% of movies watched on a Epson 1080P UB projector will have black bars ? and if don't want those black bars I have to get a different lens ($$$) ? Can't I get a screen size / width that will make the movies fill up the entire screen and still make regular tv watchable ?

this is getting a bit confusing.. even for someone as technical as I am..

I've explained to my cousin that the 2 factors for a projector are: 1. light control, ie: you'll be watching movies in the dark, or almost dark. and 2. not designed for watching 40 hour of Oprah with one or two movies thrown in on Saturday night..this is not suited for heavy load of regular tv watching.. get an LCD or Plasma if that's the case..

am I right ? or am I wrong ? projector seems to need a "dedicated" room with lighting control and is 90% or more made for movies, lamps are expensive ($350 approx) and last about 2000 hours. Most projectors under 4K put out about 1000 up to 1800 lumens.. while those in the under 10K put out up to 2800 lumens..and then if you have 50K ..up to 10000 lumens..at least that is what I got from that great article that was linked in a previous response to my post by PtRyno.. Thanks..

Riker

KPCrimson,

I'm glad to hear you recommend the Panasonic PT-AX200U. I just ordered one. I had originally purchased an Epson 1080UB that I'm sure I would have been perfectly happy with. However, my wife started to get very nervous of the amount of money I was spending since I am starting a HT from scratch (no current equipment). Since I was not willing to downgrade the audio portion, we decided a good compromise was to return the Epson projector and exchange it for the Panasonic AX200U (720p).

We both researched the 720 vs. 1080 issue and we both basically came to the same conclusion...that the 720 projector will suit our needs very well. We are planning to use either a 92 or 100 inch screen, which I've come to realize in the world of projection is quite small. Our seating will be about 13 to 14 feet from the screen, so the image quality should be excellent. If we could do a larger screen, or if we were going to be sitting closer, I'd probably insist that we go with 1080 (which I've heard is better resolution if you plan to go larger and/or sit closer to the screen). The only real drawback is I will not get the full benefit of my blu-ray, but at a savings of nearly $1,500 on the initial setup cost, it's a reasonable trade off, IMO.

The way I figure it, the technology is always one step ahead of the market. Currently, most, if not all, HD content broadcast through cable or satellite is 720p. Over the next several years, the amount of 1080 content available will steadily increase. Our gamble is the cost of 1080p projectors will continue to go down as the market catches up and, in 2 or 3 years, we'll upgrade then. The gamble may not pay off, but from what I've read about the Panasonic, we are not going to be dissapointed.

Scott

All the suggestions are great choices.

A friend of mine and I went through a projector upgrade a year ago and we both settled on the JVC RS1 which also fits your budget. The RS2 came out last fall so prices on the RS1 have dropped accordingly. Its an incredible 1080p/24 performer with exceptional lumen output and very high contrast ratio. My friend has a bright room and he went with a 121" DaLite Hi-Matte White screen while I kept my 110" Vutec Silverstar. Another screen in your price range which matches well with that projector is the DaLite Hi Power.

I wish someone made a projector that did internal scaling to 2.35:1 for all sources. instead of purchasing an anamorphic lense. This would be schweet.

Well technically Robb, they do. You just zoom. But, you will still need a 2.35 screen.

It may be that I have a grey screen and watch movies in the dark (usually), but I don’t notice the bars that much. I do not expend 2.35 images that come across on SD-satellite. They look horrible to start out with, and when I expand them, they are not watchable. But for all other movies with a 2.35 ratio, I don't mind the bars at all (both vertical and horizontal). I suppose if I had a white screen and a projector with horrible black levels, they may be quite distractive.

The reason I went with 2.35 and an anamorphic lens was for the WOW factor. Not to get rid of bars. It’s pretty immersive to be sitting 12’ away from an 8’ image. You can get away with more screen width when the ratio is 2.35 verses 1.78 because the image height is the same. Only the width is more. It is more difficult on the eyes to be constantly moving them up and down to see an image than back and forth. Back and forth eye motion is a natural and fairly consistent thing that they do anyway. Up and down isn’t.

Don't get too bent out of shape over the max lumens spec. Even with my rather bright, non-dedicated (albeit dominated), living room (big windows, open doorways to kitchen and rest of house) I still have it on the darkest setting (probably around 400 lumens). You'd have to be watching TV outside on a sunny day to need 2800! I didn't really set it up this way to extend the bulb life, it just looked better on "Cinema Black" than the other settings ("Dynamic", the brightest, looks terrible).
Lamp life is generally listed as being between 2000-4000 hrs. Mine was rated as 3000 hrs max and is now over 3700 hrs (in 4 yrs), and I do use it as my primary TV (although I watch a lot less commercial TV these days; mostly movies, dvd shows and sports).

The reason for a 2.35:1 lens is so that the movie fills up the entire screen when watching 2.35:1 movies (90 to 95% of all the movies). This way you can purchase a 2.35:1 sized screen so that it is as large (height-wise) that you feel comfortable with. Going this route the screen will fill up most of you peripheral vision. When you come across a movie is shot it 16:9 or 4:3 you can just flip the anamorphic lens to pass through and you will see the movie at the same height with black bars on the sides. If you want to mask the sides then you can buy some inexpensive sliding curtains to cover the black bars rather than some expensive masking devise.

If you buy a 16:9 screen to watch movies on and try to have it so that it fills up most of your peripheral vision and is a good sized height (in 2.35:1) then when you watch a 16:9 movie the height will be much too overwhelming. It seems that it is more overwhelming for the screen to be too tall than to be too wide. We shouldn't have to move our head up and down to see the whole image but it is okay if the screen is wide enough to take up some of our peripheral vision.

A good way to see what height is comfortable for you is to go watch some blu ray's on 1080p tv (since you are planning on getting a 1080p). Try to watch a blu ray that is shot in 16:9, Crank is one example. Move the seat up as close as you can so that the height seems like a big but comfortable size for you. Just the height not the width. Now measure the height of the screen and the distance that you are sitting away from the screen. If you divide the distance away by the screen height you should get some number between 1.5 and 4, call it x. Now that you know x, you can figure out how big of a screen that you want in your room once you know where you are going to sit. This is found by dividing the distance away from the screen by x. Just make sure that you measure everything in the same units (inches for example). Now that you know your screen height for the 2.35:1 screen you can get the width by multiplying it by 2.35. This is the dimensions of the screen for your room.

- Nick

Thanks Nick,

Lot's to chew on.. It's starting to sink in.. but I am still slightly unsure about how to determine the screen height and widgth ratio..vs the projector capabilities etc.. the projectors that fit my budget are the Epson UB1080 or the Panasonic model..neither have the anamorphic lens as far as I know.. so is that whole 2:35.1 ratio a moot point because of that ?

95% of movies are in a ratio that unless you have anamorphic lens you can't watch without black bars.. side or top.. depening on the screen dimensions.. if I get it right.

so given that black bars seemed to me in my future no matter what, given 95% movies require the special lens my choices don't have, to fill a screen of matching ratio..

What screen ratio / dimension should I be looking at ?

Riker,

You said originally that you could spend as much as $6000 for the projector and screen. Well a quick search found the Epson 1080ub for $3000 or less.
Link: http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/projectors/m/60743099/

An anamorphic lens doesn't come with most projectors and is about $2000. That leaves $1000 for the screen. It is easy to find a good one for that price. If you do a diy one then you will probably have quite a bit of that $1000 left. I think that sirquack did a 2.35:1 screen diy but can't remember for sure. Maybe he will be around to say if this is difficult or not.

As far a picking the screen height for your seating distance in your theater I'll try to explain it again since maybe it was confusing the first time. All that you have to do is find some 1080p display that you can view a blue ray on that was shot in 16:9. Move a distance away so that you like the distance away from the display height-wise. Divide the height away from the screen by the height of the 1080p screen that you are viewing and get some number between 1.5 and 4 (probably around 3 or 4 but you may like sitting close). Now, decide how far that you want to sit away from the screen in your room (measured in inches). Take your distance away from the screen that you want to sit and divide it by that number you found that was between 1.5 and 4. This is your screen height that you want in inches. If you multiply it by 2.35 then you get the width of the screen in inches. Now you have the dimensions of the 2.35:1 screen for your room.

- Nick

Riker,

If you google projectorcentral, on their opening page they have 2 articles that explain the differences in aspect ratio's. One of the article has actual pictures of images on various screens, so you can see what they look like, and make the best choice for what suits you, depending on what you are going to project on the screen. I hope this helps. It helped me.

Myles

Another procector worth mentioning is the JVC RS1X. It replaced the RS1 with some improvements and a lower MSRP than the RS2. I've been researching that unit and it looks like it might just be the one I go with. I also like the Sony VW60 which is about the same price.